Port engine smokin like a crematorium with two fat guys in it.

Steve500dancer said:
Oh I forgot to give you guys the final talley on the port side motor, after everything including new fresh water hoses on both engines and all new engine mounted gauges the final total was $24,241.17. That is about three gas engines,


Steve
Click to expand...

1/2 a used Viper! Hope you get feeling better all way round!!

WarrenG
 
Yea thanks warren. I have done the math too. Mine was a little different....nueteak for the entire cockpit, surround sound for the master state room, 4 more cockpit speakers with separate 500 watt amp, and the list goes on and on.


Steve
 
Well it seems I missed the final closing here. My forum notices stopped and I didn't even realize it!

Glad to hear everything is back up and running. I still can't believe the cost though. Amazing how quickly it adds up.

Good luck with the foot too.

Doug
 
Back from e hospital today and all doped up when the report comes in on the starboard motor oil analysis. It came back with a high iron count of 208 parts per million. All other reading were well with-in normal range. The oil has about 25 hours since the last oil change. The mechanic recommends an overhaul.

I am going to have to get feeling a little better before I can start doing some research on what the iron content should be. The reading during the initial oil samples was north of 350 parts per million if I remember correctly. That is a pretty significant drop after 25 hours if you were to ask me. I wonder if there is a detergent available to clean the iron out of the motor on a motor that has been sitting for a few years.

If anyone has any information or research that they would like to share, it would be greatly appreciated. I am not real found of the idea of dropping another 20k on another overhaul.


Steve
 
There are several things that could cause high iron content readings on that motor.

From crank/rods, to the cylinder/rings wearing in, etc.

How did the cylinders look on the other engine? How about the bearings on the crank and rods?

As mentioned before, since the engines sat for a while, the iron levels may be high as the rust starts to wear off from running them more often.

Doug
 
The cylinders on the port engine were gaulded and the main and rod bearings were in exceptional condition. Almost no wear. I did have the mechanic do a bore scope on the starboard engine and he did 4 cylinders. 1 of the 4 showed some gaulding the others looked very good from what he could see.

My hope is that a couple more oil changes at 10 or 20 hour intervals would clear oil a any more rust still in the liners from sitting. I wish a detergent was available to clean this iron deposit out and then see what she reads after another 20 hours.


Steve
 
I don't know if this would be an accepted practice or not, maybe boatdiesel would be able to advise one way or another, but a quart or two of ATF in your oil may help clean up things internally. ATF has detergent properties and is sometimes used as an engine flush/cleaner.

Doug
 
High iron typically indicates excessive wear in an engine from ferrous metal components like liners, rings, crank or cam shafts, etc. You can't normally "clean it out". You indicated you thought you had surface rust inside the engines, but unless you saw evidence of on the internal engine parts in the first engine tear down, I think that is pretty unlikely. Until you know the cause for sure, I think it would be a mistake to dilute your oil with ATF, since, if the cause is wear related, diluted oil only accelerates the wear.

The normal standard for iron on 2 stroke 6v92 Detroits is less than 120 ppm; 120-150 ppm is abnormal and above 150 ppm is critical, so you are 2X the usual for a healthy engine. But you have no history on your engines so you can't see any trending, which is the true value of oil sampling. If this were me, and since this engine appears to run fine, run at normal temps, has no weird stuff happening in the exhaust like white, blue or gray smoke and no coolant droplets, I would change the oil whenever the break in oil is changed on the rebuilt engine, then run this engine until its next regular oil change and then re-sample. A few months from now, you will be in a better position to make a $25K decision (another Detroit rebuild) because you will have a better and more complete picture of the facts.

Follow the mechanics recommendation and spend $25K?...... or wait and resample and hope that under normal use and good maintenance practices the iron level drops? The worst that can happen is that the iron levels go up and you do have liner and ring wear and you spend another $25K on a rebuild. I can't see any harm in slowing this money train down...................
 
Thank you Frank. We ran that motor hard on the sea trial last weekend. It wasn't smoking any color smoke nor did the temp get over 175 at wide open throttle. I also have all the rebuild receipts on that motor and everything was done including the heads being replaced. I had quit a bit of my cost in the port rebuild with 3k in head rebuilding, 1k in replacing the blower and stuff like that. I wonder if just doing new liners, pistons and bearings at this point would be the answer. I would think that would cut cost down around 14-16k

This mechanic has me pretty nervous about not doing an overhaul and have a catastrophic failure throwing a rod or dropping a valve and being in the 40-to 60k price range. I really do prefer to leave everything as is and continue to test and get a good base line.


Steve
 
Steve glad to hear your back on the water, you have a tough decision on your starboard engine, no weird noises, smoke or oil consumption? how's the compression?

you have had some nice cars...
 
I would think.....if the bearings looked great in the rebuild motor, they should be fine in the other motor. You're not going to throw a rod just because a liner may be rough....leaking coolant into a cylinder or oil would be an issue but you're not seeing that, Mike.
 
Got to go with Frank on this one. You have no sign of any failure or performance with the engine. Gaulding usually happens when an engine over heats and the piston skirt rubs the cylinder wall yet you state that you are running 175 degrees temp. Were you seeing gaulding in the cylinders? AKA piston skirt rubbing the cylinder wall or wear marks from the rings removing a slight rust glaze on the cylinder. If just rust then run the engine and retest as per Franks advise. If it is truly gaulded, it will not get better and the new sample should show high iron again.
 
The bearings on the port motor were like new according to the mechanic and they were also the original bearings in the engine from day one. They were date stamped 1995. According to the overhaul invoice from Florida Detroit Diesel the Starboard bearing were replaced at 613 hours. The mechanic also said that when he did the bore scope he could see gaulding on of the four cylinders that he scoped. The gaulding on the port engine cylinders was pretty bad. I should be getting all the tear out parts and pictures this week from the Mechanic. I am also supposed to receive the oil sample read out today. When I get all that I will be sure to post it.

Below are the invoices from Florida Detroit diesel overhaul in 2003
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Steve
 
I received the sample readings today. I am going to post them below. Any information from anybody would be greatly appreciated any opinions also would be greatly appreciated

I did talk to a guy hat has tons of heavy equipment today. He swears by Lucas oil. He says adding a gallon of Lucas would do a world of good to that engines. Any thoughts on that?
7a4e7yda.jpg



Steve
 
I see nothing that warrants a rebuild at this time. You have no blue smoke or fuel in the engine oil that prove ring failure. Did you do a compression test? All the elements for bearing material are within normal range so the lower end should be fairly strong.

What say you Frank?
 
What do I say? Seems like I already said it in post #189:

"I would change the oil whenever the break in oil is changed on the rebuilt engine, then run this engine until its next regular oil change and then re-sample. A few months from now, you will be in a better position to make a $25K decision (another Detroit rebuild) because you will have a better and more complete picture of the facts".


And now Thompson Cat confirmed it: "Change oil and resample to establish trends".
 
No compression test. I had the mechanic price another full oil change with a high quality oil. Same oil as he used on the port that he highly recommended. he also stressed not to mix the additional oil I had left over from the last oil change with what he used in the port. I think doing another oil change on the starboard motor will give me a good base line if I have oil samples from the fresh port overhaul with 50 hours and 50 hours with the same oil on the starboard motor. That should help me compare reading to reading.

I also spoke to my mechanic about the Lucas oil and he strongly suggested avoiding it. Says that he has seen more damage to engines with Lucas and has no other products that he recommends.

He did give me a price for doing the liners, pistons, rings and bearings of 13k


Steve
 
I'm not a big fan of additves either! If regular oil does not work, the engine is bad and going to go south no matter what you use. If a motor has tons of wear but still runs good, additives can build some oil pressure and prolong some life, Mike.
 
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