Port engine smokin like a crematorium with two fat guys in it.

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by Steve500dancer, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. Steve500dancer

    Steve500dancer New Member

    865
    Jul 13, 2009
    Franklin Tennessee (Nashville area)
    1996 500 sundancer
    2001 340 sundancer sold
    2001 270 Rinker sold
    1996 240 sundancer sold
    Twin 6v92 Detroit deisels
    Saturday I was running my 1996 Sea Ray 500 at about 1400 RPM when I noticed my port side engine smoking a bit. I checked my gauges and everything was good, 50 PSI oil pressure and 165-170 degrees. I thought that it may have been loading up a bit with fuel. I opened her up to about 1800 RPM and noticed her smoking even more. I also noticed that both water temps were climbing up to about 175 -180. I immediately shut her down and dropped anchor. I have not had any issues with smoke of any color on my port engine, I thought the temp rise may have been due to over filling the coolant the day before. I topped it off and filled the over flow tank 1/3 full. The starboard engine took about 2 gallons to top off and fill the overflow. The port took about 1 gallon to top off and fill the over flow tank.

    I let the engines cool back down and checked everything I could think of then fired it back up. No smoke on fire up and the temps both dropped to 160 degrees. When I gave the port engine some throttle she started smoking. The more throttle the more gray smoke. I limped it back to the docks at idle and the temps Bo stayed at exactly 160 degrees and very little smoke from port and none on starboard.

    When I got back to the docks I pulled the port air filter and checked the turbo. I thought that it may have froze up. The turbo spun freely and just a little oil on the top of the turbo seal area. I fired it up again this morning hoping that Santas Elves showed up while I slept and made everything all better. Guess what....just another reason not to believe in Santa. I called the mechanic at went through it for me when I bought the boat a few months ago and he thinks it may be a cracked or stuck injector. Says that it is not a big deal at all, he also said not to worry about running it, however, we never left the dock today, I am of the belief that if something isn´t right, no matter how minor...don´t push your bad luck.

    Any help with this would be greatly appreciated, if I was dealing with a gas engine, she would be apart and back together by now. I am new to the diesel world and just learning the differences between diesel and gas engines, ordered diesel for Dummy´s on Friday,

    Thanks in Advance for any help with this,



    Steve
     
  2. markrinker

    markrinker New Member

    325
    Jul 19, 2011
    Lake Union - Seattle, WA
    2000 410DA
    Caterpillar 3126
    Sorry to hear of your woes. Smoke from diesels, broadly stated:

    Black - unburned fuel due to insufficient airflow (filter, turbo, etc.)
    White - coolant finding its way into combustion chamber (head gaskets, aftercooler problems, etc.)

    Since you are reporting gray smoke, and low coolant levels, my first thought is " ...where is all that coolant going? " Possibly this is a starting point for another area to investigate.
     
  3. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Add: blue smoke - unburned fuel or oil in the cylinders with unrestricted air flow.

    Don't know about gray..........but if you suspect a cracked or bad injector, then don't run the engine if the smoke is noticeable. Excess fuel from a bad injector forms droplets due to the poorly atomized spray pattern. Droplets will "wash out" a cylinder which just means that the excess fuel washes the lube oil off the cylinder walls so the piston is going up and down with no lubricant and that will wear out a liner/piston quickly.

    If you needed 1-2 gallons of coolant to top of the coolant tank then you really need to find out where the coolant is going.............the choices are in the oil, or in the cylinder. The oil is obvious is you pull out a dip stick, but there is usually white smoke if you are loing significant coolant into a cylinder....,also you can usually smell hot glycohol in the exhaust water if you are losing it into the combustion process.

    Here is a Detroit dealer in your back yard if you are still on Priest:

    Covington Power Services
    115 Haywood Lane
    Antioch, TN 37013
    Mail:
    PO Box 638


    Telephone:
    615-262-4141
    Fax:
    615-262-7413


    Email:
    bwhite@covingtonpower.com
     
  4. Steve500dancer

    Steve500dancer New Member

    865
    Jul 13, 2009
    Franklin Tennessee (Nashville area)
    1996 500 sundancer
    2001 340 sundancer sold
    2001 270 Rinker sold
    1996 240 sundancer sold
    Twin 6v92 Detroit deisels
    Thanks Guys, the coolant was lower in the starboard side then the port before I topped them up last Thursday. The coolant was a little low when the boat got to me. Both of the overflow tanks were completely empty. It hadn't changed before I added the coolant. No coolant in the oil at all. I checked both engine oils before I left and when I came back in and no difference at all in either engine.

    The the smoke is a blackish gray. I thought I saw a blue hue to it when I was on the hook trying to figure it out. But, it was definitely gray with black when I was back at the docks and fired it up the next morning. No smell of coolant anywhere. No oil slick or fuel slick in the water. No sign of suit around the exhaust or in the water. This is going to be my first diesel lesson. I have ordered a trouble shooting book that I should have next week. I guess this diesel education might get a little pricey.

    I appreciate the info on the mechanic Frank. I will call them first thing tomorrow morning. I will keep everyone posted. I guess the worst case scenario, I rebuild a motor for 18k


    Steve
     
  5. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    A bad injector is a common issue and is no cause for alarm. Most manufacturers recommend removing injectors and pop testing them every so often, so it might be a good idea to talk to whomever you choose to use about checking them all while you are at it.

    I understand that rebuilding a Detroit is now a pricey process. 10 years ago it cost about $1500/cylinder to do an inframe rebuild; now, since the v-series 2 strokes are no longer produced, the rebuild kits are expensive....more like $6000 per cylinder, so your $18K estimate might be a tad low. Remember, this is a boat and they are a lot harder to work on than a bus.
     
  6. OldSkool

    OldSkool Active Member

    May 8, 2010
    Boating on Raystown Lake, Pa
    restored 1976 SRV200
    188 Mercruiser I/O
    Hey Frank and Steve,

    Just want to weigh in here to see what you think.These are '96' 6-92 Detroit's. Old school tech here for these engines. Since only one engine is smoking and the smoke is grayish blue it most likely is not a filter restriction unless each engine has it's own intake filter. Running the rack on these is pretty easy as I have done them on many Detroit powered shrimp boats. I good tech can pull all injectors and have them rebuilt fairly cheaply. I used a company called Test Masters in Savannah that a were top notch when I was in the business.

    The gray/blue sounds more like a turbo seal going bad. There should be NO oil in the turbo seal area. If you have the least little bit then the seals are bad. Usually the oil is burnt off at low rpm as your engine oil pressure drops off while at low idle. Then when you come to high idle the oil pressure increases in the engine and pushes past the seal.

    This is just speculation as we have no pictures or evidence of the problem to see. Not saying the problem isn't real, just saying we don't have much to go on.
     
  7. Pyrojodge

    Pyrojodge Active Member TECHNICAL Contributor SILVER Sponsor

    May 1, 2011
    Lake Erie Ohio
    1989 Sea Ray 340 DA
    twin 454 Mercs
    This has my vote for best thread title 2012! Lmfao!

    Geese Steve, hope you catch a break soon buddy!
     
  8. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    For injector testing and repair in this area go to Dixie Diesel in Columbia. 1-800-523-4621 or 931-381-1647.......ask for Jim Patterson. They are a certified rebuilder for Bosch, Stanadyle, Roosamaster, Denso, and are a Cummins dealer and are first class, and honest. Jim has taken care of all the fuel related needs on my junk for at least 20 years.
     
  9. OldSkool

    OldSkool Active Member

    May 8, 2010
    Boating on Raystown Lake, Pa
    restored 1976 SRV200
    188 Mercruiser I/O
    Frank,
    I have never dealt with these folks but have heard good reports about them. Us guys in the business keep loose track of such things.
     
  10. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Bill,


    Dixie is one of those rare shops where you can just drive in, say "Fix it" and don't have to worry about the price. Whatever it is, it will be fair. They started out as an injector/pump reman center, but ,thanks to every guy past puberty "needing" to own a diesel pick up, they now have a 12 bay shop and do all kinds of engine related repairs to diesel equipment.
     
  11. OldSkool

    OldSkool Active Member

    May 8, 2010
    Boating on Raystown Lake, Pa
    restored 1976 SRV200
    188 Mercruiser I/O
    Thanks Frank,
    I always appreciate you're comments on marine application of components. Many dirt machine share systems but are completely different in their applications. Basic principle is good for an overview but you can't replace first hand experience like yours for marine application.
    Bill
     
  12. Steve500dancer

    Steve500dancer New Member

    865
    Jul 13, 2009
    Franklin Tennessee (Nashville area)
    1996 500 sundancer
    2001 340 sundancer sold
    2001 270 Rinker sold
    1996 240 sundancer sold
    Twin 6v92 Detroit deisels
    Do these pictures of the turbo help? If you look at the top of the turbo you can see a little bit of oil. I took these Saturday when I got back to the docks? What does a turbo seal entail? Or if it is an injector, what am I looking at. Work and cost that is

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Steve
     
  13. OldSkool

    OldSkool Active Member

    May 8, 2010
    Boating on Raystown Lake, Pa
    restored 1976 SRV200
    188 Mercruiser I/O
    Looks like this is your starting point. The area should be dry. The seal must be replaced by a professional re-builder. Have a re-manufactured unit installed. Better to have a reputable shop do this and give you an estimate unless you have a good working knowledge of the components. I'm sure Frank or I could change this out in an afternoon but someone else not so much.

    Whats your thoughts Frank?
     
  14. Lucky's

    Lucky's New Member

    May 25, 2010
    Jupiter, FL
    2006 320DA w/Black hull;
    (2) 2016 3-up Seadoo Sparks
    350 Mercruiser MPI V drives
    So I'm not gonna lie. I don't know sh!t about diesels. However, as a funeral director your title made me pee myself a little!!!! Hope you get it figured out and thanks for the laugh!!!!


    Shaun
    Sent from my iPhone
     
  15. Steve500dancer

    Steve500dancer New Member

    865
    Jul 13, 2009
    Franklin Tennessee (Nashville area)
    1996 500 sundancer
    2001 340 sundancer sold
    2001 270 Rinker sold
    1996 240 sundancer sold
    Twin 6v92 Detroit deisels
    Yep, sounds like a good starting point. I asked the other mechanic in Florida about the little oil on the seal and he says that it is normal to have some oil on the top like that. Do you think that leak could be the cause of the smoke? What would cause the seal to go out like that?

    Where are you located Frank.
    Thanks in advance
    Steve
     
  16. OldSkool

    OldSkool Active Member

    May 8, 2010
    Boating on Raystown Lake, Pa
    restored 1976 SRV200
    188 Mercruiser I/O
    Oil pushing through the turbo can only be burnt off in the exhaust. This produces smoke gray/blue exhaust smoke. How much depends on how bad the seal leaks.

    You are doing the right thing by contacting a qualified technician for this issue. Our policy is if there is oil in the turbo it needs to be remaned. That being said I don't know the exact spec for turbo oil leak for Detroit turbo's so I'll defer to those who are Detroit certified.

    Turbo seals can go bad for a number of reasons including hours on the unit, hot turbo shut down (not allowing the turbo to idle down before shutting the engine off), and over speeding to name a few.
     
  17. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    In marine applications, where the engines run at constant speeds in high torque ranges, Detroit 2 strokes are known to be leaky. Based on the assumption, which you didn't say, I only assumed, that this smoke thing only just occurred and you have run the engine with no smoke, or normal smoke for a Detroit since you've owned the boat, I am leaning toward an injector issue causing the smoke. I don't have an answer as to why your coolant levels were so low.

    I'm 60 miles SE of Nashville, on Highway 231 1/2 the time and in Panama City Beach the remainder.
     
  18. OldSkool

    OldSkool Active Member

    May 8, 2010
    Boating on Raystown Lake, Pa
    restored 1976 SRV200
    188 Mercruiser I/O
    Frank,
    I suggest he run the rack and injectors first as this would be the least expense. Then if it still huffs oil, look at the turbo.
     
  19. BlewByYou88

    BlewByYou88 Member SILVER Sponsor

    936
    Jul 24, 2010
    Arizona
    268 Sea Ray Sundancer 1988
    2X 4.3L 4bbl Mercs w/ Alphas
    They don't call 'em "Drip-troits" for nothing...IF it ain't leaking, theres something wrong! :lol:
     
  20. Steve500dancer

    Steve500dancer New Member

    865
    Jul 13, 2009
    Franklin Tennessee (Nashville area)
    1996 500 sundancer
    2001 340 sundancer sold
    2001 270 Rinker sold
    1996 240 sundancer sold
    Twin 6v92 Detroit deisels
    Update....ok well after 20 telephone calls and several messages here is what I found out today.....




    [​IMG]



    I hope that wasn't to hard to understand for you not so technical guys. I couldn't get anyone out to look at this motor if it held the answer to world peace. Hhhmm I may want to re think this darn diesel idea again. It's not to late is it?


    Steve
     

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