Port engine smokin like a crematorium with two fat guys in it.

The OP admitted early-on that he had no experience with diesel equipment and needed help. The first mechanic he called was recommended as a good independent Detroit diesel mechanic, the guy he called in Saturday is the go-to marine Detroit Diesel mechanic in the area and works for one of Detroit's largest dealers. They both recommended an engine overhaul so the second confirmed the first and the only difference between the 2 was the method of the repair. A major overhaul isn't the place to learn "Diesel 101".


You do have one valid point, however. If the OP decides to pull the engine instead of an inframe overhaul, he can remove the seating, icemaker, plumbing and cockpit deck himself and save some money and the diesel mechanic will appreciate the help.
 
I would typically do the tear down myself. However, I am so busy at work right now and on top of that I am raising a 2 month old baby. Time is a little hard to come by right now. I guess that I could let the boat sit until things settle down a little.

The next step for me is getting some firm prices on doing the in frame rebuild. I should have a parts list tomorrow. Everyone seems to be concerned about the time frame to get the parts once they are ordered. I have done a little checking on line and full in frame rebuild kits are available on line for around $1,700.00. I am not sure how the quality of after market parts stacks up to Detroit diesel parts.

Steve
 
You are spending far too much money here to trust "Wong Hung Lo Diesel and Lawnmower Parts" for your liners and pistons..................I'm just saying......
 
Thanks Frank. Do you think i should make sure that everything is from Detroit diesel? I have also looked at Diesel Pro kits and heads. I have heard several guys on here talk about buying parts from them.

Thanks
Steve
 
There will be different views on this, but I prefer to let the guy doing the work source the parts.....for a several reasons: 1) He knows what works for him both from a delivery and a quality stand point. 2) Let him make a margin on the parts and he will be a lot more likely to cut you a break on the total job. 3)You should expect a warranty and performance on the warranty if there is a problem. If you buy the parts to cut the mechanic out of his margin then warranty repairs get to be a "who shot John" with the mechanic and the parts company pointing fingers at each other for responsibility for a problem. Boat repairs are difficult to get done right the first time and I have just found that one source responsibility for a big job works best, even it it may cost a little more.
 
Valid points Frank, looks like I will sit back and relax a little and see what shakes out price wise. At this point it really is what it is. I have both guys telling me that parts availability can be an issue on these Detroit 2 strokes. They must both be talking about genuine Detroit parts. The availability of aftermarket parts appears to be a non issue. I am not willing to take a chance on aftermarket parts if I can't be assured of the quality. I am not willing to go through this again on that engine for a a couple thousand more hours. Hopefully, that will take me I to my retirement days in South Florida where I can really enjoy this boat or a larger one.

Steve
 
There are many after market parts out there that are stuffed into OEM bags and sold as OEM parts. They are parts that the manufacture does not make but needs to have to build their product. Dana or Spicer, Felpro or Mr Gasket, etc. The point I make is that even though these products are sold by non-OEM companies it's best to let the technician make the call. He has a good idea who is stuffing what into his OEM bags and can match them if need be by will fitters (non-OEM repair companies).

Frank makes 2 good point.

1. Along with an hourly rate the rebuilder makes modest profit on parts. Go with a total quote for the job and let it go at that.
2. You can do non related work to get down to the engine then let the technician go from there.

Just my opinion.
 
Today was a bit better. I spoke with the first guy that wanted to pull the motor. We talked for about 45 minutes about in frame vs a pull. He understands my concern with the pull. He did a great job making me feel comfortable with his ability and knowledge of the 6v92. We agreed on a labor price for an I frame without having to pull the blower and turbo. He will do the labor for $8500.00 providing the air boxes are not dirty and the blower and turbo look ok. Parts will be all Detroit Diesel. Parts being $4300.00 including checking the heads and all the injectors. If the heads need to be done that will add about another $1000.00. If the blower and turbo need to be pulled we are looking at another $2500.00. His labor and parts price also include a double oil change and adding all new engine room gauges for both motors ceiling mounted (I provide gauges)

He will start tear down on Wednesday morning and have the heads in the shop that day so the turn around time will be between 7-10 days. If all goes well, heads, crank and everything else is ok. I should be 13k and sea trial by next Friday or Saturday. I also called two references and he was highly reccomended both for staying on budget and quality of work. I will also be meeting him at the boat on Wednesday afternoon to go through what he finds on the tear down. No parts leave until I inspect them. He will be providing a written one year parts and labor warranty. I searched the Internet and could not find anything negative about him or his company.

I feel as good as I can for a guy that has taken an ass kicken over the past couple of weeks.

I plan on posting several pictures of the tear down and re build. My missfortune may as well be educational for myself and others on this board.

Steve
 
The one thing I still do not understand are the high costs for marine labor rates or the overstated labor hour totals.

At $100/hour for a mechanic - that's 85 hours of labor. At 8 hour days, that's 10.6 days of work. At 10 hour days, that's 8.5 days of work. Even if you doubled the labor rate to $200/hour, that's still over 5 days of work at 8 hour days. I don't know how they charge that kind of money. It seems anything tagged with 'marine' or 'diesel' just gets charged at a premium rate. I'm curious what a large bus or tractor trailer repair outfit would charge for a similar rebuild?

Doug
 
You're not paying for just labor tho.

Training
Tools
Vehicle (lease/rego/servicing etc)
Certification
Registration/licensing
Travel
Insurance
Warranty
And then you need to compensate them more than the next best use of their time.

They've just compressed that down into a nice easy number for you. Mighty good of them really ;)
 
There are a couple of factors you might not be considering........the components of a diesel engine are massive and heavy. The head on a diesel engine probably takes 2 men to lift. He is doing an inframe rebuild so the engine has to be jacked up to remove the oil pan......likely takes 2 men to jack/block/etc. An inframe rebuild in a boat means limited space and tight access, so having a helper there might save time in the long run. How much of this is a real 2 man job, I don't know, but more than likely, there will be 2 guys there most of the time.

The other factor is that diesel mechanics typically charge from portal to portal, so you are paying them from the time they leave their home/shop until they get to the boat where the real work begins, and then again, from the time the quit work until they get back to their shop/home. You pay not only travel time, but also travel expenses while they are on your job.

Any way you cut it, having a diesel specialist come out to repair something isn't cheap, whether it is a boat or a track hoe.
 
You are spending far too much money here to trust "Wong Hung Lo Diesel and Lawnmower Parts" for your liners and pistons..................I'm just saying......
I agree totally with Frank from a mechanic's standpoint
our shop DOES allow carry in parts but there is ABSOLUTELY no warranty on the repair
except that the customer supplied parts were correctly installed.

Do you also take your bacon and eggs to Bob Evans and ask them to cook them up for ya ???
and what happens if they are too well done to suit your taste ??

a crude example of the same situation
Give the tech a little markup on the parts and then you know who to go after if something goes south :wink:
 
You're not paying for just labor tho.

Training
Tools
Vehicle (lease/rego/servicing etc)
Certification
Registration/licensing
Travel
Insurance
Warranty
And then you need to compensate them more than the next best use of their time.

They've just compressed that down into a nice easy number for you. Mighty good of them really ;)


Yes, I'm aware of what goes in to calculate a labor rate - just seems high that's all.


There are a couple of factors you might not be considering........the components of a diesel engine are massive and heavy. The head on a diesel engine probably takes 2 men to lift. He is doing an inframe rebuild so the engine has to be jacked up to remove the oil pan......likely takes 2 men to jack/block/etc. An inframe rebuild in a boat means limited space and tight access, so having a helper there might save time in the long run. How much of this is a real 2 man job, I don't know, but more than likely, there will be 2 guys there most of the time.

The other factor is that diesel mechanics typically charge from portal to portal, so you are paying them from the time they leave their home/shop until they get to the boat where the real work begins, and then again, from the time the quit work until they get back to their shop/home. You pay not only travel time, but also travel expenses while they are on your job.

Any way you cut it, having a diesel specialist come out to repair something isn't cheap, whether it is a boat or a track hoe.

Two guys on the job isn't something I considered, but that's a good point.

Doug
 
Lucky it's not a computer network:

And if it is, you better have picked the Platinum Plan


No Plan...........$195/hr.
Basic..............$185/hr.
Gold...............$175/hr.
Platinum..........Service Calls Free/Consulting Free /Projects $125 hr.
 
Last edited:
Covington Detroit was at $116.00 per hour plus $.57 per mile plus tax and bid the job at 125 hours.

I guess that tomorrow will tell the tale of what went wrong with the motor. They start tear down in the morning. It is going to be interesting to see what actually caused the failure. I just hope the crank and heads are ok or this could get bad again.

I have come to terms with this deal now and have just decided to take it in stride. No matter what it is....it can always be worst. So I will put my girl panties back on and put a smile in my face while I am passing out lots of hundred dollar bills. The bigger the toys...the bigger the price tag...such is life.

Steve
 
Steve,
I'm pulling for a light hit in your wallet. Hope you're enjoying the water soon. Keep us posted buddy...
 
Thanks guys, I could use a little good news today. I am prepared for the worst and hoping for the best. Sending the wife down there this morning with about 25' of solid 4" pipe so they can pull some A/C from the cabin and send it to the bilge, a couple of rolling carts for parts to be hauled to the truck, some fans to keep them cool and a couple of cases of water for them.

Stay tuned for the next episode of "As The Prop Turns"

Steve
 

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