Stereo Upgrade

[dtfeld]

While I have upgraded everything with new components, its still the stock/factory configuration and wiring. I'm looking to add some better volume in the cockpit area, but spread it out a little (the arch speakers are 90% of the sound). Cabin sound is fine, no upgrade there necessary, but want to control volume independantly. Want to stay with Fusion Head/Amps if possible.

Current Components

Head - MS-RA770 Apollo 4 zone (Used only 2)
Amp - a JL Audio M600/6

Speakers
Zone 1
(Cockpit area) 4x Fusion MS-FR6022 6". Two at ankle level and 2 in the arch wired in parallel and powered by 1st amp channel.
Cockpit Sub 1x JL Audio M10 10" Subwoofer on 2nd amp channel (bridged)

Zone 3 (I skipped Zone 2 for future expansion)
Cabin/V-Berth Speakers 4x (Clarion?? Original to the boat) On the 3rd amp channel

Proposed

1) Cabin and V-Berth get split off into their own zones

Powered by the existing JL Audio M600/6 Gives the Cabin and V-Berth their own zone and volume control.

2) Add Fusion Apollo 6 Channel Amp and second set of speakers in arch

Channel 1 - Powers Zone 1 4x Arch Speakers in parallel Thinking of moving the existing Fusion speaker (now obsolete) to the arch so 4x 6"
Channel 2 - Powers Zone 1 Subwoofer (Bridged) Current Sub is 250W, this amp bridged is 580. May have to upgrade.
Channel 3 - Powers Zone 2 2x Speakers (Maybe add new speakers here).

Recommendations for system layout, speakers?

Fire away!!

 

[ttmott]

You will want a sub in the main cabin; bridge channels 5 and 6 for that.
I think the two zones in the cockpit is a good idea so you can tailor the sound and volume between behind and at the helm.
Remotes, wifi, or Bluetooth via smart phone?

 

[dtfeld]

You will want a sub in the main cabin; bridge channels 5 and 6 for that.
I think the two zones in the cockpit is a good idea so you can tailor the sound and volume between behind and at the helm.
Remotes, wifi, or Bluetooth via smart phone?

I think full range is good enough in the cabin. Usually this is background music, no high volume level in there. But if I have to upgrade the cockpit sub (The Apollo Amp is 2X the power its rated for) that would be a good place to repurpose it!

One other option on the spare channel would be speakers on the foredeck or aft facing onto the swim platform.

I usually run Spotify and control from my iPad/phone/Smart watch, but also have a couple of the ANT remotes running around. Might have to add a few more. Good enough for tyweeking the volume or a song choice.

I considered putting the stero

 

[Wylie_Tunes]

Before you button up this system, I would consider a different configuration.

Put the 4 arch speakers and the 2 floor speakers all on the same zone. As it is, you will likely find that the arch speakers dominate due to their positional advantage. If you turn them down for this reason, you will also be turning down the woofer. Put them all on the same zone, then gain-balance between the arch speakers with the floor speakers. Now, when you turn them up or down, the woofer's ratio to all 6, stays they same.

Are the v-birth and cabin pairs that far apart that it justifies each pair on their own zone? If one zone would work, then id do this;

Use that remaining zone for you woofer, rather then dedicated zone-1 woofer output. This makes the woofer is own independent zone thats only tied to the master volume v's tied to the zone-1 level first. This allows you to add a little more or less woofer, regardless of zone-1's level.

 

[dtfeld]

Before you button up this system, I would consider a different configuration.

Put the 4 arch speakers and the 2 floor speakers all on the same zone. As it is, you will likely find that the arch speakers dominate due to their positional advantage. If you turn them down for this reason, you will also be turning down the woofer. Put them all on the same zone, then gain-balance between the arch speakers with the floor speakers. Now, when you turn them up or down, the woofer's ratio to all 6, stays they same.

Are the v-birth and cabin pairs that far apart that it justifies each pair on their own zone? If one zone would work, then id do this;

Use that remaining zone for you woofer, rather then dedicated zone-1 woofer output. This makes the woofer is own independent zone thats only tied to the master volume v's tied to the zone-1 level first. This allows you to add a little more or less woofer, regardless of zone-1's level.

@Wylie_Tunes I was hoping you would chime in.


The Subwoofer control on the Apollo head unit is pretty good, so I'd prefer to use the dedicated Zone 1 subwoofer output. Otherwise doing as you suggest, I'd have 6 speakers and a Subwoofer in the cockpit as Zone 1 with a substantial increase in available power/wattage and speaker area. The 2 foot level speaker would be @4 Ohm, the 4 arch speakers @ 2 Ohm, and the Sub would be bridged (check my math!!).

Edited: Corrected wiring and how speaker power calculated.

2x @ 150W each at foot level
4x @ 145W each in the Arch
1x Sub woofer @580W

The cabin and V-Berth are separated by a wall and hard door but they could remain the same zone (Zone 2), and again they don't need much. If I do that...That would leave me 4 open channels on the existing JL Audio M600 for a possible future Zone 3, maybe a nice set of speakers in the trunk facing back off the swim platform. Bridge those channels and I'd have 2x 180W available.

Fusion Apollo Amp Power Specs

 

[Wylie_Tunes]

The zone configuration would not need to change how any speaker outputs are wired, its simply the input configuration. So you could wire a pair of cabin to chnl 1 and a pair to chnl 2 and wire each to their own chnl using 1-4.

The cool thing about my suggested configuration, it does not require any speaker rewiring. It only involves moving some RCA at the back of the head unit or setting in the DSP app.

 

[dtfeld]

The zone configuration would not need to change how any speaker outputs are wired, its simply the input configuration. So you could wire a pair of cabin to chnl 1 and a pair to chnl 2 and wire each to their own chnl using 1-4.

The cool thing about my suggested configuration, it does not require any speaker rewiring. It only involves moving some RCA at the back of the head unit or setting in the DSP app.

Considering a complete rewire of everything. Existing speaker wire is corroded up under the insulation as far as I can trace it and the power wire was set up for much smaller amps. I already pulled new RCA cables able to accomodate all 4 zones with a L/R/Sub and a couple spares.

The factory power wire for the old Clarion APA4204 (4x 50W) was #8, and that was downstream from the main distribution panel which which was supposed to be #2 from the main engine room breaker. Even moving the amps closer to the batteries is going to take some much bigger wire.

 

[Wylie_Tunes]

Considering a complete rewire of everything. Existing speaker wire is corroded up under the insulation as far as I can trace it and the power wire was set up for much smaller amps. I already pulled new RCA cables able to accomodate all 4 zones with a L/R/Sub and a couple spares.

The factory power wire for the old Clarion APA4204 (4x 50W) was #8, and that was downstream from the main distribution panel which which was supposed to be #2 from the main engine room breaker. Even moving the amps closer to the batteries is going to take some much bigger wire.

Let me clarify, my suggested configuration does not require any re-wiring of speakers v's your original proposed configuration. Just a couple tweaks to take the cabin from 2 zones to 1 and the cockpit from 2 zones to 1 and put the woofer on one of the now open zones. To compare the function of the two different configurations, is literally, that easy.

 

[dtfeld]

Let me clarify, my suggested configuration does not require any re-wiring of speakers v's your original proposed configuration. Just a couple tweaks to take the cabin from 2 zones to 1 and the cockpit from 2 zones to 1 and put the woofer on one of the now open zones. To compare the function of the two different configurations, is literally, that easy.

This is what I think you are proposing.

All cockpit speakers on Zone 1, Cockpit Sub on Zone 2

Cabin and V-Berth Speakers on their own zone.

 

[Wylie_Tunes]

Yep.

 

[Blueone]

I would consider another sub….. I have one at the helm under the captains chair and one in the back….. you paid for it…. Mine as well enjoy it while underway

 

[dtfeld]

I would consider another sub….. I have one at the helm under the captains chair and one in the back….. you paid for it…. Mine as well enjoy it while underway

Looking at moving to a 12" much more powerful version. Not sure I want to cut a bunch more holes in every flat panel of the boat. But for now baby steps.

 

[techmitch]

Looking at moving to a 12" much more powerful version. Not sure I want to cut a bunch more holes in every flat panel of the boat. But for now baby steps.

I would normally agree, but with proper power distribution and tuning, two subs can surely be accommodating.
In my cart for home. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nakami...arc-and-sse-max-black/6488899.p?skuId=6488899

 

[Blueone]

Not sure I want to cut a bunch more holes in every flat panel of the boat. But for now baby steps.

Practice on the hole you cant see......then you will be good to go on the second.....you are not going to go back later and make another hole and wire it at a later date

 

[Skybolt]

I would normally agree, but with proper power distribution and tuning, two subs can surely be accommodating.
In my cart for home. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nakami...arc-and-sse-max-black/6488899.p?skuId=6488899

I have this for the media room. Not thrilled with it. When everything connect's it's great. But the rear sub's and surround channels constantly disconnect and also crackle with voice. Yes, everything is tuned correctly

 

[techmitch]

I have this for the media room. Not thrilled with it. When everything connect's it's great. But the rear sub's and surround channels constantly disconnect and also crackle with voice. Yes, everything is tuned correctly

Not that it would effect connectivity (unless your "rear" sub is very far back) but the sub's should be left and right, not front and rear. See section 2.0.
https://www.helpdesk.nakamichi-usa.com/_files/ugd/757848_b379a2100e2140d7b8b6324d000f2dc6.pdf

 

[Wylie_Tunes]

Two 10" woofers would have a greater surface area compared to a single 12", so this = more moved air. However, a 12" can yield a deeper bass extension then a 10".

In an open floor plan boat, the single larger woofer typically wins. In a larger boat with separated listening areas, 2 woofers, regardless of size, may be best. The seating arrangement can create geographical sound barriers. So a single woofer placed here, may not be heard well, to those seated over there, regardless of size.

 

[Skybolt]

Not that it would effect connectivity (unless your "rear" sub is very far back) but the sub's should be left and right, not front and rear. See section 2.0.
https://www.helpdesk.nakamichi-usa.com/_files/ugd/757848_b379a2100e2140d7b8b6324d000f2dc6.pdf

Yes, rear sub's was plural. Meaning rear, not by the tv, but by the seating and yes left and right. Still they get distorted at times from interference (maybe?) not sure but it takes a few minutes to smooth out. Also don't always turn on. I only mention this because at that price there may be better options like old school receiver and wired speakers.

 

[techmitch]

Yes, rear sub's was plural. Meaning rear, not by the tv, but by the seating and yes left and right. Still they get distorted at times from interference (maybe?) not sure but it takes a few minutes to smooth out. Also don't always turn on. I only mention this because at that price there may be better options like old school receiver and wired speakers.

Yep, I'm on the fence with that exact decision. Not to mention that syst. was $300.00 less last weekend.

 

[dtfeld]

After everybodys input and a little more thought. I think I have an upgrade plan. Going to do it in steps.

Step 1

- Add a 4 Channel Apollo amp Got a deal on an open box Score!
- Relocate cockpit amps to area beside helm (keep wire shorter).
- Upgrade wiring to accommodate bigger amps (working out mounting/wiring/fusing next)
- Upgrade speakers Considering Fusion Signature 3 8.8's, 7.7's in that order. The older Signature 3 (Not 3i's) are on sale, look the same spec wise and look good. Just have to make sure they fit (or can be stuffed in).

Step 2

Add a Separate Fusion Mono Block and a second 10" sub both under the starboard side of the U lounge.