Fuel Prices!

Oh NO.!!. Are we all going to become blow boat owners in the near future. :wow: . :lol:
 
...And don't forget the sand Intel uses to make the chips really belongs to all of us anyway.

Com, The reason we have no new refineries is the much mentioned EPA regs, it and the existing expansion is part of the evidence of my personal favorite "crony capitalism". For those of you out of the loop that means the existing refiners in cahoots with goverment conspire to make it impossible for competitors to get in the market.

MM
 
You know what? Sea Ray is as bad as the oil companies. They are selling yachts overseas... and those dudes are paying more than what I think they are worth and they are responsible for the high prices of new Sea Rays. The government should BAN Sea Ray exports so the prices will drop in the US. Better yet... they should take over Sea Ray and make small battery powered boats... screw the big boat guys.

Besides... they never invite me to yacht expo.
 
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I want to trade in my gas guzzling Sea Ray for a $35000 credit from the government so I can get one of those new hybrids the Government is requiring Sea Ray to make.
 
MonacoMike said:
...And don't forget the sand Intel uses to make the chips really belongs to all of us anyway.

Com, The reason we have no new refineries is the much mentioned EPA regs, it and the existing expansion is part of the evidence of my personal favorite "crony capitalism". For those of you out of the loop that means the existing refiners in cahoots with goverment conspire to make it impossible for competitors to get in the market.

MM
Click to expand...

Ummm. . .so are the environmental regs part of the cronism? Remember that industry representatives write most of the rules as part of the regulatory process.
 
So let's put this in a context that even Cornpop can understand.

Let's say it snows 24"... and that... oh.. I don't know... some small skinny dude named "Scooter" who owns a snow plow shows up on a street with 6 houses. Scooter only has time to plow 3 of the driveways. At the end of the driveways, 3 of the homeowners are offering $1000 to clear their driveways. The other 3 will only pay $50. What does Scooter do?

Now if it was Pack, he would plow one of the driveways for $50 because that's "union rules." He would then go home and write his congressman to take away the $1000 the other homeowners have so he can go back and plow the two cheap ones.
 
comsnark said:
Ummm. . .so are the environmental regs part of the cronyism? Remember that industry representatives write most of the rules as part of the regulatory process.
Click to expand...

...Once upon a time is a sleepy country the companies were shocked to learn they must clean up the messes they made like burning rivers and contaminated aquifers that the town drew it's water from. They screamed and wailed but did what they must to stay in business, but they worked through the regulations and happily came out the other end. Then it came to them, let's embrace this regulation thing, but don't tell anybody, they will make secret agreements with politicians and bureaucrats, all while still screaming and wailing, that will make it IMPOSSIBLE for any new competitors to join the market. Then all they do is fight amongst themselves for the total market as NO ONE can possibly join them in market. It is an unholy alliance between the entrenched and the enviro movement. Business uses the enviro's to keep others out of their pie while the enviro's hope no ever gets into the business.

That Roger Penke couldn't start a car manufacturer from the remains of Saturn is one such example. Would it be close to possible to start a car company to build a car for the masses? I say NEVER. The current players will never let it happen, no matter the amount of money one has, and regulation is the club they will kill you with.

What industry can you open up a MAJOR business?

MM
 
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Four Suns said:
It's simply amazing that people on this board actually think the government should dictate to a private business (i.e. a refiner) where they can sell their products. The government doesn't own oil or refined products so to say the "U.S. is exporting (insert item here)" is really misleading. COMPANIES are exporting stuff... COMPANIES that have other people willing to pay a hirer price. COMPANIES that create jobs here in the US because they are doing stuff for overseas markets.
Click to expand...

It’s not exactly new, revolutionary, or subversive that the government (elected by the people), dictates some kind of public policy that is designed to keep a few individuals from controlling significant aspects of public life, or makes decisions to provide for the common defense.

The Sherman antitrust act was passed in 1890 to prohibit business activities that reduce or eliminate competition in in the marketplace. One of its most significant uses was to break up Standard Oil in 1911 into 34 companies.

During World War II there were many kinds of limitations on trade with the Germans, Japanese, etc., for obvious reasons. Few considered this to be anything but common sense. Thinking about today, energy is frequently mentioned as a national security issue – that common defense thing.

ATT was broken up, in part to kick some life into a moribund telecommunications industry. Among arguments, ATT had little incentive to improve technology when it held the whole game. Think about that the next time you check your i phone for something. Sure beats having a pink “princess phone” on your nightstand.

So, maybe to promote a viable middle class, advance technology, keep a broad based and successful economy for as many as possible, and provide for the common defense, the gov’t (elected by the people) may have to step in with an energy policy that is updated and makes sense. It’s been a long time since action was taken in 1911.
 
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MonacoMike said:
...Once upon a time is a sleepy country the companies were shocked to learn they must clean up the messes they made like burning rivers and contaminated aquifers that the town drew it's water from. They screamed and wailed but did what they must to stay in business, but they worked through the regulations and happily came out the other end. Then it came to them, let's embrace this regulation thing, but don't tell anybody, they will make secret agreements with politicians and bureaucrats, all while still screaming and wailing, that will make it IMPOSSIBLE for any new competitors to join the market. Then all they do is fight amongst themselves for the total market as NO ONE can possibly join them in market. It is an unholy alliance between the entrenched and the enviro movement. Business uses the enviro's to keep others out of their pie while the enviro's hope no ever gets into the business.

There is something to the point above.


That Roger Penke couldn't start a car manufacturer from the remains of Saturn is one such example. Would it be close to possible to start a car company to build a car for the masses? I say NEVER. The current players will never let it happen, no matter the amount of money one has, and regulation is the club they will kill you with.

It would have depended upon GM providing Penske with product for a number of years, and possibly the loss of some intellectual capital in the process. GM and Penske could not come to agreement. Hummer died for the same reason with the Chinese. I think that part of your point is that regulations for safety, enviroment, etc., make it difficult to start from the ground up with the very sophisticated product that the modern auto is. And, you are right. But, start-up auto companies have been popping up in foreign lands for decades - Honda, Subaru, Mitsubishi, Kia, Hyundai and more. All started as more modest companies that expanded into early crude autos that met the minimum standards for their day. Some have had success, others not so much. Sometimes, their gov'ts helped create the business climate that made this work, and the Chinese seem about to do it. We need to hold our politicians accountable for the right kind of action, not the kind of crony capitalism that you are referring to.

What industry can you open up a MAJOR business?

MM
Click to expand...

....
 
Four Suns said:
So let's put this in a context that even Cornpop can understand.

Let's say it snows 24"... and that... oh.. I don't know... some small skinny dude named "Scooter" who owns a snow plow shows up on a street with 6 houses. Scooter only has time to plow 3 of the driveways. At the end of the driveways, 3 of the homeowners are offering $1000 to clear their driveways. The other 3 will only pay $50. What does Scooter do?

Now if it was Pack, he would plow one of the driveways for $50 because that's "union rules." He would then go home and write his congressman to take away the $1000 the other homeowners have so he can go back and plow the two cheap ones.
Click to expand...

And a guy by the name of Stupid fergson would be proclaiming that no one benefits from the snow and the government should do something to stop it from snowing. After all if we don’t all pay the $1000 (which is 99% of our income) to have are driveways plowed we will surly die.
 
3 of the homeowners are offering $1000 to clear their driveways. The other 3 will only pay $50. What does Scooter do?
Click to expand...

I'd pi$$ & sh*t my pants if they offered that much :wow:. I got $1 dollar a minute to plow snow. :smt021
 
Wow, this has drifted......so fuel is high and will no doubt get higher....that is determined by the global market.....manufacturing is gone, seemingly, because we cannot, practically, work people in factories, six days a week, 12 hours a day, and pay them $2.00 per hour for their efforts, yet,....we can't permit refineries, etc., because of enviro regs....not everyone is going to be a software engineer....our natural resources are not infinite.....there are roughly about 300 million people living here....so what is happening??.....are most people going to be reduced to a "third world" standard of living.....while very few have more than enough??.....is that where we are headed, like it or not??.....
 
Dave 205 said:
It’s not exactly new, revolutionary, or subversive that the government (elected by the people), dictates some kind of public policy that is designed to keep a few individuals from controlling significant aspects of public life, or makes decisions to provide for the common defense.

The Sherman antitrust act was passed in 1890 to prohibit business activities that reduce or eliminate competition in in the marketplace. One of its most significant uses was to break up Standard Oil in 1911 into 34 companies.

During World War II there were many kinds of limitations on trade with the Germans, Japanese, etc., for obvious reasons. Few considered this to be anything but common sense. Thinking about today, energy is frequently mentioned as a national security issue – that common defense thing.

ATT was broken up, in part to kick some life into a moribund telecommunications industry. Among arguments, ATT had little incentive to improve technology when it held the whole game. Think about that the next time you check your i phone for something. Sure beats having a pink “princess phone” on your nightstand.

So, maybe to promote a viable middle class, advance technology, keep a broad based and successful economy for as many as possible, and provide for the common defense, the gov’t (elected by the people) may have to step in with an energy policy that is updated and makes sense. It’s been a long time since action was taken in 1911.
Click to expand...

The government has generally gotten out of the business of regulating commodity items (thank God) on who/where they can be sold. Like it or not, gasoline is a commodity item. And if you review history a little closer, anytime the government regulates who a product can be sold to and how, the price sky rockets. Go check out what happen to prices during WWII on items that were restricted...

Last time I checked, the oil companies employ a lot of people and operate at something like a 3-5% profit margin. Is that bad? Also, oil companies and refiners don't set the price of oil and gas... if you think that, you've been watching too much MSNBC. I'm all for drilling more here in the US... or building pipelines.. but Obama does have his energy policy. He wants gas to be expensive so we all drive a Volt.

Maybe they should restrict the selling of beer overseas... It is way too expensive. And I think that's a national security issue.

I think we want all/any company to sell products for export. As many and as much as they can. Or maybe everyone forgot about the trade imbalance we have. Oh wait... we only want to allow companies to export things we don't want... if we want them and they are too expensive, we should screw them to the wall.
 
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D-Sill-D said:
Wow, this has drifted......so fuel is high and will no doubt get higher....that is determined by the global market.....manufacturing is gone, seemingly, because we cannot, practically, work people in factories, six days a week, 12 hours a day, and pay them $2.00 per hour for their efforts, yet,....we can't permit refineries, etc., because of enviro regs....not everyone is going to be a software engineer....our natural resources are not infinite.....there are roughly about 300 million people living here....so what is happening??.....are most people going to be reduced to a "third world" standard of living.....while very few have more than enough??.....is that where we are headed, like it or not??.....
Click to expand...

That's a tad extreme. Maybe the issue is not $2.00/hour for factory... but it sure isn't $35/hour with full retirement at age 55 and fully covered health care.

"not everyone can be a software engineer" is a real cop out IMO. No one said that... but when people go to college or want a career in life, looking at the financial outcome of said career should weigh into their decision on how hard they have to work to get there. You know how many kids I talk to that have a degree in "history" or "international studies" or some other bull**** degree? Tons. And they are now $100K in debt with a worthless degree and b!tch they can't afford their $150/month data plan for their iPhone. So they live at home with Mommy and Daddy (who told them they should only do what they "like to do" in life) cutting grass at a golf course and won't take a professional job because they feel they are entitled to $95K/year, a new car and 3 55" plasma TV's.

Gas is not that expensive here... Everyone want's the US to be like "Europe"... well.. welcome to $4.00/gallon (that's what it was in Europe in the 80's). I'm guessing if one adjusts gasoline to inflation from 1985, it's probably the same price as it was back then... I bet new boat prices have increase as a percentage far more than fuel has. A 22 foot bow rider from Sea Ray back in 1985 was probably $10K?... what is it now? $50K?
 
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I'm so tired of hearing from the global posters about how lucky we are to only be paying what we pay for fuel. You have no idea of the total economic structure of the US. When taken with all the taxes we pay on every item, business transactions, income, food and etc.. fuel should be a minimal charge to pay the vendor. It's not about the fuel so much as it's about the tax rate per gallon.

BTW before weighing in on US pricing you may want to take care of that little issue you have in Europe since you changed over to the Euro. In Canada your government should be giving you free oil with all that you are selling to foreign concerns.
Next time one of you globals complains about long waiting list for health care or your countries economical collapse. I'll be sure to keep my mouth shut as it is your countries affair.
 
I don't think that the prices will keep us off the lake, but we will spend more time tied up and swimming. Do you guys think it slows down the purchase of boats when the prices go way up... I do.
 
At least I don't own more on my boat then what its worth, talk about being stupid, and then is so anal he won't even s**t in the toilet on his boat.
And by the way I had a great time on the road trip and saved money on the boat and trailer by doing what I did.
 
100LL: $5.76 ,JET A : $5.51
today at the local WAWA reg was $3.45 so figure 5-6 by memorial day
 
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