Big 3 Auto Bailout?

Should taxpayers bail out the big 3 automakers as they asked for in DC this week?

  • Yes

    Votes: 44 26.2%
  • No

    Votes: 124 73.8%

  • Total voters
    168
That's a lot of nonsense that RWD isn't any good on hills in snow. I've pulled FWD cars and Jeeps out of drifts with my '72 Imperial. Stuck in traffic on Rt 80 in the Poconos many years ago, I saw a full-sized Ford Bronco running up the center median in at least a foot of snow, knocking down the drifts. Figured if he could do it, so could I. I pulled the Imperial out onto the median behind the Bronco and drove a mile or two through the deep snow past where the three jackknifed trucks were blocking the highway and continued on my way.

She was one of my favorite cars and I'm sorry I got rid of her. Looked like this one. With her 440, torqueflite transmission, limited slip rear, and 1st generation Bendix ABS, not much bothered her.

The downside to RWD in bad weather is that you have to pay attention. FWD is better for the masses, I'll grant you.

Best regards,
Frank C
 
That's a lot of nonsense that RWD isn't any good on hills in snow. I've pulled FWD cars and Jeeps out of drifts with my '72 Imperial. Stuck in traffic on Rt 80 in the Poconos many years ago, I saw a full-sized Ford Bronco running up the center median in at least a foot of snow, knocking down the drifts. Figured if he could do it, so could I. I pulled the Imperial out onto the median behind the Bronco and drove a mile or two through the deep snow past where the three jackknifed trucks were blocking the highway and continued on my way.

She was one of my favorite cars and I'm sorry I got rid of her. Looked like this one. With her 440, torqueflite transmission, limited slip rear, and 1st generation Bendix ABS, not much bothered her.

The downside to RWD in bad weather is that you have to pay attention. FWD is better for the masses, I'll grant you.

Best regards,
Frank C

I'm with you on this one Frank. I learned how to drive in the snow in a RWD drive car. No antilocks. Just takes a little concentration and anticipaiton.
 
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That's a lot of nonsense that RWD isn't any good on hills in snow. I've pulled FWD cars and Jeeps out of drifts with my '72 Imperial. Stuck in traffic on Rt 80 in the Poconos many years ago, I saw a full-sized Ford Bronco running up the center median in at least a foot of snow, knocking down the drifts. Figured if he could do it, so could I. I pulled the Imperial out onto the median behind the Bronco and drove a mile or two through the deep snow past where the three jackknifed trucks were blocking the highway and continued on my way.

She was one of my favorite cars and I'm sorry I got rid of her. Looked like this one. With her 440, torqueflite transmission, limited slip rear, and 1st generation Bendix ABS, not much bothered her.

The downside to RWD in bad weather is that you have to pay attention. FWD is better for the masses, I'll grant you.

Best regards,
Frank C
lol...big difference between a 72 tank and today's lightweight rwd cars without posi or beefy trans. My parents 500sl rwd mb wont go up even the slightest incline. Neither will most rwd cars these days. They dont make 'em like the used to.
 
Tell ya guys what. Grab whatever modern rwd car ya want, come on up here when we have a good say 8" snow storm.

I will bet, in all seriousness, say $500 you dont make it up the 5 mile hill to my house. You can ask a local person to my area to do it for ya if you want.

As a side bet, Ill bet $50 to make it interesting, they end up in the ditch at some point :grin:

There has been many a car left at the bottom during storms because it is safer.
 
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lol...big difference between a 72 tank and today's lightweight rwd cars without posi or beefy trans. My parents 500sl rwd mb wont go up even the slightest incline. Neither will most rwd cars these days. They dont make 'em like the used to.

My 90 Lincoln Town Car was 90% as good as the Imperial, but you felt that half-ton weight deficit. The Mark VIIIs don't do well even with traction control, but the performance tires don't help. Her Jag is OK, but again, the tires are not good winter tires. I'd switch the tires on the cars, but when the weather is bad, I work from home and we use the Navigator.

Best regards,
Frank
 
Kind of a silly argument. We have delivery trucks stuck on our hill all the time. They make it half way up and start sliding sideways and go off the road. Same thing with old clunkers the kids drive. I'll take a modern car with front or awd anyday in this climate. We will pick up 10 to 12 inches of snow over the next two days. I'm not plowing my drive at 5:30 in the morning to get to work.
 
Tell ya guys what. Grab whatever modern rwd car ya want, come on up here when we have a good say 8" snow storm.

I will bet, in all seriousness, say $500 you dont make it up the 5 mile hill to my house. You can ask a local person to my area to do it for ya if you want.

As a side bet, Ill bet $50 to make it interesting, they end up in the ditch at some point :grin:

There has been many a car left at the bottom during storms because it is safer.

If my buddy hadn't traded his 300 C with tration control, I'd take you up on that. Couldn't break that thing free for nothin'. Of course they stole that technology from Mercedes.

I had a RWD drive Explorer (I was young and dumb and saved $5,000 vs. 4 wheel drive) that sucked in the snow, until I tried adding 500# of sand over the rear axel. Then it was unstoppable. So I agree that the weight makes a difference, but you can fix that.

I never said it RWD was better or easier, just that you could do it.
 
My 90 Lincoln Town Car was 90% as good as the Imperial, but you felt that half-ton weight deficit. The Mark VIIIs don't do well even with traction control, but the performance tires don't help. Her Jag is OK, but again, the tires are not good winter tires. I'd switch the tires on the cars, but when the weather is bad, I work from home and we use the Navigator.

Best regards,
Frank
Hmmm...you make a good point about the tires these days too. It seems most cars come with highway performance tires which typically suck in the snow.

I dont recall, but years ago, were everyday tires better in the snow than today's everyday stock tires that come on cars? Did we suffer loss of traction for snow when we started the performance tire trend?

Interesting.
 
Kind of a silly argument. We have delivery trucks stuck on our hill all the time. They make it half way up and start sliding sideways and go off the road. Same thing with old clunkers the kids drive. I'll take a modern car with front or awd anyday in this climate. We will pick up 10 to 12 inches of snow over the next two days. I'm not plowing my drive at 5:30 in the morning to get to work.

No argument is silly! :grin:
 
If my buddy hadn't traded his 300 C with tration control, I'd take you up on that. Couldn't break that thing free for nothin'. Of course they stole that technology from Mercedes.

I had a RWD drive Explorer (I was young and dumb and saved $5,000 vs. 4 wheel drive) that sucked in the snow, until I tried adding 500# of sand over the rear axel. Then it was unstoppable. So I agree that the weight makes a difference, but you can fix that.

I never said it RWD was better or easier, just that you could do it.

Id love to do an experiment with several rwd cars and see who can make it up a hill the best/farthest. I wonder if there are any tests to google and find out...im on it
 
Id love to do an experiment with several rwd cars and see who can make it up a hill the best/farthest. I wonder if there are any tests to google and find out...im on it

Count me out. The Imperial was long ago junked and recycled into a couple toyodas.
 
You do that. I'm goling to head home from work in the freezing rain and see how my 4WD handles ice. Yippeee.

Good luck.

I am going to take the garbage out.:smt038
 
This just in.

The financial consultant, hired by GM that determined GM must get a government bailout by the end of they year or they would run out of money and close their doors was told his payment for his analysis would not be paid until the middle of January.

Do to this news the financial consultant has given GM another 30 days before it closes its doors.
 
This just in.

The financial consultant, hired by GM that determined GM must get a government bailout by the end of they year or they would run out of money and close their doors was told his payment for his analysis would not be paid until the middle of January.

Do to this news the financial consultant has given GM another 30 days before it closes its doors.

Please close the doors, please close the doors....

I should rephrase this, please allow them to work this out on their own, no gov't intervention.
 
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I also heard the guys working in the jobs bank were going to strike.


I heard that too Gary.

The workers have put forth a strong case for changes that will save costs, be good for the environment and help the children.

The argument is this. Say you do a job and this job takes 8 hours. If I can do the same job in 4 hours I should get paid twice as much or only have to work 4 hour days.

Since the workers in the job bank technically don’t do anything they would like to reduce their hours to 0.

They are proposing that they be allowed to work from home, or from on their boat, or from where ever they happen to be. Again, since they don’t do anything it should not matter where they are when they are not working.

There is an additional cost savings for the auto company. Since they are no longer going to work they are not taking up a parking space in the parking lot, taking up room in the facilities, no need for the employer to provide a work space for them. Due to the cost savings the workers are demanding a 15% pay raise.

This idea has the support of the environmentalists because the workers will not have to commute to work; this lowers the size of their carbon footprint.

Allowing the workers to stay home will also be good for the children. The children! How can anyone be against anything that is good for children?

Finally, the employees are demanding to be allowed to do these non-jobs simultaneously at all three domestic auto workers.

I think the workers demands have a lot of merit and this needs to be considered.

My understanding is the only issue that is holding this up is how they will measure overtime pay. Say if GM does not need the non-working employee to work on Christmas day. Will GM need to pay the employee double time for not working 8 hours or 12? I think they should each meet in the middle and pay the workers for 10 hours for not showing up if they don’t need them. Problem solved!

I hope no one here will come out against this. It’s a great idea. For the children!
 
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