Buy American

Very interesting. I guess some people on this forum just need to bash unions and american products to start sh!!. i am so glad that there are some people on this forum who don't dislike unions and american products, because about a year ago i got my a!! ripped and out numbered big time on this forum about the same subject.
 
twomad said:
Very interesting. I guess some people on this forum just need to bash unions and american products to start sh!!. i am so glad that there are some people on this forum who don't dislike unions and american products, because about a year ago i got my a!! ripped and out numbered big time on this forum about the same subject.
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Why should ANYONE like a union but the member? I asked in a previous post; what do unions do for society? When we express that view we are accused of "bashing". I know of NO ONE that dislikes American products in a general sense as we all want to support our fellow countrymen. Our countrymen must offer reasonable cost for reasonable quality products. Ten times the cost of imports is not going to get it. The auto industry sets the public perception of quality for all products and I think all here can agree the so-called domestics have stunk it up several times and sullied their reputations. MM
 
Hey mike, i'll bet you were one of those kids that used to get there a!! kicked in high school, lol, lol. Maybe you are a greedy business owner, or maybe an x union member who got kicked out, or maybe tryed to become a union member to have a decent wage, benefits, and weren't able to become one. Maybe you should move to china and try to make a decent living there. gotta go now my 15 minute break is over.
 
Alot of the underwater LED lights that are sold are made in China. Some being a top name brand.Just saying to keep a close eye on what you buy.
 
sfergson727 said:
I said car, not truck. There is a difference, you know? I've owned many chevrolet trucks, but their cars are crap. As are their light SUV's. The tahoe and Suburban are good, but the rest...well, I think they are trash.
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Scott, when you get some time please take a trip over to the chevy dealer and drive a Cruze, Malibu or Camero. They are very well put together and actually fun to drive. If those cars don't do anything for you head over to the caddy dealer and drive a CTS or CTS-V. Of course the corvette is an amazing machine. So, before anyone bashes GM' cars, go take a test drive.... I think you will be very suprized. A little bit of compatition from the other guys did a lot of good for GM.
 
Here is a good example of Union work in Detroit..

DETROIT — Ford is recalling more than 128,000 Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan sedans from the 2010 and 2011 model years because the wheels can fall off the cars.

The recall affects only cars with 17-inch steel wheels built from April 1, 2009 through April 30, 2009, and from Dec. 1, 2009 through Nov. 13, 2010.
 
Here is a good example of Union work in Detroit..

DETROIT — Ford is recalling more than 128,000 Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan sedans from the 2010 and 2011 model years because the wheels can fall off the cars.

The recall affects only cars with 17-inch steel wheels built from April 1, 2009 through April 30, 2009, and from Dec. 1, 2009 through Nov. 13, 2010.
 
autovette said:
Here is a good example of Union work in Detroit..

DETROIT — Ford is recalling more than 128,000 Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan sedans from the 2010 and 2011 model years because the wheels can fall off the cars.

The recall affects only cars with 17-inch steel wheels built from April 1, 2009 through April 30, 2009, and from Dec. 1, 2009 through Nov. 13, 2010.
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Not sticking up for the union but…is that a design problem or did the assembly line workers do something wrong???
 
autovette said:
Here is a good example of Union work in Detroit..

DETROIT — Ford is recalling more than 128,000 Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan sedans from the 2010 and 2011 model years because the wheels can fall off the cars.

The recall affects only cars with 17-inch steel wheels built from April 1, 2009 through April 30, 2009, and from Dec. 1, 2009 through Nov. 13, 2010.
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Being on the engineering side of building the car I would have to blame the Ford engineers on that one. They must not have set up the proper process controls in their plant, or, there was a design flaw, or, purchasing bought inferior parts.

I don't think we can blame the union on this one.

FYI, when you build something as complex as a car, there will be recalls... Just ask Toyota.


Woops, I think Jack beat me to it.
 
I was gonna sit on the sidelines with this thread but this is too juicy. I do agree that Unions have outlived their usefullness. When they were used to abate dangerous unsafe working conditions their need was obviously justified. Since the creation of OSHA, that need has been erased. However, even OSHA has run amuck with regulation and fines for petty infractions and only further burden U.S. businesses with excessive costs (try and work commercial construction these days and deal with OSHA compliance and Unions and you will figure out why only corporations can hardly afford to build a factory or plant for expansion). Pick one or the other, Unions or OSHA IMO. Todays Unions are used purely to strong-arm employers into excessive wages and benefits. I don't believe it takes $30-$40 plus benefits to screw in lug nuts on a line or to unclog a toilet or to fix a light switch just because you've been doing it for a decade. Broadened skill sets expand your marketability and demand in the economy and thus can and should dictate your compensation either working for yourself or someone else. I agree with Monaco Mike that we have priced ourselves out of jobs. Free Market capitalism rewards and pushes innovation to create the winners wether its a mom and pop business or an entire country. I'd be willing to bet a pastrami sandwich that Mike is a John Galt fan too!
Dan
 
I have to take issue with Scott's, Mike's and GFC's blanket condemnation of American automobiles. I have owned both Japanese and American autos/SUVs in the past 15 years and the best have been American brands and the worst was a Japanese luxury brand assembled in Canada.

So what is the American content in our Sea Rays? My 320 had two foreign made components that I know off. The props were made in the Phillipines and the Kohler generator was powered by a Kawasaki engine. I don't know if the Raymarine electronics are made here or abroad but other than these items I think the rest of the boat consisted of domestic components, materials and labor. So why in our discussions of "American Made" has there been little mention of boats? I have seen several threads in the past 2 years I have been a member of this forum about people from other countries coming here specifically to buy an American made boat. Maybe it's due to the price, design and quality of Sea Rays made here being superior to what is available elsewhere. Are US boat manufactures union or non-union shops?
 
I read that Connie wanted to leave Michigan because of the Unions and the pressure was coming the more successful they were. AZ was the first step, then FL then TN. I don't believe they are, Mike.
 
My Dad worked a trucking company that was never Union.....when that was sold he then worked for a Union Company....could never fire the bad workers. That's what I've seen in public education so far and I've only been here three years...BTW, It's lunch time and I only pay my "fair share", Mike.
 
sfergson727 said:
Why do I get the feeling that you are thug who wants nothing more than to stick it to management for having the gall to hire you? This union member (and former MEC Rep) is with Mike on this one.
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You are confusing me here. I dont think anyone here sounds like they have a bad attitude regarding their company but you seem put off by a few guys here that are pro-union. Pro union doesnt mean anti-company by default. We know airline pilots would be making about $10 hour right now without the unions.

On the one hand, you seem to dislike the union worker. On the other, you were certainly more receptive of that union when it came to your earnings and benefits, some of which were the best in the industry until the last few years. As a former MEC rep I have total respect for you but your tone here confuses me. I think you know that many many union workers are top notch hard working individuals with specialized training. But nontheless, specialized training does NOT guarantee a fair wage. It may in fact, LIMIT wages, because management knows that workers that have specialized training are also boxed into their craft, which is to say, an airline pilot is not going to find much work of any potential in other specialized fields. That gives management leverage, they know that you have nowhere else to go. They can chip away at your pay and benefits because they know you arent going to give up 15 years seniority and start over at the bottom of a seniority list making 25K a year as a first year FO at another carrier. They can (and DO) play this game with workers with special skill-sets EVEN MORE EFFECTIVELY than the guy that cleans toilets. So the union doesnt just protect the uneducated blue collar worker that has a bad attitude. The unions protect highly skilled individuals that deserve to earn decent pay due to their skills, but that ironically, due to their skills, are boxed into their craft, and have few places to go. This limited ability to move from company to company can and does, allow management to abuse their position.

Ironically, the union also protects the company and the public by keeping wages at a level that attract talented people into the profession. That said, management would gladly take away benefits and pay knowing full well you arent going to leave, there is nowhere to go and they know it. Yes there are some bad apples in any union, but on the whole, I think you should be a strong advocate for unions, perhaps more than anyone here on this forum. I dont believe any profession has been helped more by unions than that of the pilot profession.

And before the anti-union guys start up with "thats why airlines arent profitable" BS, dont even try it. Southwest pilots are union, they make top wages, the company treats them right, and wow, low and behold, they have been the most successful airline in US history. Pilot wages have never been a factor in any airline's profitability. Poor management and fuel prices are #1 and #2. CEOs make in a year what the average pilot would make in 10 lifetimes but clearly that isnt even enough, they are always on the lookout for a way to shave off a benefit here or there for their employees.
 
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