School Shooting

[tdschafer]

I worry every day, you see my wife does deal with these folks every day. This year she was required to take a take down class for one of her students. So far the student has bit her, pulled her earrings out, groped her...the list goes on. She takes it all in stride and understands these kids needs, me, I just worry! The officer at the school is one of my best friends and I know he's there for her but he's the only one there I trust. The admin is worthless, over paid chair cushions. Before my youngest was born she had a student threaten to cut the baby out of her, and brought the knife to do it. That administrator did nothing until I stepped in and had her press charges. She works with these kids every day, when parents need help and ask her for it, she can usually find it. Some, not all, parents use the school system as their babysitting service, they do not give support and they are no help when it comes to discipline. The boat and wine relieve her stress and I keep both ready for her at all times. Do we need to support the parents of these kids, hell yes! But let's not forget to support all of those who work with these folks day in and day out. With this post I'm not looking for pity for my wife, just understanding and a chance for me to vent some.

I believe that this is called S.C.I.P. training or as we called it "Skip training". You can read up on it here:
http://www.sjcoe.org/PDF/SCIP-R.pdf

I am a Physical Therapist with a pediatric specialty. I have worked in schools, hospitals and outpatient facilities. I have treated all ages but as a pediatric PT you basically are focused on birth to 21 years of age.
Your reference brought back a rather fond memory for me. Once, while working in a hospital pediatric outpatient facility, I was given a patient from a neighboring Residential Home for disabled children. As it turns out this boy, I'll call him Larry, was 18 years old and 6'2" and 245 lbs. Apparently he had episodes where he would become violent etc. Well, anyway he comes to me for an orthopaedic ailment and I am left alone by the aide who had to hurry back to the group home as they were short handed. I remember looking at this fellow and thinking "WTF do I do if he goes off?"
So I just flat out told him. "Hey Larry, I understand that you have some outburst issues. I have to let you know that I am not Skip trained but, I am street trained. That means if you decide to go off in my office I am not going to try and wrestle you down without hurting you. On the contrary, I will knock you out like I would in any other street fight and we will sort it out when you wake up. Do you understand what I am telling you?" He acknowledged that he did and we went on with the treatment.

Do you know I saw this young man for quite a while for one ailment or another and never had an issue with him! He was actually quite nice to me and well behaved in my facility! I don't know if he was scared, although I am a bit smaller than he was, or if he respected my frankness and knew that I meant it. I should also state that I was never in fear that he had access to a weapon as he was closely monitored in a group home setting. I did get to meet his mother who verified his violent tendencies at home which ultimately led to this placement.

 

[dwna1a]

Todd, thank you, I couldn't remember the name of the class.
Four Suns, welcome back! And yes she is in W/JCC
BritLady, she followed in her mothers foot steps, she loves to teach these kids. Many want to learn, they want the education. Main stream kids it's like it's a burden to be there.

Folks, she loves to teach and she loves her kids. She is endorsed and a grad from W&M. She did many hours of her classes at Eastern State Hospital, until the State cut that program. She's never been in it for the money and that's good, teachers here haven't seen a raise in pay for over 5 years, she does is for the kids and the reward of watching them learn.

 

[sdarc]

My wife is getting close to her 30yrs. in education. She has had to deal with these "special needs" through out her career. Though it seems more prevelent lately. There have been a few times that she felt unsafe. Fortunately, it was handled before anything happened. Some have even come back and thanked her for "getting their heads straight". Some can't be helped.

Just so you all know, my wife is a Family Consumer Science teacher. That's Home Economics to us older folks. She is not a Special Needs teacher. All teachers today have to deal with these kids. some more than others.

What ever happened to the "short bus"?

 

[northern]

I first flew on commercial flights when there was no security. People had guns to hunt. A double barrel shot gun was all you needed to hunt ducks. When semi action shot guns came along we felt the sport had gone to heck as it was so simple. Now you can get a gun with a 30 shot clip and it is considered normal. Do not think it is used for ducks. Protection was wearing a life preserver in a boat when you were a child. Parents stayed together and taught their children right from wrong. Police were respected. Marriage vows now seem to be until something better comes along. Children need guidance from the start until their parents are old. My children are grown and educated. They still visit and ask for advice they also now give it. It seems correct. Perhaps if we reached out to children that need guidance things might change to safer times, sell guns for hunting and leave 30 shot clip guns to the police and military.

 

[tdschafer]

My wife is getting close to her 30yrs. in education. She has had to deal with these "special needs" through out her career. Though it seems more prevelent lately. There have been a few times that she felt unsafe. Fortunately, it was handled before anything happened. Some have even come back and thanked her for "getting their heads straight". Some can't be helped.

Just so you all know, my wife is a Family Consumer Science teacher. That's Home Economics to us older folks. She is not a Special Needs teacher. All teachers today have to deal with these kids. some more than others.

What ever happened to the "short bus"?

These are the days of inclusion my friend! Ain't it grand? They do this for several reasons. First and foremost I believe it is economically driven as the Fed's reduce their aide to States the states in turn cut spending on "special" programs. Schools have decided it's best to have the special needs children integrated into regular classes. This is a huge cost savings.

There is also the PC society that we live in. A previous poster made a reference to parents wanting their child to receive the same education, that they are guaranteed by federal law, as other "normal" developing children. So schools , already driven by the dollar, try and integrate as many kids as possible into "normal" classes.

Now I am not saying that the entire special needs community should be isolated. On the contrary, I have seen first hand disabled children in the schools function quite well in the mainstream. The ones who flourish tend to be the socially adjusted ones with diagnosis' like Spina Bifida and Cerebral Palsy. If they are mildy affected they can do very well. The children who should not be "mainstreamed" are obviously the socially disenchanted behaviorally aggressive ones. These children day in and out will pose a threat to those around them and I have seen this first hand in the classroom. Everyone knows who these children are and the one on one aides of other kids around them function almost as shields in these classrooms to prevent the disruptive child from hurting the child in their charge.

My nephew is also autistic and I have seen some of his outbursts and what it is doing to my sister and her family. He is not Aspergers Syndrome but, the more invoved typical autistic presentation. So his intellegence is not like Adam Lanza's was but, more involved and compromised. Yet, he has been removed from a few schools already and he is only 5 y/o. He is very big for his age and I fear as he grows my sister will have no choice but to institutionalize him as a way of protecting her family as well as him too. It is definitely a tough situation for any parent to have to deal with. But, with that said my sister would not be teaching my nephew to shoot, stab, or harm things in any other manner because she understands the blow back that this could have on her immediate family as well as her community.

Adam Lanza's mother completely disregarded this fact and put people at risk and we have seen the tragic results of her misjudgement.

 

[K-DUB]

I worry every day, you see my wife does deal with these folks every day. This year she was required to take a take down class for one of her students. So far the student has bit her, pulled her earrings out, groped her...the list goes on. She takes it all in stride and understands these kids needs, me, I just worry! The officer at the school is one of my best friends and I know he's there for her but he's the only one there I trust. The admin is worthless, over paid chair cushions. Before my youngest was born she had a student threaten to cut the baby out of her, and brought the knife to do it. That administrator did nothing until I stepped in and had her press charges. She works with these kids every day, when parents need help and ask her for it, she can usually find it. Some, not all, parents use the school system as their babysitting service, they do not give support and they are no help when it comes to discipline. The boat and wine relieve her stress and I keep both ready for her at all times. Do we need to support the parents of these kids, hell yes! But let's not forget to support all of those who work with these folks day in and day out. With this post I'm not looking for pity for my wife, just understanding and a chance for me to vent some.

I agree with most of what you said. My wife has also been bitten, punched, spit on, etc. She also had to take the training of what you speak. The difference, she is an Elementary school Principal, or one of the over paid chair cushions as you refer to them, and she was protecting her teacher at the time(s) it happened. And from what I read the admin (Principal) in CT was killed trying to stop the animal in her school, so a little respect please.
I am going to give the benefit of the doubt that you did not mean that as a blanket statement, and leave it at that.

 

[northern]

My neighbour was a high school teacher. He retired in 1989 at 65. He died a month ago and a lot of his former students attended his funeral. They all had good things to say about him. He used to throw chalk at ones who were not paying attention and the bad boys he would make do 10 pushups at the front of the class. The bad girls he made them sing a song. Today he would go to gail for assault and and be sued for undue cruelity. The students that did pushups in his class and got hit with chalk all had good things to say about him at his funeral. One who owns a large buisines now was one that admitted to doing a lot of pushups and could remember being hit with chalk many times. Perhaps if teachers could still do this things would be better. No parents as far as I know ever complained about how he ran his class.

 

[alwhite00]

My neighbour was a high school teacher. He retired in 1989 at 65. He died a month ago and a lot of his former students attended his funeral. They all had good things to say about him. He used to throw chalk at ones who were not paying attention and the bad boys he would make do 10 pushups at the front of the class. The bad girls he made them sing a song. Today he would go to gail for assault and and be sued for undue cruelity. The students that did pushups in his class and got hit with chalk all had good things to say about him at his funeral. One who owns a large buisines now was one that admitted to doing a lot of pushups and could remember being hit with chalk many times. Perhaps if teachers could still do this things would be better. No parents as far as I know ever complained about how he ran his class.

I agree, Not many kids now have any respect for authority, They all think they "deserve" more than what they are getting. When I was in school (grad 86) they still had the paddle & the principal would use it. I got it once in 5th grade and never again - That's how you learn lessons. Nobody was ever "beat up" but a good smack on the @$$ never killed anyone.

BTW - Yes I have 2 kids 10 & 13 and am hopefully doing a good job on them.

LK

 

[susanandlance]

I first flew on commercial flights when there was no security. People had guns to hunt. A double barrel shot gun was all you needed to hunt ducks. When semi action shot guns came along we felt the sport had gone to heck as it was so simple. Now you can get a gun with a 30 shot clip and it is considered normal. Do not think it is used for ducks. Protection was wearing a life preserver in a boat when you were a child. Parents stayed together and taught their children right from wrong. Police were respected. Marriage vows now seem to be until something better comes along. Children need guidance from the start until their parents are old. My children are grown and educated. They still visit and ask for advice they also now give it. It seems correct. Perhaps if we reached out to children that need guidance things might change to safer times, sell guns for hunting and leave 30 shot clip guns to the police and military.

:thumbsup:

 

[dwna1a]

K-DUB, HER two, not all are just empty chairs. They are there to make the numbers look good. I didn't mean to upset you or to make everyone think that. Many of the principals I know do one hell of a job. The one before this one was the best, he didn't want to play in the rain deer games of local gov and moved on.....angain sorry to have upset you

 

[K-DUB]

K-DUB, HER two, not all are just empty chairs. They are there to make the numbers look good. I didn't mean to upset you or to make everyone think that. Many of the principals I know do one hell of a job. The one before this one was the best, he didn't want to play in the rain deer games of local gov and moved on.....angain sorry to have upset you

No worries, unfortunately everyone is on edge these days. With the educational system being treated as a bottomless well to be tapped whenever money needs to be cut, it's no wonder there is so much tension. Pay and benefit cuts seemingly at every quarter, Overcrowded classrooms, no budget money, kids being mainstreamed that need more help than can be provided. Combine that with some admins and teachers alike that have become disheartened and lost sight of what is important, the kids.
My wife is beaten down of late, she's all about the kids and most days feels like the minority. Over the years she was kicked and punched while pregnant, received written death threats when at the high school level. Gone to monthly blood tests due to bites. I'm sure we could trade stories all day over a cold one or two.
After hearing about all the selfless acts by the school staff in CT, it shows how dedicated our educators are and hopefully at least helps the world recognize them for what they are, the cultivators and protectors of our most valuable resource.

 

[MonacoMike]

Question and answer...

What ever happened to the "short bus"?

Parents need to recognize these problems and not demand their child be considered "normal" when they are not. .

 

[BritLady]

I first flew on commercial flights when there was no security. People had guns to hunt. A double barrel shot gun was all you needed to hunt ducks. When semi action shot guns came along we felt the sport had gone to heck as it was so simple. Now you can get a gun with a 30 shot clip and it is considered normal. Do not think it is used for ducks. Protection was wearing a life preserver in a boat when you were a child. Parents stayed together and taught their children right from wrong. Police were respected. Marriage vows now seem to be until something better comes along. Children need guidance from the start until their parents are old. My children are grown and educated. They still visit and ask for advice they also now give it. It seems correct. Perhaps if we reached out to children that need guidance things might change to safer times, sell guns for hunting and leave 30 shot clip guns to the police and military.

:thumbsup: Exactly! Just llike I said earlier "The Good Old Days" without the awful horrifc violent video games sold to children as entertainment today!

 

[Paladin]

Adam Lanzas mother shared her "Love of Guns" with her sociopath son and enabled him to take all of those innocent lives, including hers. It sounds to me as if she may have had a mental defect too.

Really. Hmm I Wonder if she'd been trained about gun storage...

 

[Carver370]

This has been a horrible tragedy. On top of this sickening situation I lost my best friend on Friday night in a horrific accident, we have decided to donate all contributions to his life in lieu of flowers to the victims of the shooting and their foundation. My 25 year old friend loved kids and I honestly feel he's chasing them around and making them feel more alive than ever Ina better place than this horrific world has become.

 

[tdschafer]

This has been a horrible tragedy. On top of this sickening situation I lost my best friend on Friday night in a horrific accident, we have decided to donate all contributions to his life in lieu of flowers to the victims of the shooting and their foundation. My 25 year old friend loved kids and I honestly feel he's chasing them around and making them feel more alive than ever Ina better place than this horrific world has become.

Ray,

I am sorry for your loss. These certainly are not happy times as of late. Its a very nice gesture donating in memory of your best friend to these other shattered families. May your friend rest in peace and may you find inner peace and comfort in these trying times to deal with your loss.

 

[MonacoMike]

This has been a horrible tragedy. On top of this sickening situation I lost my best friend on Friday night in a horrific accident, we have decided to donate all contributions to his life in lieu of flowers to the victims of the shooting and their foundation. My 25 year old friend loved kids and I honestly feel he's chasing them around and making them feel more alive than ever Ina better place than this horrific world has become.

Ray, So sorry to hear of your loss. You, all the fanily, and friends are in my thoughts and prayers.

MM

 

[jrseitz]

Ray, I am very sorry about the loss of your friend. The contribution your are making to all of the devastated families in Newtown is a wonderful act. May all those who were taken from us last week rest in peace.
Jim

 

[CV-23]

Welcome back Four Suns.

I couldn't be a teacher these days. I'm not a coddler and would have a hard time keeping my slapping some unruly kid upside the face when he came after me. I'd be in the principal's office on a daily basis.

Funny story about one of those 'troubled kids'. In the 80's when I was a cop I taught a "Law Enforcement" class at two junior highs in town. The class was supposed to be one for kids who had a interest in going into law enforcement, but it ended up being a place where the schools could park their troublemakers in the room for an hour. I taught the class every day in uniform.

One spoiled brat who I always had trouble keeping under control decided he'd do something really dumb one day. The school had those desks where the students slid their books in from the rear, not the kind where the desk top lifted up. Well this kid, who sat in the back row, had ripped up a bunch of paper and pushed it into the place where the books went. Then he was lighting matches and tossing them into the hole where the paper was. Needless to say the paper caught on fire and he was trying to put it out with his hands.

When the other kids around him started laughing at him I went back there to see what the commotion was. When I saw the flames I grabbed a fire extinguisher and put out the fire. Then I popped the kid up against the wall to pat him down. I found his matches and a lighter (which were prohibited in school) and a baggie of pot. I confiscated those, slapped the cuffs on him and arrested him for first degree arson (a very serious felony). You could have heard a pin drop.

I marched him down to the principal's office and handcuffed him to a chair and told them to keep track of him until I finished the class. The wimpy arse principal was yelling at me saying "You can't do that, this is a school." I left the kid there and went back to the class, returning to the principal's office after the class. I marched the kid through the school at class change time so all the kids could see him (a perp walk???) and put him in the cop car.

When all the dust settled, the kid pleaded guilty to a reduced arson charge and possession of the pot. I kind of kept an eye on him as he want through school and within a couple of years he found his way into prison. A fitting end to his school career.

Good for you! Our PO cuffs and stuffs them all the time here at school. The problem is the Judges send them back here. They should never reach a Court Room in some cases.

 

[CV-23]

Adam Lanzas mother shared her "Love of Guns" with her sociopath son and enabled him to take all of those innocent lives, including hers. It sounds to me as if she may have had a mental defect too.

Really. Hmm I Wonder if she'd been trained about gun storage...

It was reported she bragged at the Bar about her guns.....not sure that is true but not a good thing either. She armed a Monster and now we see the results.