Cost of gas vs cost of Friendship?

Wow--7 pages in 2 days.

I'm in the camp that doesn't share the cost of fuel unless it comes up (and it always seems to). Most of our "guest trips" are short hops with time on the hook. When they offer to pay, I let the guests know that we would have gone anyway and are glad to have them, end of story. If they push money into my hand at that point, I don't argue it, but that happens less than a tenth of the time.

In your situation, I think I would pull the guy aside and politely discuss it with him. You will either become better friends or find that he's not worth hanging with anyway.
 
As far as the charter business goes, I don't think there's any harm in splitting costs in a boat or an airplane, from a legal stand point. If you profit from the event, that's a different story!
 
My original thought is to post "+8" or whatever the number is now for TimC's post, but there's so much more to this thread. Good topic and thought-provoking. We do juggle & budget expenses to enjoy our lil' cruiser. This thread has made me rethink some things and I appreciate it.

In the past, we've had other couples stay with us onboard for a weekend. Yes, even in a little 230 Sundancer - we know them VERY well, LOL! I've fueled with them onboard and freely accepted their help with the gas tab. (As I am sure you can imagine, a weekend on the water with just a 50 gal tank doesn't last long so there's no getting around a refuel with guests onboard). My thought was, it is expensive after all, and we're giving them a good time. I'd never ask, but obviously if we need to refuel during the weekend, sometimes it's gonna come up: and if so - sure, I'd accept your money.

After reading this thread I'm looking at myself through a different mirror and I don't think I'd feel right ever receiving gas money again. These are friends we invite to share our fun with, not customers we charge an admittance fee to ride our amusement park.

Back to the subject of the original post, I agree with a lot of the wisdom dispensed here. I'm not too sure those are friends and if they really are that mercenary and manipulative, I'd advise reading the books "Boundaries" and "Safe People" to learn how we don't need jerks like that for friends and to move on with no guilt. Then again, if you're gonna move on anyway, it wouldn't hurt to at least let them know why. Who knows, maybe they are simply clueless and just need someone to take them to the mirror and make them look at themselves.... you could be doing them a favor to bring this up.

Great topic, and relevant with the fuel costs this year.
 
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We don't go boating with peole who can't afford their boats. That's not because we think about it. It's just because our friends tend to buy what they can afford. We go boating on some pretty small boats with friends some of whom own can boats. Some own large Vikings. The subject of money never comes up. If a person would ask for help with the gas bill, I'd probably chip in. We just do not keep track of this kind of stuff because we think it's kind of tacky. When we invite friends aboard for a boat ride, it's because we are going boating and want the company. If their funds are short I even spring for dinner and gladly acccept a round of drinks. Life is too short to worry about who owes what.
 
Alex F said:
Doug,
This guy is being impudent fellow instead of your friend and you were too nice and forgot to stand up for yourself by reminding him that you deserved a free pass since you took your boat on the same cruise twice and you paid for fuel.
This situation is very simple to understand what kind of people these are. You might have a sort of explanation when non-boaters come on your boat and don’t chip in for fuel if not asked. But, that’s b/c they don’t understand how much was just spent. Since these guys are boat owners that puts them only in category of a@@halls. I doubt you can call them your friends. With our friends we pretty much know in advance what to expect and most of the time we don’t have to ask. Most of our friends are not boaters but they never come empty handed as a common courtesy.

If the situation really bugs you, next time you see these “your friends” pull the guy to the side and ask “hey dude what was the deal the other day with the fuel money? If you forgot, you owe me for two rides, but since you’re my “friend” I didn’t ask. Most likely now it’s a good time.”
I’m sure you’ll find your own words (perhaps much better) to deliver the message, but you get the idea. Just b/c you were being a nice guy and didn’t want to spoil anyone’s pleasant day on water that doesn’t mean you have to be screwed over by anyone.

I don’t know the depth of your relationship with these people, but since there was another couple there you probably did the right thing. But, don’t let it just go. Have a “side bar” with the guy to make sure you’re both satisfied, if you’re planning to maintain the relationship, otherwise do whatever is needed to make sure you’re satisfied.

Just my opinion.
Alex.
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I'm with Alex 100% If this guy was a non boater friend than no way ask for money, BUT this knuckle head never gave you a nickel on your boat rides, never treated for dinner, he know's what the real cost's are for running your boat AND THEN he has the nut's to ask you for money?? You need new friends. Let me guess.... he probably brought a 6 pack and drank a 12 pack and thought he was paying his way.
 
I am in the camp of not accepting anything from guests that we invite aboard...if they bring anything with them that is fine. My family and I are going to enjoy the boat anyway and sometimes it is great to have others aboard to entertain them as well.

I feel for you in this situation and would rethink time spent with them boating in any way in the future...no way would they EVER find themselves on my boat again.

One thing not mentioned in all of this is the reaction of the other guy that had that bomb dropped on him at the fuel dock...imagine being a non-boater with no real concept of how much it costs to run one of these beasts and arriving home from a great outing and finding yourself at the fuel dock and being extorted out of a hundred bucks with no notice!

Imagine if the guy's wife had no knowledge of this crazy transaction and why the ladies find this relationship to have cooled off a bit and why??!!?? She might very well be mortified to know what he had done!

Both of you have grounds for being upset with this dufus. I hope that in the future he gets it why no one will go out with he or his wife.

All in all, this guy is whacked out and has no social skills whatsoever to drop this kind of thing on his "friends".

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, and I feel for you and the other guy (and the wives) in this awkward situation!
 
It could be worse you could have Kids that do the same & invite all their friends & drink your booze & think your a ATM :smt089
 
I bought a boat to have fun. Fun usually includes inviting another family along. Because I'm inviting them, I don't expect them to chip in for fuel. I DO expect them to bring along their own snacks, refreshments, sunscreen, etc, and I make that clear when we make plans.

I never ask for fuel money, and graciously decline their offer ONCE. If they insist, I politely accept. As may others have said, I'd be out on the boat whether they came along or not, and to be honest, I enjoy sharing a day on the water with people I like. Generally that's payment enough.........

Paul
 
I once took this girl on the boat for the weekend and I paid for the fuel, dockspace, as I cleaned she sun bathed and I paid all her meals...When we got back to my home dock, can you believe she asked me for money...kidding....Anytime I have taken a friend/s out on the boat for the day, they always ask what they can bring. If we go away for a weekend or night, I never pay for a meal or drinks.....Just courtesy! I once had a friend who would go to the bathroom everytime the bill would come or would never buy a round of drinks.....Once again just respect and courtesy
 
I had a friend invite us to dinner, as his guest, at PF Chang's. They were packed, so we went to the Steak House next door. He got really drunk. My wife was extremely embarassed. I paid $250. We never mentioned it. He's very generous. Just a fun story now.
 
rondds said:
as a caveat to this topic, at our marina, we have gotten into the habit of "boat-pooling," or what we have termed "Nealing" (named after Neal, a guy no longer at our marina who never took his boat out but constantly invited himself on other's boats). the difference here is, usually the owner of the boat going for the ride is either looking for crew or company. sometimes the wives come along, sometimes they dont. sometimes the kids come, some times they stay at the pool. but if i had to quantify things, it is pretty darn even as to how many times each of us has "Nealed."

it all evens out in the end - the host usually offers the customary "docking beer" at the end and no one passes a hat. :thumbsup:
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Now that's funny. We have a similar thing with a friend Craig who "always bought last time" or "Can you get it? I only have a $50 and don't want to break it. I'll get it next time".

So to the topic - this guy has brass balls. I'm in the camp of I never ask for fuel money. If I can't afford to go out, the boat doesn't go out. I invite friends and acquaintances whom I might like to make friends out on my dime because I want to enjoy their company. When asked about fuel costs I simply deflect. When pressed, I tell them to pick up some beer and food.

Invariably the cost of boat ownership comes up after a sixer or two. By this time my lips tend to be a little looser and we cover the various costs of ownership, including fuel. The conversation is summed up with the thought that this is our entertainment and a vacation every weekend that we really like to share this fun with our friends. That usually stems future cash attempts.

The only time I can recall being willing to accept a tank of fuel from someone was when a friend of ours called and asked if we would take her visiting family of six out for the weekend. She offered to pay for the fuel for the day. The offer was enough for me. In the end, I had already filled up the tank and never stopped for fuel so no payment was made.

John
 
This is NOT my boat, but similar: Buy a used Sea Ray that is a couple of years old for 170,000 after some repairs/improvements. Put 20,000 down. Loan is 150,000 for 15 years at 6.5%, and you owe $1300/mo. Sell for 120,000 after 5 years (big guess). Loan pay out is 115,000. Pocket 5,000. Cost so far: 15,000 cash, 78,000 in payments.

Interest was about 43,475. Tax write off (30%) = 13,000. Insurance is 2500/year (highly variable). Docking 5,000/year (highly variable). Service: 2,000/year plus bottom paint - 75/mo. Cleaning bottom 70/month.

Gas - 100 hours/year. Average 15 mph (docking, cruising fast, cruising slow) and 1 mpg = 1500 gallons or, roughly $6,500/year.

Boat costs for 5 years:

Boat 93,000
Tax -13,000
Net 80,000 For 1 year, 16,000

Per year:
Boat 16,000
Ins 2,500
Gas 6,500
Dock 5,000
Maint 3,000 (everything)

Total 33,000/year, or 330/hour.

Fixed Costs (regardless of use) 26,500/year or $265/hour.
Variable Costs (gas) 6,500/year or $65/hour. If crusing long ranges, gas goes to $130/hour due to fuel flow increasing to 30 gph. If cruising slow (we like hosting dinner cruises for our friends), gas is about $20/hour.

My costs are quite a bit less in some areas, and more in others. I do my own bottom cleaning $900/year. My dock is on an AF installation - save 3500/year. I do a lot of my own maintenance, but I still have put a lot into the boat for extended warranties, prop tuning, Strong seals, speakers, amps, HUGE canvas expense...

I've always thought that my 340 cost around $235/hours. I think it's quite a bit more than that. The difference between this an a twin engine airplane is that once we get to our destination, we have just begun to spend time on the boat. The time is gone on the airplane, and now you need a car, hotel, place to go...

We generally run our boat on 4 long trips/year (50 - 70 miles), and spend 1 or 2 nights a week on it. So, actual time on the boat is 75 days, 1,650 hours. 33,000/1650 = 20 bucks an hour FLAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Somebody's surely having a slow day at the office....:grin:
 
This looks like a good candidate as a last page of "Boat Breafing" :lol:

Nice write up John. I just have to hide it from admiral :lol:
 
I know this may have already been brought up, but thought Iwould throw 2 cents in. Although rarely prosecuted or even ticketed for, without a Captains license (charter License) you can not except money for anything. You can have them buy the gas or dinner or drinks etc. I called the Coast guard and they stated the same thing. As long as you do not except money then you are fine. The coast Guard also said that it was very unlikely that they would ever ticket someone for this.

Craig
 
I feel you acted as "the better man".
You did pitch in and avoided any kind of sceen.

Now since you now know how they operate, the next time they want to go out with you though, mention - before you go out - that since you already pitched in when you went out on their boat that you feel you should expect the same.
And that you want to make sure that is OK with them "before" you go out.
If they don't agree....... then don't take them out. Say, sorry, but what's fair is fair and they started setting the preference..
And if they agree, you will at least get your $100 back and you will be even again.

I always have the boat full of fuel and get a pump out ahead of time to avoid this situation. And I've never ask for or received any money for gas. It is my toy and my entertainment.

Lee
 
TimC said:
Take the higher road and don't even bring it up. Next time he invites you on the boat just decline and say your taking you're boat out and don't invite him. He may get the message, he may not. If you go back at him and ask for $ from the first two trips, in his head you become the jerk even though he is.

Let him ponder all of the reasons you don't invite him on the boat anymore and why you decline to go on his. That will drive him more crazy than anything else.:lol:
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This is the way I’m going to handle the situation.

Its just the right way for us. Thank you Tim.

Green I approve points for you along with a personal “Thank You”

Thank you everyone for your replies.
 
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