Buy American

:thumbsup:
For all the Union bashers , I am UNION ! Just for your information not all unions go on strike , In my contract we have a NO strike clause , which i support ! after my training as an apprentice and i recieved my Engineers license , My union Hall finds me work , every union employer for my local gives a trial period ,in most cases if your a slouch ,lazy and not skilled ,they will get rid of you , I bust my ass every day and love what I do and expect to be paid well , and have benefits , Oh and dont tell me I make too much , because i didnt go to a 4 or 5 year school and sit behind a desk pushing a pencil making 6 figures a year doesnt mean your superior over me !! I have nothing agianst NON union workers , unless there lazy and not willing to learn and train for growing, upgraded technology
:thumbsup::thumbsup::smt018
 
Sorry but I know a number of Union workers, from different industries. None of then are "Big Union guys" but none seem to mind the Unions they are members of either. I have been told story after story about how co-workers who were lazy, unskilled or just plain dangerous were protected time and time again by the Unions from being fired from the company. In several of the situations it was only after years of problems or large accidents that the Union finally stepped out of the way to let the problem employee(s) be fired.

Personally I have to deal with members of the Telecom Union on a regular basis. Based on that experience, I can tell you that the workers generally feel more frustrated by all the Union rules than anything else. For example, If they get called out to fix a problem with a Data Circuit and find the problem to be in the pedistal, even though they know how to troubleshoot and fix it, they can't because that is another guy's craft and each craft is protected. They will get in trouble if they try to do anything on the other guy's "turf". So, then they have to call an outside plant tech to fix it. If that tech finds the problem to be in a splice, they have to call a splicer and so on and so forth. It is kind of strange like everyone is at odds with one another and are not allowed to cross train or do repairs on one side or another.

The customer meanwhile is left waiting, without service until they can figure out who needs to be the hand to fix what and who needs to switch cards, etc. And whatever you do, don't ask them to work one minute of overtime. They have to get all kinds of approvals from all the bosses because of the high overtime pay.

During all the waiting I have been able to have many casual conversations with these guys. The "old timers" basically tend to not mind too much and just don't want to rock the boat because they are so close to retirement. The new guys seem to hate it more because they feel trapped in one single job with little opportunity to advance based on performance. It is all based on "time on the job".
 
Its funny to listen to the unions are dead folks..... never really worked a day in their life. And if they had they were too stupid to understand that they were entitled to a decent life, even if they earned a living with the sweat of their brow. They hate unions for the same reason they admire the CEO's who get huge bonuses, because we are smart enough to make them sign a contract before we work for them. Why is it, a CEO or wall street contract is valid but a union contract is evil? What kind of two faced bull**** is that?

Absolutely idiotic this constant badgering of unions. These are the same guys who say there is nothing wrong with a CEO who makes 300 times what his workers make getting a multi-million dollar bonus. But those damn unions and their stupid workers who don't have an education or a degree, those bastards are stealing us blind! Good god they are making 50 grand a year and buying a house and raising snot nosed kids..... dirty bastards even want insurance. Those unions are the problem, not the billion dollar CEOs and their bonuses that equal more than all their employees make collectively. Dirty union sons a bitches should know their place, live in tents and die at 40 so we can get their snot nosed kids in there working for even less.

And for you poor stupid guys who work for a living and are not in a union, don't bull**** yourselves. These elitist sons a bitches hate you too, they just know you got no way to fight back. They can kick you all they want and you can't do anything about it. I honestly feel sorry for you.

And FYI, I have been in the same union for 30 years. I have seen a few slackers and they all got bounced from the union and went to work for SCABS...... think about that for a minute.

Well said, well said.
 
Sorry but I know a number of Union workers, from different industries. None of then are "Big Union guys" but none seem to mind the Unions they are members of either. I have been told story after story about how co-workers who were lazy, unskilled or just plain dangerous were protected time and time again by the Unions from being fired from the company. In several of the situations it was only after years of problems or large accidents that the Union finally stepped out of the way to let the problem employee(s) be fired.

Personally I have to deal with members of the Telecom Union on a regular basis. Based on that experience, I can tell you that the workers generally feel more frustrated by all the Union rules than anything else. For example, If they get called out to fix a problem with a Data Circuit and find the problem to be in the pedistal, even though they know how to troubleshoot and fix it, they can't because that is another guy's craft and each craft is protected. They will get in trouble if they try to do anything on the other guy's "turf". So, then they have to call an outside plant tech to fix it. If that tech finds the problem to be in a splice, they have to call a splicer and so on and so forth. It is kind of strange like everyone is at odds with one another and are not allowed to cross train or do repairs on one side or another.

The customer meanwhile is left waiting, without service until they can figure out who needs to be the hand to fix what and who needs to switch cards, etc. And whatever you do, don't ask them to work one minute of overtime. They have to get all kinds of approvals from all the bosses because of the high overtime pay.

During all the waiting I have been able to have many casual conversations with these guys. The "old timers" basically tend to not mind too much and just don't want to rock the boat because they are so close to retirement. The new guys seem to hate it more because they feel trapped in one single job with little opportunity to advance based on performance. It is all based on "time on the job".


Now ,on that note ,I do somewhat agree , some certian instances it can be a pain , where i work now I am the only guy there and am trained in every facet of the building , from the HVAC systems(High pressure boilers,low pressure boilers, roof top units, electrical ,plumbing ect....)so I take care of every thing , But I have worked down town Chi town,in a few buildings ,all union , all trades , we all take care of our own thing and can get in trouble if we touch something other then our own , but that protects our jobs , andsome times yes I get frustrated because I know how to fix it , but if i fix it , im taking someone elses job and money , I wouldnt want someone taking my job !


now as to wages --lol I make good money here in Illinois , now when i moved down to Florida a few years back to be closer to Family I took more then a 65% pay cut to move there , can you live on $15 bucks an hour ? who can really live on that crap ? honestly ? when i moved there a fixer upper home cost $250,000. and needed atleast 50k into it , like anyone could do that on $15 with NO benefits an hour , but your CEO makes 6 figures because your cheap labor , NO THANK YOU ! I moved back up here , where my union protects my rights , protects my benefits and protects my wages where I can live a decent life
 
Now ,on that note ,I do somewhat agree , some certian instances it can be a pain , where i work now I am the only guy there and am trained in every facet of the building , from the HVAC systems(High pressure boilers,low pressure boilers, roof top units, electrical ,plumbing ect....)so I take care of every thing , But I have worked down town Chi town,in a few buildings ,all union , all trades , we all take care of our own thing and can get in trouble if we touch something other then our own , but that protects our jobs , andsome times yes I get frustrated because I know how to fix it , but if i fix it , im taking someone elses job and money , I wouldnt want someone taking my job !


now as to wages --lol I make good money here in Illinois , now when i moved down to Florida a few years back to be closer to Family I took more then a 65% pay cut to move there , can you live on $15 bucks an hour ? who can really live on that crap ? honestly ? when i moved there a fixer upper home cost $250,000. and needed atleast 50k into it , like anyone could do that on $15 with NO benefits an hour , but your CEO makes 6 figures because your cheap labor , NO THANK YOU ! I moved back up here , where my union protects my rights , protects my benefits and protects my wages where I can live a decent life
But a large portion of households in this country are working for that kind of money or less.
 
But a large portion of households in this country are working for that kind of money or less.

anyone have a Pie Chart that shows what percent of households make what ?
I agree ,yes there are alot of folk that make that in todays economy but what is it ? half ? 25% ? how many house holds? and how are they trained ?
 
Sorry but I know a number of Union workers, from different industries. None of then are "Big Union guys" but none seem to mind the Unions they are members of either. I have been told story after story about how co-workers who were lazy, unskilled or just plain dangerous were protected time and time again by the Unions from being fired from the company. In several of the situations it was only after years of problems or large accidents that the Union finally stepped out of the way to let the problem employee(s) be fired.

Personally I have to deal with members of the Telecom Union on a regular basis. Based on that experience, I can tell you that the workers generally feel more frustrated by all the Union rules than anything else. For example, If they get called out to fix a problem with a Data Circuit and find the problem to be in the pedistal, even though they know how to troubleshoot and fix it, they can't because that is another guy's craft and each craft is protected. They will get in trouble if they try to do anything on the other guy's "turf". So, then they have to call an outside plant tech to fix it. If that tech finds the problem to be in a splice, they have to call a splicer and so on and so forth. It is kind of strange like everyone is at odds with one another and are not allowed to cross train or do repairs on one side or another.

The customer meanwhile is left waiting, without service until they can figure out who needs to be the hand to fix what and who needs to switch cards, etc. And whatever you do, don't ask them to work one minute of overtime. They have to get all kinds of approvals from all the bosses because of the high overtime pay.

During all the waiting I have been able to have many casual conversations with these guys. The "old timers" basically tend to not mind too much and just don't want to rock the boat because they are so close to retirement. The new guys seem to hate it more because they feel trapped in one single job with little opportunity to advance based on performance. It is all based on "time on the job".
This is true jason, but for instance, in my field of work (Delta Airlines) is non-union, and where I work we have some of the Delta Airlines folks that are lazy and worthless!! And they made 30+ yrs at Delta being that way w/no union. So, yes the union will let some sorry-ass folks hang around, but it's not just the unions that let the lazy hang around after all..... just stating the facts.
 
anyone have a Pie Chart that shows what percent of households make what ?
I agree ,yes there are alot of folk that make that in todays economy but what is it ? half ? 25% ? how many house holds? and how are they trained ?
Page 5, http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-239.pdf

Usually census data info on household income includes all income earned by those 15 or 16 and older.
 
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Ok so it says 47% of the population makes $15 or less , but looks like the majority of that is folk that have High school or some college education ,and are less then 25 years of age , there are alot more younger taxxed people then older Lets talk about those of usethat are older and have college and extensive training
 
Folks, you have to take care looking at both the Wiki and the gov't report.

From what I see on page 31 of the gov't report, household income includes 18 categories of income, the first of which is defined as "earned income". This is the category that will include most hourly wage income.

I don't think you can say anything about what hourly wages are from these reports. That statistic would be from an hourly wage report, which the gov't likely gets from employer payroll reports.
 
The median full time hourly wage I've seen is usually $21-23. This from other census data and BLS(Bureau of Labor Statistics). There is a variation depending on how they present it, include agricultural or not, that kind of thing. Half the full time workers are working for something between minimum wage and this median amount. Given that the median household income can include income besides wages and more than one worker, it seems probable that a lot of people are working at the low end of the wage scale. An interesting thing I came across at BLS is when that $23 median is equated to 1984 wages it is under 9 bucks. Another interesting thing is the constant increase in productivity of the American worker, but while the American workers wages have nominally increased, the real value of them has changed little since 1984. It seems this is reflected by the ever increasing amount of people that have to get help from the variety of social welfare programs we have. Here’s a little reading on that http://news.yahoo.com/dole-surprising-facts-figures-205300278.html
Here’s a couple places to spend many hrs if you’re inclined.
http://www.bls.gov/
http://www.census.gov/
 
This is true jason, but for instance, in my field of work (Delta Airlines) is non-union, and where I work we have some of the Delta Airlines folks that are lazy and worthless!! And they made 30+ yrs at Delta being that way w/no union. So, yes the union will let some sorry-ass folks hang around, but it's not just the unions that let the lazy hang around after all..... just stating the facts.

But the difference is Delta could have fired them within federal law while the union member is almost impossible to fire. I have nothing against unions as an institution, we all owe them a debt of gratitude for their service cleaning up the dangerous work environments of the turn of the last century to what we have now. BUT, they have succeeded, outlived their cause, and now cost the country jobs. Unions crossed the line when they began negotiating how the business would be ran. They now want to dictate how government is ran as well.

I feel everyone should be compensated according to that which they produce. I know of several business owners that pay more than union wages because what they produce is worth that wage. Many union members are defensive about this because they know in their heart they are being paid more than market value and could not get another job that pays close to what they are making currently. Most of these union jobs are in old line companies that have been union for decades, few are less than 20 years old.

People being paid what they are worth includes the sports figures, entertainment figures and the CEO that oversees a multi-billion dollar company. Why should Peyton Manning make $26 million a year? He produces eyeballs for TV and ticket sales that make paying him that worth it to the entities paying him. Oprah does virtually the same. The CEO and other management make decisions that affect billions of dollars, you want that responsibility and scrutiny? Go get it and make that money, it is easy to take shots at the coach from the cheap seats. The contempt exhibited here, directed at the folks that run the companies, take risks, and build businesses that employ millions is astounding. MM
 
Depending on the union and the local its not almost impossible to fire a worker , I have seen it , fireing a worker for just cause ,,,,,,,,,, just saying , i dont want a long debate here , Monaco or any of the others here ,who has worked alongside unions /non unions and what unions ? In my opinion anti union workers wether your a desk jockey or in the trades always have bad ideas and wrong ideas about unions ,YES ! there are bad apples out there , and yes sometimes it is hard if the union worker has clout to fire them , but in most cases , if there is Justified reasons a worker can be terminated , this is a ongoing debate and will never end
 
Was your English Teacher a union person ? He/she should have been fired!
 
Was your English Teacher a union person ? He/she should have been fired!

Hey! He "worked hard" on that writing. He should get the same credit as someone with proper grammar because it's about "how hard he worked" and not on the quality of the product.
 
What an interesting thread. Here's my take. BULL****.

I drive three hondas, and you know why? Because American cars are crap.

I would not say all American cars are crap! I own three -well now- 2 Honda's ...My wife's' car was a CRV and she wanted to upgrade to a Lexus 350RX -well we test drove one and she loved it! -however I have good friend tell me before you buy that Lexus try the new Ford Explorer (2011) -My wife did not want to waste her time.... well we went to the Ford dealership last night and she drove home a new Limited Ford Explorer! The technology on that car was night and day from the Lexus and years ahead of the Honda - to be honest I hated that Honda the road noise was unbearable even with top of the line Michelin tires.....
BTW -I do not work in the auto biz!
 
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What an interesting thread. Here's my take. BULL****.

I drive three hondas, and you know why? Because American cars are crap. They are overpriced pieces of junk, or at least they have been in the past. They lost me long ago, and I take a long time to forgive poor quality and workmanship. If we are to buy strictly American made products, then the product had better be worth the price...often it isn't.

Unions: I also am a union member, and it is thanks to the union that I have the benefits I do. However, the problem with unions is that it creates an us versus them mentality with the employees versus management. Is that healthy? I don't think so. The company you work for is there to provide you a wage and benefits, and you provide them a service, it's a win win situation. If you don't like what you are being paid, or your benefits, you go find another job. You don't declare war on management and screw the company so you can get yours, which btw is often the union mindset.

No one is owed ****. You succeed on your merits and hard work, if you don't, it's your own damn vault. (fault) This entiltlement society is really starting to piss me off.....
Scott, your so full of BS,:smt043 remember this 9/29/09
This morning I took our 2008 Chevy Suburban 1500 LT, 2WD with 6200 miles into the Chevrolet dealer. I love my suburban, but I had wished from day two that I had purchased one with 4WD, ….I've owned seven previously….I moved up to a new vehicle, a black 1500LT 4WD Suburban. Some of the new toys in addition to the 4WD that it has are: Heavy duty towing package, Trailer brake controller, 3.42 rear axle, locking rear axle, 6 disc changer (previous was single), rear camera, 20" polished aluminum wheels (previous was 17" standard wheels), and eight passenger seating.
 

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