Buy American

One only needs to look at other industries/professions to see what CV-23 (and others) have said about the inability to fire union workers as part of the problem. My daughter in law is a teacher in one of the local high schools. She's done that for many years and belongs to the teacher's union. We've had many discussions about what is wrong with our schools and what prevents them from turning out students who can compete with students from other countries. Also about what is needed to fix the problems.

The teachers' union always says "we need more money, we need higher teacher salaries, blah, blah, blah, blah. According to my DIL and some other teachers I've talked with about this, a big part of the problem is that the school districts can't fire bad teachers. The teachers themselves know who is a "good teacher" and who is a "bad teacher", but the school district's hands are tied by union contracts. They simply can not fire teachers who should be fired because they belong to the union.

When I was a cop we belonged to a union and they were the most useless piece of crap organization I've ever seen. They did nothing for us except charge us monthly dues. Funny thing was, we didn't have to belong to the union, but if we chose not to belong, we had to pay an amount equivalent to the dues to the union for their "protections and benefits" we all enjoyed.

We finally got smart and fired them and hired a law firm out of Bellevue, WA to represent us. The law firm, instead of an "in your face" style of negotiations, they chose to negotiate from the "let's see what the two sides can put together" position. They also came to us (as members) and said "OK, here's what cops in other areas are getting that you're not" and had all the facts and figures to back up their data. Quite a contrast from the lack of preparedness and professionalism the union showed us.
 
I currently own American, Japanese, and German vehicles and won't apologize to anyone for purchasing any one of them.

In the past 15 years I think that American vehicles have made huge strides in terms of quality and desirability. I am now proud of many of the products our automotive industry has to offer. I don't think this would've been the case if everyone had adhered to a blind 'buy American' mentality 20+ years ago. Detroit would still be giving us the same inferior crap they were building in the '70 & '80 if it weren't for the competition from Asia and Europe that consumers flocked to.
 
Gofirstclass said:
One only needs to look at other industries/professions to see what CV-23 (and others) have said about the inability to fire union workers as part of the problem. My daughter in law is a teacher in one of the local high schools. She's done that for many years and belongs to the teacher's union. We've had many discussions about what is wrong with our schools and what prevents them from turning out students who can compete with students from other countries. Also about what is needed to fix the problems.

The teachers' union always says "we need more money, we need higher teacher salaries, blah, blah, blah, blah. According to my DIL and some other teachers I've talked with about this, a big part of the problem is that the school districts can't fire bad teachers. The teachers themselves know who is a "good teacher" and who is a "bad teacher", but the school district's hands are tied by union contracts. They simply can not fire teachers who should be fired because they belong to the union.

When I was a cop we belonged to a union and they were the most useless piece of crap organization I've ever seen. They did nothing for us except charge us monthly dues. Funny thing was, we didn't have to belong to the union, but if we chose not to belong, we had to pay an amount equivalent to the dues to the union for their "protections and benefits" we all enjoyed.

We finally got smart and fired them and hired a law firm out of Bellevue, WA to represent us. The law firm, instead of an "in your face" style of negotiations, they chose to negotiate from the "let's see what the two sides can put together" position. They also came to us (as members) and said "OK, here's what cops in other areas are getting that you're not" and had all the facts and figures to back up their data. Quite a contrast from the lack of preparedness and professionalism the union showed us.
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Some unions suck and some cars suck. You find one that works, you dont just stop driving cars. In the end you did keep representation. You obviously had a need for it. The pro-union guys here feel they have a need for it too.
 
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Just bought a new Ram 1500 4x4 Outdoorsman a couple of weeks ago. Traded my 2008 Ram 1500 ( Dodge). Then last night at the Power Squadron Christmas party our friends could not wait to show us their new made in KOREA POS Suv. Not that they are not good cars but I am so confused because they both have jobs that are dependant on the success of what happens here in this country not in Korea.
 
wvsundancer said:
Just bought a new Ram 1500 4x4 Outdoorsman a couple of weeks ago. Traded my 2008 Ram 1500 ( Dodge). Then last night at the Power Squadron Christmas party our friends could not wait to show us their new made in KOREA POS Suv. Not that they are not good cars but I am so confused because they both have jobs that are dependant on the success of what happens here in this country not in Korea.
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Based on reviews by friends who have owned them and prior experience with the Korean made car my wife had when we met, I would classify them as disposable cars. You buy them dirt cheap, drive them for 40 or 50 thousand miles then send it to the crusher and go buy a new one. One of the brands, Kia I believe, had a deal going on around here last year. I think it was buy one at MSRP, get one free. That is about the only reason I think people buy them.
 
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sfergson727 said:
I understand what you are saying. My beef is primarily with the folks who are so pro-union that they go out of their way to be anti-management. I have seen that a lot in my profession and in talking to other union types. The goal is for the company to be successful so that the employee can be successful. There is give and take to be certain, and in the airline industry, there has been mostly take, a lot of take, from the employees. As a former ATA pilot, I had my pay cut by over 60% along with other benefits, so I know all about the taking part.

That stinks, and it's also part of life, so the employee can either suck it up and continue to work hard, and hopefully see better days again, being part of the solution....or they can take the mentality of sticking it to the company whenever the opportunity arises. I have a problem with that mentality.

Hope that clears it up a little.

Unfortunately, I also from my previous experiences with ALPA have found that they often seem to care more about the dues coming in than the pilots they represent, but that's another thread...and not suited for CSR.
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Yes it clears it up, thanks. I understand what you are saying and I agree. The unions do get a little out of hand. I guess that may be a latent response from the years of management going over the line as well. Nontheless, yes it is a give and take, and we have to be careful not to kill the golden goose while trying to better our quality of life etc.
 
320Bob said:
I have to take issue with Scott's, Mike's and GFC's blanket condemnation of American automobiles.
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It was no my intention to make a "blanket condemnation of American automobiles". My points are more on the benefit to society of unions, their stranglehold on American based auto manufacturers, and the bailouts the unions benifited from. MM
 
320Bob said:
I have to take issue with Scott's, Mike's and GFC's blanket condemnation of American automobiles.
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MonacoMike said:
It was no my intention to make a "blanket condemnation of American automobiles". My points are more on the benefit to society of unions, their stranglehold on American based auto manufacturers, and the bailouts the unions benifited from. MM
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Hmmmmm, I don't recall saying that ALL American built cars are junk, but the experiences I've had with renting American cars (when I travel) over the past few years has not left a good taste in my mouth. I do recall a Buick Lacrosse that I liked and found nice to drive, but also a Buick LeSabre that was a piece of junk. Two very similar cars from the same badge, one very nice, one very bad.

I've rented American built Chevys, Chrysler products, Lincolns and Saturns. As a group I find them having much lower quality than my BMW 330ci or my wife's Infiniti G35X. The Lacrosse was solid, handled well and comfortable. The LeSabre only had 8,000 miles on it but the suspension was loose, the car wandered all over the road, it squeaked and rattled, the stereo sounded tinny, and one of the power windows didn't work most of the time.

None of the other American cars I rented was that bad, but none of them stood out as anything special I'd want to own. That being said, I felt the same way about the Camry. It's a nice car, but it's "just a car". There's nothing special about it that makes it fun to drive.

Personally, I'd take a Nissan Altima any day over a Camry or any of the American middle of the road cars like the LeSabre, Impala, and most of the others. But that's just me. I like to DRIVE a car, not just ride from point A to point B.
 
I just rented a chevy malibu, and for a small car, I really liked it, so did J.D. powers, but they like everything!! LOL
 
Oh, I forgot to mention, I served in the U.S.A.F. in S. Korea for almost 2 yrs, and refuse to buy a car from them!!!
 
No judgement here, but in my business life, not as preferred as the the boating life, I am involved with selecting and buying very high end automation equipment and plastic molds. Great sources in the US for molds, but for the best, read most technical adept, Switzerland and Germany rank first. Automation, again, Germany and Switzerland. Wish it were different.

Interesting observation over 20 years is that both of these places have apprentice programs with many young men and women in them, good jobs, good work for them. The best are always busy and lots of BMW's and Audi's in the lot.
The computer and business equipment plastics, read Apply, Dell, HP and etc. and such is all in China, Indonesia, Malaysia, India and some in Vietnam... want to know lowest labor cost, no need for an expensive study look, just at the mfg. location of an HP ink cartridge.

Our complaints don't resonate, because in the US educational quality, equality and reform are sadly wanting.
 
sfergson727 said:
I think the time has come for "Feats of Strength!" (I think we've covered the 'airing of the grievences')
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Ok, With a near superhuman effort I was able to open a jar of pickles for my wife today. She looked at me with great admiration, but damn my wrist hurt like a sumbitch.
 
sfergson727 said:
I think the time has come for "Feats of Strength!" (I think we've covered the 'airing of the grievences')
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There have been many feats of strength exhibited in this thread,; with some jumping to conclusions, flying off the handle, running down those that disagree with them, flogging dead horses, knifing friends in the back, while others are dodging questions, and pushing their luck.

You guys are impressive. MM :smt043

This is a remake of an old joke about a memo from the company about its exercise program; "This company requires no physical fitness program. Everyone gets enough exercise jumping to conclusions, flying off the handle, running down the boss, knifing friends in the back, dodging responsibility and pushing their luck. Thank you"

I was not implying anything other than the joke. MM
 
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Entertaining.......at least.......as winter sets in........
 
I think Newt is all over this.......he says, we should fire the school janitors (sumb***hes...more UNION bast***ds robbing us blind) and hire "disadvantaged" students.....:smt043:smt043:smt043...:wow: .....I want some of what Newt's smokin.....:grin:
 
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