Big 3 Auto Bailout?

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by Four Suns, Dec 4, 2008.

Should taxpayers bail out the big 3 automakers as they asked for in DC this week?

  1. Yes

    44 vote(s)
    26.2%
  2. No

    124 vote(s)
    73.8%
  1. Four Suns

    Four Suns Head Pot Stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    Zodiac ProJet Dinghy
    Yamaha 110vx WaveRunner
    QSM-11 Diesels
    If it is in your bilge, it *must* be spark proof or it shouldn't be there as it's not ignition protected. This is another excerpt from ABYC:
    11.5.1.2.2.8. "Ignition Protected," if applicable.
    This shall be identified by a marking such as "SAE
    J1171 Marine," "UL Marine-Ignition Protected," or
    "Ignition Protected."
    The cover is not the issue... it's the receptacle... That receptacle is not ignition protected. The cover and receptacle is meant for outdoor use but not in gas fumes.
     
  2. mrsrobinson

    mrsrobinson Well-Known Member

    Mar 9, 2006
    Richmond, Virginia
    2006 Monterey 302 - Sold
    2000 Monterey 302 - Sold
    1995 Sea Ray 330DA - Sold
    2001 Regal 3780 - Sold
    Big ones
    Understood

    So, I remove it and then what? Do I simply splice the AC wire from the panel directly into the wire from the heater?
     
  3. Four Suns

    Four Suns Head Pot Stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    Zodiac ProJet Dinghy
    Yamaha 110vx WaveRunner
    QSM-11 Diesels
    If you have the heater mounted permanently, then you need to do a permanent install with wire/crimps that follow ABYC guidelines. If it's a temp thing you put in the bilge, have the receptacle you use outside the engine room. That's why those things come with long cords.

    You may want to check and make sure they used proper stranded/tinned wire and not solid copper wire on what they installed.

    Or you could just get a diesel boat... then you can put Christmas Tree lights on your engines and plug them into the in-bilge outlet.
     
  4. mrsrobinson

    mrsrobinson Well-Known Member

    Mar 9, 2006
    Richmond, Virginia
    2006 Monterey 302 - Sold
    2000 Monterey 302 - Sold
    1995 Sea Ray 330DA - Sold
    2001 Regal 3780 - Sold
    Big ones
    I originally used the outlet outside. However it works off of the "Outlets" breaker at the panel. When running the Caframo heater in the cabin, plugged to an inside outlet, the breaker would flip if both were on. That is why we asked the shop to hard wire it in with it's own breaker.

    The heater is screwed in but can easily be removed.

    I am thinking maybe remove the box and receptacle from the engine compartment, pull the wire thru to the outside, reconnect the wire to the box and plug the heater in outside. Or, I think I could disconnect the wire running to the current outside outlet and use the wire running to the heater box instead. That way that outlet is on it's own breaker. I guess if I was real good I could open up the panel and connect the current outisde outlet wire to the breaker for the engine compartment outlet.

    Per the invoice the wire is "AC wire 3 strand 10'" so I do not know if they used proper stranded/tinned wire. Once the wire is disconnected from the box/receptacle is there something I can look at to check?
     
  5. dpmulvey

    dpmulvey New Member

    Dec 19, 2007
    Homeport: Charles City, VA
    1999/2007 330 Sundancer Hardtop.
    6.2 Merc Horixons
    1.5:1 Velvet Drives
    Greg,

    Without reading 23 pages of "Stuff" have you checked the breaker? It may be worn and in need of replacement. Someone smarter than me could tell you how to test it, however I load up my gennie at least twice per month and run the Caframo, a 1500 watt ceramic heater and 75 watts of golden rods off the outlets. Never popped it.

    If the breaker is OK, you could place another electric outlet with its own breaker in the cockpit and run the ER heater to that plug. That will also allow you to run the kickazzz stereotheatersystem along side the flat screen w/o worrying about the breaker.

    Just a thought.
     
  6. comsnark

    comsnark New Member

    Apr 10, 2007
    NJ Shore
    SeaRay SunSport
    5.7LX
    Wait a second. . .we are now talking about something very boating related.

    This is the holding tank! Take it to the maintenance section!

    (Just kidding - - -Carry on!)
     
  7. mrsrobinson

    mrsrobinson Well-Known Member

    Mar 9, 2006
    Richmond, Virginia
    2006 Monterey 302 - Sold
    2000 Monterey 302 - Sold
    1995 Sea Ray 330DA - Sold
    2001 Regal 3780 - Sold
    Big ones
    Yeah, but we are way off topic, oh well.

    David I will tell you the details later or just call me.
     
  8. Presentation

    Presentation Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Wisconsin - Winnebago Pool chain of lakes
    280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
    twin 5.0's w/BIII drives

    Gary,

    Since you said you are curious, we may have the plug you are seeking.

    I do not go by ‘ignition protected’ I let the customer tell me what hazardous location they are in (class and division) the number of poles, amperage and voltage then based on their answers I recommend a plug for them.

    MaxGuard plugs and receptacles would be class I division I rated and are USCG approved. Everything is threaded with very specific high precision tolerance, there are a very specific number of threads and the connection is ‘interlocked’ meaning once mated the connection can not be twisted and pulled apart until a fail safe internal locking mechanism is manually released.

    Keep in mind that the footprint is unique. Only a MaxGard plug will mate with a MaxGuard receptacle.

    One 30 Amp, 2 pole, 3 wire 125V AC female receptacles would be DS3107MP000 and is only two grand each.
     

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  9. Four Suns

    Four Suns Head Pot Stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    Zodiac ProJet Dinghy
    Yamaha 110vx WaveRunner
    QSM-11 Diesels
    $2K for a plug...

    And I thought the SSB grounding plate was expensive....
     
  10. Presentation

    Presentation Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 3, 2006
    Wisconsin - Winnebago Pool chain of lakes
    280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
    twin 5.0's w/BIII drives

    You said you were curious. I assumed you wanted to know if such a thing existed.
     
  11. sbw1

    sbw1 Well-Known Member

    Oct 10, 2006
    West Michigan
    This is listed in my signature
    This is listed in my signature

    We had a pretty good experiment in Michigan today. I only saw a handful of rear wheel drive cars on the highway on the way to work today. All the rest were FWD or Crown Vics driven by sherrifs or the Mi State Police. Lots of semis in the ditches and one sherrif's car in a ditch as well. It's been one of those days that if you have to stop, you can't start very easily again. Fortunately the sun just came.
     
  12. Four Suns

    Four Suns Head Pot Stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    Zodiac ProJet Dinghy
    Yamaha 110vx WaveRunner
    QSM-11 Diesels
    Too bad Tiara doesn't make cars....
     
  13. jg300da

    jg300da New Member

    Oct 9, 2006
    None
    Your
    Business
    The term in the electrical world is "Explosion Proof" not ignition protected. There is a full line of explosion proof fittings, boxes, etc available for wiring in hazardous conditions.
    My question is how "exactly" is the SJ cord that comes with the Extreme heater connected to the heater itself? What process does the manufacturer use to insure ignition protection at that point? How is the SJ cord sealed as it enters the enclosure?.
     
  14. Four Suns

    Four Suns Head Pot Stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    Zodiac ProJet Dinghy
    Yamaha 110vx WaveRunner
    QSM-11 Diesels
    Not the way ABYC views it. Here are a few notes:

    2. It is not intended to require such devices to be
    "explosion proof" as that term is defined in the
    National Electrical Code of the NFPA pertaining to
    shore systems.

    4. Devices that are "explosion proof" are considered to be ignition protected when installed with the appropriate fittings to maintain their "explosion proof" integrity.
    ABYC defines "ignition protected"...
     
  15. mrsrobinson

    mrsrobinson Well-Known Member

    Mar 9, 2006
    Richmond, Virginia
    2006 Monterey 302 - Sold
    2000 Monterey 302 - Sold
    1995 Sea Ray 330DA - Sold
    2001 Regal 3780 - Sold
    Big ones
    Is there a certification that a surveyor can hold that allows them to determine if something on a vessel is within APYC guidelines?
     
  16. jg300da

    jg300da New Member

    Oct 9, 2006
    None
    Your
    Business
    Understood. My point was that by going to an electrical supply house and purchasing explosion proof fittings you can safely perform wiring installs. I think the level of protection is similar just different terminology.
     
  17. Pseudomind

    Pseudomind Active Member

    Jul 1, 2008
    Jacksonville, FL
    2011 Hurricane with Magic Tilt Trailer
    115 HP Yamaha Four Stroke
    Is this thread a little off-track?

    I would bear this in mind though about an electrical outlet in the bilge...Think "insurance," and if there is a fire for some reason...well...claim denied possibly...you know...you know. I"mm aaaaaaaaaaah jus sayin' :huh:
     
  18. mrsrobinson

    mrsrobinson Well-Known Member

    Mar 9, 2006
    Richmond, Virginia
    2006 Monterey 302 - Sold
    2000 Monterey 302 - Sold
    1995 Sea Ray 330DA - Sold
    2001 Regal 3780 - Sold
    Big ones
    A little OT

    Out of college I worked for an Insurance company in their claims dept. They trained me to be the 'fire specialist'. The job stunk, but this part was cool as I got to go watch them burn cars and houses. Never saw them burn a boat though.

    These guys are good and can usually tell you exactly where the fire started and what the cause is.

    BTW, one of the most common ways to intentionally burn a car is to place a bag of chips under the seat and then ignite the bag.
     
  19. sbw1

    sbw1 Well-Known Member

    Oct 10, 2006
    West Michigan
    This is listed in my signature
    This is listed in my signature
    Still obsessing about owning your dream boat one day I see.
     
  20. wileecoyote

    wileecoyote Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    949
    Oct 18, 2008
    Southern MD/ Potomac river
    1989 340 EC
    7.4LX2 Hurth 630A Drives
    6.5Kw QS Genny
    What kind of car do you drive? I'm certain your boat is neither hyrogen, CNG, or electric. You have to look at the sales of Hybrids (the savior according to treehuggers everywhere) I love to hear all the Senators and Rep's talk about driving my Durango, or my Tahoe to these hearings. Sales on Hybrids are dismal, not because no one produces them, but because no one buys them. Everyone likes to spout about how no one makes enough Hybrids or electric vehicles, etc.... They can't afford to because there is no profit in them! I love how libs say we need more alternate fuel cars. So others can drive them.
    You Crack me Up!
     

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