Fuel Prices!

I don't know about you but I don't get a whole lot of sympathy from family and friends when I mention my fill up costs. I usually instead get the "oh boo hoo, you poor baby, you have to fill up your yacht, i feel so sorry for you (engage extreme sarcasm here)" or some such.

Outside this board, I can almost guarantee you, no one is feelin real sorry for us. And they probably shouldn't. Boats are a luxury item, got to pay to play. I told myself when I took the plunge I would never grouse about gas prices, after all, we have it better than probably 99.99% of the rest of the world's population, so we really don't have a right to complain.
 
Westie said:
Oil is just like any other free market item. It is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.
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sfergson727 said:
I was referring to the big picture Westie, not boaters. Open your eyes. When the price goes through the roof, it hurts everyone. Oil/Gas is not a luxury, and to say that it's only worth what a consumer is willing to pay for it is stupid. S-T-U-P-I-D.
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Maybe Westie is on to something. Next time I go to the gas station I'll offer them fiddy cent on a dollar and insist they throw in a 6-pk of brew.:huh:
 
JimT said:
The biggest cause of the recent increase in gas prices is the lack of refining capacity. There is plenty of oil in the US which is exemplified by the the difference in price between Brent and WTLSC. You can also see this in the price differential between the coasts. If you want cheaper gas then support a refinery in your backyard.
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And the number one reason for lack of refining capacity is the EPA restrictions placed on new construction or new refineries. Wherever and whatever you want to talk about it always comes back to the EPA footprint being discovered somewhere along the path. This may be Jimmy Carters lasting legacy......he created this monster. It is painfully obvious that the will of the American people is no longer followed by those they elect into office. Most of us want the pipeline and most of us want to drill in Alaska. Can't be done because the EPA says so.
 
Westie said:
I trailer my boat and store it on my property so no storage costs. Cost for moorage was about $100 last year since we stayed at a dock for a couple of days on our annual 3 week trip.
Maintenance cost are less than $200 a year.
Insurance is $379 per year.
Fuel was around $1400.
Last year I added a 1000 watt inverter/charger for $200
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Couple of points. You should consider the cost of trailering your boat as that is a direct cost of your boating hobby. I don't think your IFORCE is particularly economical but I could be wrong.
I would also suggest that apart from fixed maintenance costs the unexpected costs, i.e. canvas repair, trailer repair (tires, wheel bearings, etc.), wax, polish et al, although they may not have been incurred last year are almost certain require some expenditure in the future.
I think you have understated your expenses but in your case it does seem that you have spent more on fuel than maintenance but I repeat that over the long term it is likely to average out the other way.
By the way, keep sending that warm weather our way. We are having one of the better winters in my memory.
Bob
 
Looking at the advancement in the battery powered cars and the other means of powering how long before we are not dependant on oil? 20 years ago there were no alternative vehicles mass produced as they are today. What will the future bring as for alternative power? With the computers helping in doing the high speed thinking and design the movement towards a different mode of power will be achieved at an even faster rate then in the last 20 years. Are all of these reserves and so called areas of great amounts of oil going to be worth nothing or next to nothing after the next 20 years? In other words is there a real shortage? Hearing that there is enough oil to last for another 100 years.
If the road of invention continues to follow as it has it would be real easy to speculate the need for oil to drop off drastically after the next 20 years.
 
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Dsybok said:
I don't know about you but I don't get a whole lot of sympathy from family and friends when I mention my fill up costs. I usually instead get the "oh boo hoo, you poor baby, you have to fill up your yacht, i feel so sorry for you (engage extreme sarcasm here)" or some such.

Outside this board, I can almost guarantee you, no one is feelin real sorry for us. And they probably shouldn't. Boats are a luxury item, got to pay to play. I told myself when I took the plunge I would never grouse about gas prices, after all, we have it better than probably 99.99% of the rest of the world's population, so we really don't have a right to complain.
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I have to agree with you 100%.....you don't have to boat....99% of the boaters on here paid between $40-$200K for their boat. Which is a luxury....If you have to ask how much then you can't afford it!! And yes I have a smaller boat, but bought what I could afford, regardless of gas prices....I will not complain about gas....it is what it is....There is nothing else like boating and I'm going to enjoy every day I can doing it.....and I am on a fixed income.....just sayin.
 
Sea Ray 215 said:
I have to agree with you 100%.....you don't have to boat....99% of the boaters on here paid between $40-$200K for their boat. Which is a luxury....If you have to ask how much then you can't afford it!! And yes I have a smaller boat, but bought what I could afford, regardless of gas prices....I will not complain about gas....it is what it is....There is nothing else like boating and I'm going to enjoy every day I can doing it.....and I am on a fixed income.....just sayin.
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I can agree what you are saying but the Middle Class is going broke. I didn't spend $40,000 on my boat and I like to entertain on it but the days of just taking folks for boat rides are over. The CV-23 still works for that at 4.5mpg! My wife/children (19 & 22) and myself enjoy family time and that includes their boyfriend/girlfriend on the 270DA. They understand the costs and it's not just some big toy to play with. I always get a gasp when someone asks about the mpg and I say 2! That's a $40-$50 20 mile boat ride. Those are facts we can not ignore. Fuel is my biggest expense since docking and storage is 1/2 of that where we live. Yes I have three beautiful classic boats and maintain them all myself but I have three jobs that foot the bills created by an out of control Federal & State Govt that now lets the world rule us, Mike.
 
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JimT said:
The biggest cause of the recent increase in gas prices is the lack of refining capacity. There is plenty of oil in the US which is exemplified by the the difference in price between Brent and WTLSC. You can also see this in the price differential between the coasts. If you want cheaper gas then support a refinery in your backyard.
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We have one in Warren, PA! Thanks to the Fed & PA, they were forced to use 10% Ethanol and I just lost 1.5mpg in all vehicles and who knows in the 454/ 270. The more they think they are helping....the more it hurts. Politicians do nothing right because they don't work for a living or buy their own gas, Mike.
 
sfergson727 said:
Again, look at the big picture. This isn't an issue of the poor boaters complaining, this affects everyone, from the teen working in the grocery store to the dude in the 480 Sedan Bridge. When the price of oil goes up, it drives the price of everything else up too. Anyone notice how expensive groceries are becoming? How about clothing, building materials?
We are not simply complaining that go go juice is too pricey, it goes way deeper than that.
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The cost of living figures published today could not be correct. I have noticed a drastic increase in the cost of everything. Stopped to pick up a gallon of windshield washer fluid the other day and it was $3.89. Holly Smolly last time I remember buying it I paid like $1.89. We are so busy living the good life here in America we do not realize the implications of energy costs. Wait until the new electric costs settle in on everyone. Some power generation plants within 100 miles of me are rumored to close down due to the EPA regulations.
 
Last Dollar said:
The cost of living figures published today could not be correct. I have noticed a drastic increase in the cost of everything. Stopped to pick up a gallon of windshield washer fluid the other day and it was $3.89. Holly Smolly last time I remember buying it I paid like $1.89. We are so busy living the good life here in America we do not realize the implications of energy costs. Wait until the new electric costs settle in on everyone. Some power generation plants within 100 miles of me are rumored to close down due to the EPA regulations.
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"One well-known measurement of cost of living is the Consumer Price Index (CPI), which is calculated and published monthly by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. The CPI leaves out what are called “volatile expenses,” such as food and energy costs, and focuses on collecting and calculating the prices of a range of goods purchased in urban areas."

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-cost-of-living-index.htm

Yeah, lets leave out what the political class screws up the most.

MM
 
Alternative fuel is what I was talking about. It would not have to necessarily be electric, Hydrogen is one example. True to the fact solor and wind are not the answer at this point do to there low capability of producing mass amounts of power. There is no way of really knowing what the next power source will be.
This is intersting. A study was done on the use of LED's to light up the streets in America verses a standard light as in use today. By introducing LED light as the lighting source the amount of power plants needed would be cut significantly. Take a look at the pictures of America by satellite at dark. The amount of power used just to light up America is mind boggaling.
 
I thought this was pretty accurate:

mrz021712dAPR20120216114538.jpg
 
So hedge (lock into) your fuel costs now. Estimate how much fuel will cost you this year and invest that amount in an energy or oil ETF. If oil goes up in price, you win on you investment in oil/etf, but you lose at the pump - your investment gain offsets your loss at the pump. However, if oil goes down, you lose on your investment, but you gain at the pump.

The correlation of oil to gas at the pump isn't perfect, but it is close enough.

Simple trade to hedge you fuel costs!
 
sfergson727 said:
Okay, so where is all the electricity going to come from to power all these electric vehicles???? We already have brown outs in the summer because the grid can't handle demand, and the EPA is hell bent on closing the coal fired plants, and won't let us go nuke...so even if the demand for oil decreases for autos (fuel is only a small percentage of what oil is used for, don't you understand?) we will be paying out the nose (ass) for electricity. Either way you look at it, we are hosed.
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Maybe this is where we're heading. It's been 30+ years since the last time.
http://www.usatoday.com/USCP/PNI/Business/2012-02-10-PNI0210biz-nuclear-powerART_ST_U.htm
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/09/10362722-us-licenses-first-nuclear-reactors-since-1978
 
JimT said:
The biggest cause of the recent increase in gas prices is the lack of refining capacity. There is plenty of oil in the US which is exemplified by the the difference in price between Brent and WTLSC. You can also see this in the price differential between the coasts. If you want cheaper gas then support a refinery in your backyard.
Click to expand...

I've actually wondered about part of this post considering all the stink about the Keystone XL pipeline. What is the driver that says we need a pipeline to get to Houston refineries? I know new refineries are a huge issue in themselves, but at what point would it make more sense to build one in Canada or North Dakota instead of a pipeline? North Dakota seems to be a business and oil friendly state, if you could build a refinery somewhere, that would seem to be the place.

Interesting thread. My house is shy of 3,000 feet above grade and it costs about $250 a month year 'round for energy, water, and sewer. 72 degress in winter, 76 in summer. We did custom build 10 years ago and popped for some extra insulation, Tyvek Housewrap, and quality Marvin Integrity low E windows before low E was code. $11,000 upgrade for the windows alone, but my neighbors are already replacing their crap pine windows at about $1,500 per hole in the house! Ouch! Outside of the boat purchase last year, the big expense for my boating is fuel. A typical day out is about $100 to tow to the lake and operate for about 2-3 hours on the water. $3.84 a gal. for straight gas for the boat, and about $3.55 for E-10 for the SUV. Boating was probably close to $1,400 for fuel last year.
 
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They do not want to build new refineries since that would bring down the selling costs of the product. Most refineries run between 80 to 90 percent of capacity. Any fault of the refineries causes gas prices to rise and reduce the supply. Old fashion suppply and demand rules.
 
Free market globial economy bull sh*t has already created enough demand. I was shocked to learn on the NBC evening news that petroleum is the NUMBER ONE EXPORT of the United States. I always thought it was wheat or something. I'm surprised to learn this from a new media broadcast. They always seem to paint such a lovely picture of our leaders. Washington needs to put heavy export taxes on oil and give us a break. Oil companies continue to rake in profane profits.
 
Last Dollar said:
And the number one reason for lack of refining capacity is the EPA restrictions placed on new construction or new refineries. Wherever and whatever you want to talk about it always comes back to the EPA footprint being discovered somewhere along the path. This may be Jimmy Carters lasting legacy......he created this monster. It is painfully obvious that the will of the American people is no longer followed by those they elect into office. Most of us want the pipeline and most of us want to drill in Alaska. Can't be done because the EPA says so.
Click to expand...

Umm. . .no. It's not broadcast heavily, but refineries have in the U.S. have been expanding like mad. We may not be building new ones, but the ones we have are getting bigger, more efficient, and are making the switch to the heavier oils coming from Canada and elsewhere.

The only time I have seen the industry slow down in the last 20 years was during the 2008 recession when the price of oil crashed. Wow. . .the capital sure did dry up fast! EPA holding up the works? Hardly. It's just an operating expense. I have never seen a project flat out *stopped* because of EPA issues; although back in the 2007-2008 time frame I was hearing alot about CO2 issues (not so much in 2011 -> and nothing happened in 2009-2010).

Does the EPA regs add cost? Undoubtedly. It is factored in the energy prices.

Do we have an refining shortage? Hmmm. That is hard to say. Whenever I go to the gas station. . they always seem to have fuel. As much as I want. Nobody lines up for gas, unless the station is a nickel lower in selling price. Nobody restricts how much I buy (unlike hard drives at Best Buy)


sfergson727 said:
Again, look at the big picture. This isn't an issue of the poor boaters complaining, this affects everyone, from the teen working in the grocery store to the dude in the 480 Sedan Bridge. When the price of oil goes up, it drives the price of everything else up too. Anyone notice how expensive groceries are becoming? How about clothing, building materials?
We are not simply complaining that go go juice is too pricey, it goes way deeper than that.
Click to expand...

Dang.

I agree FULLY with Scott. When was the last time that happened?
 
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