Madison Wisconson

[VTSeaRay]

If what you posted were true it would be all over the talk radio.

Many schools had student lead walk outs, protests, sit- ins and more.

I have seen no school teacher or school administration initiated school day student events.

Many reporters are desperately searching for such an event to report.

Actually, I don't think they would - that would be against the democratic party which runs most of those media sources. I was somewhat surprised to see it on TV, and have looked for it since but haven't seen it again. Again, it was a live feed, outside the state house or wherever they're protesting and it was a reporter walking thru the crowds doing random interviews of this young group of kids. They asked at least 2 kids why they were there, and they weren't quite sure. One said their teacher had a discussion in class on this, and they decided to go to the protest, but she wasn't sure what/why they were protesting. Another interviewed sounded like he was just glad to be out of the classroom.

 

[Presentation]

You know what? I give up.

You guys are right. Teachers are to blame. It’s all there fault. They caused this.

All teachers are bad!

Now I’m going to stop playing on the internet and go tell my wife who has been up since 5:20AM correcting student papers and tell her how lazy she is. Wish me luck, ok?

 

[VTSeaRay]

You know what? I give up.

You guys are right. Teachers are to blame. It’s all there fault. They caused this.

All teachers are bad!

Now I’m going to stop playing on the internet and go tell my wife who has been up since 5:20AM correcting student papers and tell her how lazy she is. Wish me luck, ok?

Sorry to hear that Pres. - you shouldn't take all this personally, if your wife's a good teacher, which it sounds like she is, this discussion isn't about her.

My father(retired IBEW), brother(IBEW), and son(Pilot) are all in Unions... so, I'm not unfamiliar with them. They all have to be, in order to do the work they want to do. Not because they like Unions. They all dislike paying dues and seeing where the monies go. It doesn't make them bad, it just brings out how powerful/bad the Union structure has become. It needs to change. We can't afford it, nor can they. It's a fair amount of pay they lose to those dues.

-VtSeaRay

 

[Presentation]

Well, I told her. She now has been told she is Lazy. I sure put her in her place. Stupid girl, decided to dedicate her life to helping children. She totally deservers to be called lazy for doing that.

Actually, I was watching live news video feeds yesterday or the day before outside of the Madison building (state house?) they were protesting at. They walked up to these younger kids (HS students) and asked them why they were there... They were clueless.

Not sure what the channel/news org was that was feeding the video.

-VtSeaRay

So some kids on their own decided to go to downtown Madison to see what was up and they got on TV. Yes this is clear proof; it was a school endorsed field trip.

 

[VTSeaRay]

Well, I told her. She now has been told she is Lazy. I sure put her in her place. Stupid girl, decided to dedicate her life to helping children. She totally deservers to be called lazy for doing that.




So some kids on their own decided to go to downtown Madison to see what was up and they got on TV. Yes this is clear proof; it was a school endorsed field trip.

Yup, our work here is done. :grin:

 

[CV-23]

The bottom line is that public workers can only earn what the community can afford. Want more money, move to a bigger town where costs of living are higher. Why should any taxpayer funded job earn twice what the average worker makes? The term public servant means nothing anymore. My Mom taught for 35 years and gets $800 a month retirement. She does not get the big bucks the current retired teachers get. The union caused this disaster with 9% and 11% annual pay raises. They make the Teamsters look like rookies, Mike.

 

[Presentation]

… I was targeting the morons that called in sick to work to go and picket, dragging along students that didn't have a freakin' clue as to what was going on or why they were there. Those are the lazy morons, and I stand by my comments. .

I have seen zero reports of students being taken to picket by their teachers….outside of people speculating like on this board. Fox news has been trying and trying to find this.

… Answer me this. How much does a teacher contribute towards their retirement in Wisconsin? How much do they pay for their medical care? .

My wife pays $ 62.34 per paycheck for health care insurance. She gets 24 paychecks a year. She pays $0 into her pension fund, exactly how much I put in my employers pension fund when we had one. Today my employer puts 8.25% of pay into my 401k, no pension. However with my pay being more than double hers, my employer puts in more dollars/year then hers does by quite a bit.

…How about other city employees that fall under unions? .

Scott, I honestly do not know. I have no access to these pay stubs. I do have access to mine and my wife’s paystubs.

…Why is it so unfair to ask that they contribute to their plans, like the rest of the public sector and the majority of union workers? .

Scott, my primary issue is teachers being painted as being lazy, greedy, evil, and bad by people including you.

Waiting for the answers. .

Answers posted.

Scott, now how about answering some of my questions?

Do you hate all people who have better pay or benefits then you? If you do, and you already hate my wife, I must really be on you bad list. Do you hate me Scott?

I’ve posted her salary Scott. What is your salary? Are you picking on someone who makes less then you?

Also, do you hate Four Suns? Shoot, the guys has rooms in his house with piles of money. I heard that when he is having a bad day he goes into one of those rooms and just rolls around on the pile as he says “aaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!”

Oh, and Four Sun’s is darn near broke compared to Warren Buffett and his $47 Billion. Now let’s get him!

 

[Presentation]

The bottom line is that public workers can only earn what the community can afford. .

Hey, we do agree!

Why should any taxpayer funded job earn twice what the average worker makes? .

They shouldn’t and my wife doesn’t.


Do you want to just keep making up stuff and posting it, trying to make us all believe its true when it isn’t?

The union caused this disaster with 9% and 11% annual pay raises. .

9-11%? Where did you pull that number from? You are way off.


The Wisconsin Legislature enacted the Qualified Economic Offer (QEO) law in 1993. The QEO law - and the revenue controls that restrict the amount of money school districts can raise - were enacted in order to limit school spending. Those measures were combined with a commitment that the state would provide two-thirds of the costs of schools on a statewide average (this figure varies by community).

Under the QEO, school boards have the option of unilaterally limiting pay and benefits for K-12 teachers so long as the combined increase is 3.8%. The law allows school districts to avoid true collective bargaining regarding compensation and important school quality issues.

As rising health insurance costs have eaten up most of the 3.8% total compensation target, teacher salaries in Wisconsin have stagnated and even declined. As a result, Wisconsin teacher salaries fell 6.8% from 1997-98 to 2007-08, when adjusted for inflation. For 2007-08, Wisconsin's teacher salaries ranked 21th in the nation at $49,051, down from 20th the year before, and below the national average of $52,308.

 

[plecke]

It happened in the rust belt. Steel mills shut down. It happened in Detroit. If were not for the gov't our auto makers would be bankrupt and starting anew. It has now moved to Washington and our state capitals. Here in Pittsburgh I know teachers who recieve $80,000 per year in pension plus health benifits for the rest of thier life, they retired at age 55. The average income in Pittsburgh is $35,000. Residents have to sell thier homes because they can't pay the real estate taxes to fund the education system that has done a dismal job ever since the Dept of Education was created.
This is not about Repubs or Dems. They are all rats. This is about the ruling class against the rest of us. Some of us benefit some of us pay. But its about buying elections. We all get screwed.

For years the unions said if we pay enough money education would be fixed. Well we did that. Now they say that its the parents fault. Ok then lets call it a failed (expensive) experiment and wind the whole thing backwords. We will still get lousy education, it just won't cost as much.

 

[plecke]

By the way. Lets try capitalism. Give out vouchers. Let the parents choose where they want to send thier children. The whole thing would straigten out within a few years.
If we get away from crony education, crony capitalism, too much useless expensive, wasteful gov't we will all be better off.

 

[Presentation]

By the way. Lets try capitalism. Give out vouchers. Let the parents choose where they want to send thier children..

We have had school choice in Wisconsin since 1990. It started in Milwaukee then went state wide a few years later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_choice

 

[plecke]

I read your post. As usual the voucher program does not pay nearly enough money to pay for education. The hoops that must be jumped thru to get a paltry amount are typical gov't.
I found the two quotes below from your article.

Former American Federation of Teachers President Al Shanker put it bluntly: “When school children start paying union dues, that’s when I’ll start representing the interests of school children.”
No less a progressive icon than President Franklin Delano Roosevelt wrote in 1937: “All government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. … The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress.”

 

[Presentation]

I read your post. As usual the voucher program does not pay nearly enough money to pay for education. The hoops that must be jumped thru to get a paltry amount are typical gov't.
I found the two quotes below from your article.

You are quoting statements about national issues with the program.

In Wisconsin the 2009/2010 voucher was $5,350/student, didn’t matter if it’s public or private. The amount is identical. 2010/2011 numbers are not out yet and can still change right up to March 31.

As far as hoops or denials, in the school district I am in, the only requests that were declined were request from outside students that wanted in, not other other way. School capacity was the reason for the denial.

 

[Big Island Lifer]

This is not a post against teachers.

I cannot justify paying more in taxes so someone else in a union backed job doesn't have to take a pay cut because the union says they don't have to. A civil servant should not be isolated from an economic climate that cannot support them. Frankly, this discussion is two years too late. Most corporations were laying off and reducing pay 2 or 3 years ago. The unions do not allow for the flexibility needed to keep the expenses in line with tax collections.
I have worked as a non union state employee for 6 years. I loved my job. In the end I decided that I need more to be happy with my life. I wanted to be rewarded financially for my hard work when I realized that thank yous and a hand shake and pat on the back did not help me pay my car payment. I applaud anyone in a government job who loves their work, but they can't be isolated from the rest of the economic reality that we all must live in.

 

[Presentation]

We are really getting off track.

The claims / attacks are that these teachers are to blame.

That is what the republicans and some people here at claiming.

Its OK to do XYZ to them because they are evil, bad, etc.

Remember the Vietnam War? We were told it was OK to kill the gooks because they were not real people.



Both sides seem to agree that concessions need to be made. I am not even arguing with that.

 

[jason78]

Please Google Wisconsin QEO.

This 1993 republican enacted legislation set the stage for the current situation. QEO held salary down year after year as benefits took up a larger and larger portion of the total compensation.

QEO moved the pie chart way off over 18 year. Less pay % of total compensation went to pay and a larger and larger % went to benefits.

WELCOME TO THE REAL FACTS

Pres, you have helped me big time with stuff on here so I am not going to get in an argument over this. You have a personal interest in this situation and are understandably uspest with some of the comments.

I don't have a problem with teachers in general and I have no doubt your wife is a good one. The problem is that as with any industry where a union is involved, it is impossible or very difficult to get rid of the bad ones. The good teachers and all good state workers deserve raises but not all of them just because some union says so.

I am not a teacher in WI and have never seen a pay stub. If the teachers are already contributing the amounts you are saying, then the only part of this legislation they should be worried about is the end to collective union bargaining agreements- so what is their problem? You are saying they are already contributing but they are all over the place protesting this so my question is- why?

 

[thomas]

What is going on is that 14 Democratic State Senators are on the run trying to postpone a vote on this new piece of legislation. Last I heard most of them were holed up in a Best Western hotel in Illinois somewhere. That is pretty darn sad if you ask me.

Can you believe this new legislation requires teachers and most other state workers to actually contribute some of their own pay to towards their pension and health care coverage just like private sector employees.

What a travesty. :wow:

WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD

At least they could have stayed WI. We need the money. Now we have to pay IL sales tax GREAT

 

[thomas]

Yes, my wife is a public school teacher in Wisconsin.

Let me ask you this. How much do you feel a teacher should make?

She is 20 years in, has her masters in computers, got her masters with a perfect 4.0, that means straight A’s. She has received teaching awards that were nominated by her peers.

I am sorry some people on this thread are having difficulties. There are plenty of unemployed teachers as well.

Are you mad at all people who make more then you? So are well all mad at Bill Gates? How about our fellow forum member Four Suns whose former company developed web based program updating and is now a multi multi millionaire? Do we all now hate him because he has more money than us?

Easy there pres, you are showing your liberalism, I'm sure with you being self employed you need her insurance.

 

[Woody]

Under the QEO, school boards have the option of unilaterally limiting pay and benefits for K-12 teachers so long as the combined increase is 3.8%. The law allows school districts to avoid true collective bargaining regarding compensation and important school quality issues.

As rising health insurance costs have eaten up most of the 3.8% total compensation target, teacher salaries in Wisconsin have stagnated and even declined. As a result, Wisconsin teacher salaries fell 6.8% from 1997-98 to 2007-08, when adjusted for inflation. For 2007-08, Wisconsin's teacher salaries ranked 21th in the nation at $49,051, down from 20th the year before, and below the national average of $52,308.

Shouldn't that be "at least 3.8%". This is something that upsets the outside Pres and the effects of inflation are certainly not unique to school teachers. I really think you're going overboard with this "do you hate me because I have money stuff". :huh:

 

[Presentation]

Easy there pres, you are showing your liberalism, I'm sure with you being self employed you need her insurance.

I'm self employed? Wha.......? Oh, cause of the business we own in my signature that I don’t work for?

OK now I can tell you guys are making stuff up and simply positing stuff to try to get me upset.

Too many people on this board know my employer. I’ve even posted about my involvement in the marine manufacturing industry. I’ve even given some of our products to fellow forum members.