Madison Wisconson

First the governor's move is in reaction to a 2009 law implemented by the then-Democratic legislature that expanded public unions' collective-bargaining rights and lifted existing limits on teacher raises. This is an attempt to roll back policy all the way back to 2009.


Mike;

NOT being political. Just information gathering: That 2009 law you refer to: Did it extend to more than Wisconsin University?

That is the only reference I am finding in a few Google searches. An example is below;

http://chronicle.com/article/U-of-Wisconsin-Academics-W/47818/
 
This is why you save for a rainy day. You think this is bad just look at what the FMCSA has in store for my buisness. (Federal Motor Carrier Saftey Admin.) For those in the non trucking world.

Prepare for the worst. It could happen.

I am in the trucking industry world. It is a tough industry.
 
"In a nutshell, Walker's bill purports to close a budget deficit by eliminating the collective bargaining rights of all state employees (except police and fire fighter unions), including UW graduate student teaching assistants, while requiring annual union certification. Walker's plan seemed idiotic, even beyond left-right ideological disagreements. Walker was elected based on his campaign stressing his business sense, but the legislation is bad business. Walker claims to be a businessman, so he must realize that in any industry, if you don't provide the standard compensation package, you won't get the top people in the field. Walker's "budget repair bill" isn't about deficits in Wisconsin. In fact, a nonpartisan commission found that the deficits are not severe and do not require any kind of austerity action. And what is the main cause of the current budget shortfall? Walker's own tax cuts. In other words, the new governor created this "problem," and now, conveniently, he is offering a solution.
According to a recent poll, less than 32 percent of Wisconsin respondents support Walker's union-busting, with more than two-thirds saying he has overreached. Taking away the collective bargaining rights of teachers and nurses doesn't help the average citizen, but it sure does make CEOs happy. I hope that history notes the protests in Madison as a turning point; the moment American citizens began pushing back against right-wing attacks." by:
Mitchell Bard
 
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I hope that history notes the protests in Madison as a turning point; the moment American citizens began pushing back against right-wing attacks.

I tried, hard, not to post in this thread. Obviously, I failed.

The above statement all but bought a tear to my eye. What is happening in Madison is in no way "the moment American citizens began pushing back against right-wing attacks.", but by the time they rewrite history, thats the line of crap they'll attempt to feed my grandchildren.
 
Ture. But to call in sick and be paid while protesting is an out and out theft of my hard earned money.


Called in Sick? Personal Day? Mental Health Day? Vacation Day?
Floating Holiday?

I guess I am forced to agree if someone called in sick to protest, it is a moral issue that I am dont have to battle.
 
This gives an accurate enough description...this link from within in your googled article http://www.aftface.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=546


I am still gathering facts. . thanks for responding.. just three questions. . .

<<snip>>
First the governor's move is in reaction to a 2009 law implemented by the then-Democratic legislature that expanded public unions' collective-bargaining rights and lifted existing limits on teacher raises. This is an attempt to roll back policy all the way back to 2009. WOW how did we make it before then? Then the governor would require that public-employee unions be recertified annually by a majority vote of all their members, not merely by a majority of those that choose to cast ballots. If teachers LOVE their unions soo much just vote for them every year so we taxpayers know you still want them and GO vote for them. Not just the votes of union radicals would count, but the vote of every teacher.<<snip>>

So. . .still not going to the political side. . still trying to ferret out the facts that Mike so generously provided. . .

Question One:

So this roll back to 2009. . .a reaction to allowing the unionizing the Univeristy system. . . .if all he is doing is rolling the clock back one year. . . the governor's proposal only impacts the Univeristy of Wisoncson system?

Or does it affect the collective bargaining rights of ALL state unions?

"In a nutshell, Walker's bill purports to close a budget deficit by eliminating the collective bargaining rights of all state employees (except police and fire fighter unions), including UW graduate student teaching assistants, while requiring annual union certification.

<<snip>>

And what is the main cause of the current budget shortfall? Walker's own tax cuts. In other words, the new governor created this "problem," and now, conveniently, he is offering a solution.

<<Snip>>

Ok. . . let me ask. . . .still not going political. . .still not judging. . . .

Question Two:

What are the relative sizes of the tax cuts to the amount of reduction in compensation to the teachers?

Not that there is anything wrong with the tax cuts. . .budget priorities can change over time. . . ..but this is information presented for the first time in this thread.


Still information gathering. . . .one final question. . . . . .

eliminating the collective bargaining rights of all state employees (except police and fire fighter unions), including UW graduate student teaching assistants,

Question Three:

All unions . . .says LaCook ... except police and fire fighter unions.

What unions supported the governer and which did not in the last campaign? Is there a correlation between NOT supporting the Governor and being impacted by this legislation?

- - - - - - - -
 
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And what rights would would you be supporting for the teachers? None of their rights are under assault. None. Zero.
Without bring in your sister, cousin or some other family member, can any one tell me which civil right by number has been violated here???... and why??..I am having trouble finding "Collective bargaining" listed any where......
 
[What unions supported the governer and which did not in the last campaign? Is there a correlation between NOT supporting the Governor and being impacted by this legislation?]


So now you are making it political! If the Governor is doing that they he is wrong. If. But if he isn't then by the states mandate he is trying to fill his obligation to the state - which is to balance the budget. I believe that 49 of the 50 states mandate that requirement. If anyone knows anything different please chime in.
 
ah. . .we are now in the holding tank.

The fur can really fly now. . . .

. . . .and no, I am not making it political except to ask if there is a political motivation. :)
 
From what I see....public education is really a poorly run business.....I know, I run my own business and also work in education! The biggest waste of state and federal money only benefits some students and new buildings we can't afford to maintain after built. We feed students Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner now and you should see the waste of food! We are our biggest enemy because waste is accepted! Starving senior citizens and the poor would not exist here. Our rural schools are being changed by big city students with big city problems arriving daily. We even have real police now and probation officers! My wife works part time for the District and they ask me to work full time to finish out the 2010 year and I'm still here in 2011....yes I'm nuts. She can't get fulltime employment and I get handed a job I don't have time for! I enjoy the students but it's very frustating sometimes. My Mom worked for the District for 35 years.....I know it well and the changes affecting it. I work 205 days a year for 7.5 hrs a day with 60 days off in the summer plus run my own business 12 months a year. I agreed to take the job for benefits and a salary 1/4 of what teachers make....I could not work here without owning my own company. I instructed part time for 5 years at a local college so I do have classroom experience but I'm currently a AV Tech/Auditorium Manager. I'm amazed some teachers can't play a DVD without support? I would not want to be in a classroom. I would be in jail for being too tough! We have great students and some thugs that should be in jail....do not pass Go or collect $200! The bad apple is what ruins public education....they disrupt the whole classroom and have all the rights. You will find this hard to believe, the girls are more dangerous than the boys most times. 2 or 3 are a force not to fool with. They will stab you because they don't care! At college, I could throw students out of a class if they were a problem and they knew it so there were no problems....much like a private school that more parents want. Many will not agree with me but we need to go back to A,B,C/D classrooms and this is somewhat done with our current Honor Classes but the B and C students have to put up with the failing students (most choose to fail) who are the problem. Parents try to push their B students into the Honor System which does not always work out. Those with good parents do care but they are the minority. We do have awesome to failing teachers and the Union protects the bottom of the barrel all the time. I refused to join the support staff Union because it does the same.....keep the people who "really sleep" on the job! I pay my "Fair Share" dues which is 70% of full membership. Being a business owner, I would never join a union with what I've seen. The pro union members could never get a job in the open market....it's their safety net. They know what I think of them and they know I don't have to stay at this job. I have options, they don't. It really is a shame and also my tax dollars at stake. The whole Federal "No child left behind" has not been the magic bullet by any means....what a surprise! The biggest problem I see are the absent parents and the street children who want to run the show by being in a gang and disrupt everything they don't like. It's a daily battle between good and disrespectful students who just can't get tossed from the system. I see some teachers work so hard with problem students and do save a few but the odds are against them. The poor teachers just push them through or give up and flounder treading water to retirement at almost full wage and benefits.....my company can't afford that! I do miss instructing at college (wanted me to get a Masters Degree...I said no thanks) but I don't envy high school or middle school teachers. Some deserve more pay and others a lot less. We currently pay 2% towards our benefits and that's an awesome deal. It was costing me $15,000 a year buying my own health benefits for my family....the real crime that Obama can't fix, Mike.
 
Question Three:

All unions . . .says LaCook ... except police and fire fighter unions.

What unions supported the governer and which did not in the last campaign? Is there a correlation between NOT supporting the Governor and being impacted by this legislation?

- - - - - - - -

I will agree with you that this fact stinks. It does not change my mind about the spirit of the legislation at hand but it should have covered ALL state employee unions. I have not heard a logical reason why it did not cover those three other than the obvious fact of political support.

Guess where I heard this problem brought up multiple times in the last week? FOX! :wow:
 
I will agree with you that this fact stinks. It does not change my mind about the spirit of the legislation at hand but it should have covered ALL state employee unions. I have not heard a logical reason why it did not cover those three other than the obvious fact of political support.

Guess where I heard this problem brought up multiple times in the last week? FOX! :wow:

I'm not sure why they need to be in unions, but I've seen special care taken in the past when it involved groups that are essential to the safety of the public, fire/police fall in that group.
 
I'm not sure why they need to be in unions, but I've seen special care taken in the past when it involved groups that are essential to the safety of the public, fire/police fall in that group.

Please. Fire is the only puibic safter issue there. When did you need a cop and have them handle it. Any time I needed a cop they were not around or tell me I need to just let it go or some other BS like that. They are just revinue rangers anymore who break more laws by 6am than they ever enforce. Their budget shouild be cut too. I'll protect myself thank you.
 
I am still gathering facts. . thanks for responding.. just three questions. . .



So. . .still not going to the political side. . still trying to ferret out the facts that Mike so generously provided. . .

Question One:

So this roll back to 2009. . .a reaction to allowing the unionizing the Univeristy system. . . .if all he is doing is rolling the clock back one year. . . the governor's proposal only impacts the Univeristy of Wisoncson system?

Or does it affect the collective bargaining rights of ALL state unions?
Ok. . . let me ask. . . .still not going political. . .still not judging. . . .
This is about power and shaking up unions. The rollback as you call it is not back to 2009 but to before QEO and to some extent to the days before the teachers were allowed collective bargining, 40-50yrs ago.
Question Two:

What are the relative sizes of the tax cuts to the amount of reduction in compensation to the teachers?

Not that there is anything wrong with the tax cuts. . .budget priorities can change over time. . . ..but this is information presented for the first time in this thread.
Still information gathering. . . .one final question. . . . . .
The governor has passed business related cuts that are intended to stimulate business, draw in new and create jobs. The total amount is comparable to the amount of savings generate by compensation changes the teachers face.


Question Three:

All unions . . .says LaCook ... except police and fire fighter unions.

What unions supported the governer and which did not in the last campaign? Is there a correlation between NOT supporting the Governor and being impacted by this legislation?

- - - - - - - -
I remember some union support of Walker, which I don't know, but would think the majority of union support went to the Dems. :huh:

I'll say this, contract time for the teachers is always full of drama and makes the news. Just the opposite for law enforcement and firemen. The reasons behind this I really don't know, I'd like to think that they were more reasonable to deal with but again :huh:.
 
Man what a go on this one.

Hey wake up. It's about collective bargaining. It's about the unions supporting politicians who support collective bargaining and now they are being dissed as dems run for cover under the onslaught of monitory shortfall and reform.


You can say what you want to about the police, fire personal and teachers but it's about the meritless promotion and pay of both good and bad in all unions funded by the state government.

BTW.. my wife was a teacher for 15 years in Wi. Hardest job you’ll ever have if you’re good at it.
 

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