Port engine smokin like a crematorium with two fat guys in it.

Steve!!!! I feel bad buddy! It has to get better soon!

Keep your head up. Maybe you can pass another plate around at church for some donations??

Doug
 
Thanks Doug,...I have a call into Obama.....surely they have some type of stimulus program for old Sea Rays. Funny thing is that I know refer to my diesel mechanic as "The Grim Reaper" every time I hear from the guy I loose a little more life.


Steve
 
Steve500dancer said:
Thanks Doug,...I have a call into Obama.....surely they have some type of stimulus program for old Sea Rays. Funny thing is that I know refer to my diesel mechanic as "The Grim Reaper" every time I hear from the guy I loose a little more life.


Steve
Click to expand...

Forget about Obama. You're part of that one percent they always refer to. He wants you to give more than you already do! :grin:
 
Steve, as a new diesel owner I'm trying to AVOID reading this thread. :smt101

I do wish you luck - maybe a winning lottery ticket is in your future to offset this current losing streak.

Not sure what you do for a living, but have you thought about stand-up comedy? You've got some good material here...:grin:
 
gerryb said:
Steve, as a new diesel owner I'm trying to AVOID reading this thread. :smt101

I do wish you luck - maybe a winning lottery ticket is in your future to offset this current losing streak.

Not sure what you do for a living, but have you thought about stand-up comedy? You've got some good material here...:grin:
Click to expand...


Steve, I have been reading along since spider man and duckbills and thinking what to say and gerryb's quote was fitting. That being said, I wish you were not going though this!!
I also am apersheative of you having the guts to go public for the good of the SeaRay comunity!

To the big block gas guys:
Upone lunching my boat by crane it weighted in at 41,000 pounds wet and before we moved our stuff into our secound home. Try pushing that around at 35 MPH with a pair of big blocks even 500 EFI's! Sometimes a man has to go big or go home. I do however relate to lack of cost or the cost of having to do it right.

WarrenG
 
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Same here Steve, very appreciative of you sharing your trials and tribulations and truly sorry to hear about all your pain and suffering. I hate to learn at someone elses expense but this has made it clear to me to not stop at the general advice often given of "have a qualified diesel tech work up your engines as part of the survey process". i, too, have had a recent diesel experience that although was not costly (only because I wasn't charged after I loudly complained), happened because the guy didn't know his a-- from a hole in the ground. I know I'll be asking more questions before, during and after and doing more ref checks on mechanics in the future. When I had my motors worked up by CAT I had my surveyor present as another set of eyes but I now realize I wasn't nearly as involved in the process as I should have been in terms of expectations and follow-up. Trust but verify comes to mind I guess.

Just curious, and maybe I missed this somewhere along the thread, but during your due diligence what did the service records or investigation into the service history turn up? were the rebuild and/or suspect maintenance issues discovered and/or disclosed?

Anyway, good luck with her. She'll be good as new shortly so you'll just then have to go have $20k's-worth of good fun! btw, I still think you need to move that big girl off that lake and to some bigger water where she can open up and breathe a little bit. We've got a covered '60 open on our pier...
 
Steve, I don't know you personally but I really feel for your misfortunes. Someday I would love to have a diesel boat but after reading through your heartaches it may be a while. Hang in there, it has to get better!
 
Steve: You are sure going through one hell of a life experience! Your story is giving me nightmares and probably everyone else that reads it! I honestly have to talk myself into reading this thread each day as I hate seeing you taking yet another hit from the grim reaper! I am sure everyone here really feels for you and what you are going through! From the bits you have written about your life here you are obviously a great guy and don't deserve to be beaten into the ground like this, every tough thing we go through makes us stronger and a better person in some way i believe anyways, im sure somehow in some way you will end up better off after all of this in the end ...maybe something like your boat engines will be in such great shape afterwards you will never have to worry again and face major repairs in the future and have a trouble free many many years on the water! So sorry this is all happening to you and really hope it abates soon and all changes for the better! Your story sure makes people realise how trivial the things they face are! Hang in there Steve like all things this too shall end! You have a whole community behind you here gunning for you to tear through this thing!
 
Thank you Searaydad and the rest of the well wishers. I really thought that I had done everything possible to ensure a quality survey. I new going in that the service had not been done on the boat in a couple of years. They said one year, so I doubled that. I was also told that the boat was sold in 05 to a guy that never ran the boat because he was a drunk and could not find his way to the captains seat. The previous owner to the rich drunk guy (now flat broke and deported) was meticulous in his service and had owned the boat since 1997. The motors were both rebuilt in 2003 at 613 hours (750 hours when I was surveying the boat) to an injector issue on the starboard engine that washed out two cylinders. The owner at the time had decided to overhaul both engines to ensure this would not happen again. When I sowed up to the boat I noticed that the boat was filthy and not what they had said it was. Mostly cosmetic stuff from sitting around. However, I was immediately told by my surveyor to try and look past the dirt to see what potential the boat had for the right price. My engine surveyor was on board and quick to tell me he was happy with what he had seen so far with the exception of the oil filters being dated June of 2007. After an hour or so the oat was sea trialled and all went well. We made it to the haul out site and the next thing I new the engine surveyor was packing up. He told me a couple of things such as the cooling system should be completely flushed and I had a leak at the starboard side blower that appeared to just be a seal. He also told me that our top RPM was 2000 and that was due to the dirty fuel in the system and that it will need filter changes. However, he was very comfortable with the way the ran and considering they had been rebuilt by Detroit Diesel I was in good shape with the exception of the fuel, oil leak and gauges not working accurately compared to his gauges. He apparently had a flight to catch and had to get to the airport and would have me my survey docs that night or in the morning. It took me several days of calling an begging for the paper work before I finally received it.

The survey consisted of two pages. The first page was numbers filled in with the gauge readings and the second page was a hand written recommendations page that listed the items from above with the exception of replacing hoses that were original. I asked this guy several times if we needed to do anything else. He was very confident in both motors and told me it was probably going to be about 7k in service and repair work.

The reason a person hires an engine surveyor is to make sure that you are not buying a boat with troubled engines with out knowing upfront to be able to negotiate the repairs into the deal. Or in most cases just walking away.

My broker hired both the boat surveyor and the engine surveyor. He said that he had used the haul surveyor before and he was great and that Florida Detroit Diesel is who we should use because they know the engines and have serviced this boat. The oil samples were done by the haul surveyor because the engine surveyor was going to be out of town. Those results were sent to the engine serveyor when they were finished as well as the haul surveyor and myself. Yes they did not cme back good. I was assured by the engine surveyor and another mechanic that I sent them to that the levels were elevated in due to the oil sitting and not being changed for 4 years. However, they were both happy that the oil samples did to show any water or antifreeze in either motor. They reccomended changing oil and filters and retesting in 50 hours to get a good base line.

We went back to the negotiating table and based on the engine and boat survey reccomendations renegotiated the price and put the deal together. Granted the deal was great on the boat and it was a big factor in my decision and we love the boat. However, I am sure I would have done more negotiating or walked away from it knowing one or both engines would possibly be in need of an overhaul.

It is what it is and now I have to decide on my course of action. I have spoken with my broker, Florida Detroit Diesel and the boat Surveyor (the guy that surveyed the motors will not return my call) my broker and the surveyor are behind me 100% and both kept telling me how much of a hurry the engine surveyor was in to get n a plane by 1:00pm. Next I will speak with Florida Detroit Diesel and see what they have to say again now that I have all the information. Then I will have to find an attorney in Jacksonville and get him rolling on this. Or I just pay up and chalk it up to good ole fashioned education.

Steve
 
So the oil sample didn't show high levels of iron or any coolant traces? the blow-by test was in spec as well?

I think I'd give some serious thought to having an attorney send them a formal letter. May be a long shot but You don't have anything to lose at this point.
 
Steve,
What does high iron usually indicate? If it points to your problum, hopefully you might have a strong case.

WarrenG
 
It was explained to me as a light coat of surface rust inside the motor from a lack of oil on the cylinder walls and other steel parts that loose the oil coating. When the engine was run after the boat sat for some time it would cause the rust to get into the oil as it is worn off the cylinder walls as the rings run up and down the cylinder walls. That made perfect sense to me when it was explained to me by the surveyor.


Steve
 
High iron indicates block/liner wear................but normal engine operation sloughs off some iron so there is going to be iron in any the oil sample. Since the oil in this case was very old, you would expect there to be high iron in the sample. That is why establishing a base line and doing regular fluid sampling is important. It allows you to look for and to monitor wear trends by watching the levels of key contaminants.

The normal course of action with engines known to have old oil in them is to recommend changing the oil and filters then putting them under normal operating conditions for 25-50 hours then re-sampling the lube oil. The concern with making any claim against your surveyor is that there was no water or glycohol in the oil sample. Also, you will also find that any service order you signed contained wording to the effect that the surveyor is limited to his best efforts, and who commissioned and paid for the survey might also put a claim in question.....if the surveyor hired the surveyor and paid him, then you settled up at closing, I'm not sure you have any standing to make a claim. I'm not a lawyer and make no claim to be. I've just never seen a surveyor held liable than any more than the amount of the survey, but I wish you luck in pursuing a claim.
 
I can understand high iron in his sample because of the old oil, but due to the shape the cylinders were obviously in wouldn't it have been unusually high in this case? I mean, atleast higher than the starboard sample? I also don't quite understand why the sample would not have shown high readings of sodium or potassium since he had a coolant leak.

Since Steve probably hasn't put that many hours on his boat since taking the sample, is this type of breakdown indicative of an immediate failure (not detectable) vs. one that gradually occurs (and would be detected by trend analysis)?

I agree his chances are slim but, at this point, probably worth a shot. I've seen well worded letters from attorneys do wonders. who knows, maybe they'd agree to give him parts at their cost as some form of consideration.
 
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Tim,

You hit on the crux of the ability to go back on anyone here.........even with the old oil in the engine, at the survey fluid analysis, there was no water or glycohol in the sample. That can only mean that whatever happened to the engine, happened after the oil sample was taken.
 
Steve, you mentioned something a few posts back that jumped out at me when you said "my broker hired the boat surveyor and the engine surveyor". I've always felt that you have to be careful when the broker recommends his buddy for the survey. You can end up in a situation where the people that are supposed to be looking out for you are only looking to make sure the deal goes through so they get paid. Not saying that's what happened or that they weren't honest but you may have been the only person really looking out for your best interest. I hope it all turns out well for you in the end. The 500DA has always been one of my favorites! Mark
 
Hey Mark, sorry it took so long for me to respond. Got to spend the weekend with my stupid 19 year old step daughter at her rehab program and getting pissed off at myself for not killing her when I had the chance, however, I did get a chuckle or two when I sold her 2000 BMW 328 I for $4500.00. Not sure what it was about that...that made me laugh. Oh yea now I remember, she is an idiot and should be driving a PT cruiser with 4 million miles on it.

Anyway, my broker didn't know the engine surveyor, I wanted a Detroit diesel specialist and that is what he got me.


Steve
 
Steve, can you tell us how you really feel about your step daughter? :grin:
 
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