410DA Purchase

Dominic-

Seagull knows best what you can expect from your engines, but like Frank, my Cats burn zero oil between changes. In fact, I get complacent about checking the oil sometimes because they always read full on the mark.

Enjoy!

Jeff
 
My crystal ball says if you'll fix the uphill vent hose, you may stop vent oil from going down the valve guides and into the cylinders where it is burned and that your oil consumption will probably go away.
 
fwebster said:
My crystal ball says if you'll fix the uphill vent hose, you may stop vent oil from going down the valve guides and into the cylinders where it is burned and that your oil consumption will probably go away.
Click to expand...

And less smoke............. :grin:

smoke.jpg
 
Right or wrong, it seems like the routing of this hose from the crankcase breather to the airsep is standard for Cat. I have MY 2000 (pictured below), Dominic is about to have MY 2003, PMvdb395DA's picture from Caterpillar, etc. all show the hose going over the valve cover, not behind it like Frank suggests (which don't get me wrong, makes sense). In fact, in Dominic's case, Cat has gone to the extent of installing a retaining ring to hold the hose in that position. But even with my layout, I don't use noticeable oil between changes.

I'm going to have to study this layout the next time I'm at the yard working on MissT and see if there is any way to lower the hose between the valve cover and the coolant expansion tank.

By the way Domonic...that space between those Cats is the perfect size for carrying two Montague folding mountain bikes!

Jeff
 
The discussion on oil consumption is really interesting. My Cummins used about 1/ 2 quart each in 147 hours of operation. I run them consistently at 2100 rpms (2600 is wot) and occasionally I will run them between 2400 and wot for a few minutes just because I like the, uh, sound and feel of 45' and 28K Lbs of Sea Ray turning 31 knots!
I believe my oil consumption is not an issue, but it will be interesting to see how we do this season as regards oil usage. I switched form whatever the dealer used to service the boat before delivery to Shell Rotella T 15 W 40. I hope to run 150 hours this upcoming season (I'd have been at 165 this year had it not been for a few inconvenient tropical storms)

regards
Skip
 
I called to confirm the engine survey with the CAT technician. I briefly discussed the Airsep hose and he said that he would take a look at it tomorrow. I will post his response.

Also, I asked about what oil I should use. He said that CAT has their own oil but that I didn't have to use CAT oil. He recommended Rotella T 30 straight weight for this area of the country. He said that if I were further south like SC or FL, to use T 40. Where do you guys get the best price for the Rotell oil?
 
I use Rotella in the generator and at just under 1 gallon per oil change, I don't keep track of what I pay. You can get it at Wal-Mart or any auto parts store. I can't comment on Rotella performance in the mains however, but I will share what I use in case you are interested:

I use the Special Application Engine Oil (SAEO) 30W formulated by CAT specifically for the 3116 and 3126 marine engines. I pay $12.83/gallon and use 13 gallons (6.5 each engine) per oil change. I pay $10.74 for the CAT oil filters in case you wondered that also. If memory serves me, the Rotella might be about $1.00 cheaper/gallon.

This link may explain what CAT believes the advantages are:

http://www.cat.com/cda/components/securedFile/displaySecuredFileServletJSP?fileId=89966&languageId=7

Jeff
 
I use Shell Rotella T in my engines......but the SAEO oil is a good oil, its just ridiculously expensive down here...like $17/gal. I buy Rotella in 5 gallon pails for about $37/5 gal. from a local oil distributor.

The link given above is for the product data sheet from Caterpillar on the SAEO. Cat's site also gives current lubricant specs....try this:

http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticle?m=37675&x=7&id=149474

But, if it does not work, go to cat.com, select "products" then "parts", then "fluids", then look for tech bulletin # SEBU6251-09, dated 12/05 which covers marine engine fluids. There are 58 pages covering all the marine engines, so go to page 9-10 which is for only the 3116/3126.

The need for the SAEO, which is a synthetic oil, is to eliminate viscosity improvers which is in the standard additive pack for multi viscosity oils like 15W40. Viscosity improvers seem to clog up the aftercooler with deposits which must be occasionally cleaned out (kind of expensive). Single viscosity SAE 30 or 40 Rotella T meets the specification established for 3116/3126 engines and its specs are almost identical to the SAEO.

According to Caterpillar, they'd love to sell you the SAEO, but either oil is acceptable.
 
Well...just got home from a LONG day doing ( actually watching) the engine survey and 250 hours service. Boy did I learn a lot. Anyway, the tech checked EVERYTHING. He adjusted the valves and the injectors. He cleaned the AirSeps. He changed the impellers (both were chopped up a bit and missing very tiny pieces of one vane). He changed all 9 zincs on each engine, he checked the Intake vacuum and fuel pressure, etc, etc. He took Engine oil and Antifreeze samples and transmission oil samples. He checked the charging systems (starboard engine alternator is bad and needs to be replaced, I had noticed the dash mounted guage not reading correctly on delivery and now it is confirmed). I asked about the AirSep hose and said that it was fine as is. He said that I should run these engines at 2400RPM cruise....no less than 2300 but he strongly recommended 2400....sea conditions permitting of course....and the admiral not yelling to SLOW DOWN. He said that I should run them up to full throtle when I ever I get the chance and not to worry......they can take it. He was very much an "ol' school" kind of tech. Both engines failed the pressure test on the closed cooling side. He found small leaks that were fixed by simply tightening down on hose clamps and then both passed the test second time around.....We ran the boat up to full throttle. He measured Max RPM with a digital light tach. We reached (and I'm going from memory here) around 2815 P - 2835 S. He would have liked a little more and suggested having the props worked a little. He said I was within Spec, but just that he would like to see 2850 RPM. Because they are in spec, I think I live with it for the first year, play with the trim and get used to the boat before I fix something that is in spec. MM is going to change the Oil, Oil Filters on the Mains and genie, change the AF on mains and genie, change the fuel filters (primary and secondary) on the mains and genie and change the oil and clean the screens on the transmissions this week before they winterize.

We have to see if the alternator is warrantied, and if not MM will just replace it. No oil, AF or transmission leaks.

Tech suggested Rotella T 30 oil and said that I shouldn't really expect to burn any noticable amount of oil (1/2 quart out of 26.5 quarts in 50 hours run time fits in the "not noticable" category).

I have one question to all 410DA owners with the CAT engines...at idle, do you have a "GOOD" amount of water coming out of the above water exhaust ports. I am getting a Trickle from the port engine and virtually ZERO from the starboard. If I goose the throttles, I get plenty...but nothing at idle.....every gas boat I have owned and all that I remember, including some diesel, had/have great water flow from these ports....the tech checked everything, including changing the impellers, and temps are all right on the money....just no water flow at idle....any thoughts.....
 
That exhaust water flow puzzles me. I have what I think you would consider a "good" amount of water flow at idle. From a trickle to none doesn't seem right. The boats on both side of me are a Regal and a Tiara, both with diesels. They too have good water flow at idle. In fact on my boat, I have as much or more water than I did with gas 330DA at idle, but what I notice is greater pressure ejecting the water (no doubt due to the size of those impellers).

Of course, my first thought would be the impellers, but those were changed out. Did the cams in the pumps look good? A long shot could be marine growth in the exhaust (not likely) that at low RPM's forces the exhaust out the bottom tubes. The engine temperature at idle should stay low quite a while when first starting. My CAT tech said with the closed cooling, they have worked on engines with the boat on the hard and let them run 10 - 20 minutes with the impellers removed.

Anxious to hear what other 410 owners have to say.
 
Dom,
ImpulseIII passes almost no water thru the above water exhausts at idle. If I bring the revs up to 850 or higher, I have as much water as I had with the 8.1's in my 340. I have had several people (including mechanics) comment that the water flow should be greater than it is but as soon as I show them what happens when I rev her up, they scratch their heads and go away! I had the local Cat mechanic look at it and he was fine with what he saw so I guess you (and I for that matter) are OK. I have changed the impellers and the water flow remained constant. After three seasons and no overheating issues, I guess we're OK.

Sounds like things are going well with the new boat. Looking forward to seeing you next summer on the Chesapeake. I like Skips idea of the bunch of us hooking up.
 
Frank:

You made my day.....MY 410DA acts the exact same way...rev it up and you get PLENTY of water...at idle...virtually zero...that was my ONLY stumbling block......

I am meeting with the salesman at my house tomorrow night to have a go at the FINAL details of closing....so long as he puts ALL of my concerns in black and white, we should be closing before the new year....

MM has a getaway scheduled for the Baltimor Inner harbor next fourth of July.....we have always gone to AC for the 4th, but I will try and convince the admiral ....maybe we can talk a certain 58 footer into making the trip....
 
At this point in time Baltimore works for us. My guess is that on the fourth, the Inner Harbor will be a zoo though. Good luck with MM tomorrow. :thumbsup:
 
The CAT tech at work...he and his helper worked from 8AM until around 4:30PM non stop...I bought lunch and they ate while they worked.....my hats off to these guys....Helper/Trainee is changing zincs....Tech is adjusting the valve lash and injector timing...
 

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Hey Dominic,
You already know this, but the CAT tech time is the best $$ you have spent on this deal. I was absolutely amazed at how much the Cummins Tech knew about my engines, and the thorough going over he gave them. It was an absolutely priceless education. He came back and did T-stats for me and valve lash for follow on service. I plan to have him out for port T-stats and a few other odds and ends this spring. The amazing thing to me was that he stayed in the engine room (hatch up) as we ran the 420 at WOT on the sea trial.
Baltimore sounds good to me this summer, unless we want to head for Solomons or the Hyatt in Cambridge...day spa for the ladies is always a plus.

regards
Skip
 
I called and spoke directly with a Sea Ray representative this afternoon and we discussed the low water flow from the exhaust. We had a good discussion and I am comfortable with the low flow at idle.

TC:

I forgot to mention...Thanks....I never would have noticed the Hatch Pump mounting bolt chaffing the raw water metal hose. It was in fact very worn and just a matter of time before it wore through. All other 410DA owners should take your advise and check that area. Anyway, because of your heads-up MM has agreed to purchase, paint and install a new hose. They have also agreed to wrap the new hose with a rubber hose in the area where the bolt rubs against the pipe...thanks again.
 
OK...The MM salesman was at my home last night and we both signed, what I would consider, to be a very detailed Post engine and hull survey acceptance/punch list. I am holding back a few $$$ until ALL the items on the list are completed. I am still waiting for the results from the oil, transmission and coolant samples to come back, but I don't really expect anything ground shaking...

As of now, the closing is scheduled for next Thursday....then we can finally close this thread.....and start a few new ones.. :grin: ...and I'll have to change my sig pictures too.....almost there.....
 
Dom -

If you don't mind me asking:

Is the 410 in inventory, so you are trading the 380 in?

How difficult was it to come to terms on the 380 trade, if that's what you are doing?

I've had some discussions on trades with MM, and the trade value the offered was just offensive.

Mike
 
Mike:

Yes the 410DA was a trade the MM took in and I traded in my 380A.

I have been working MM, and they me, since August....a few black eyes, but not permanent marks....it was ....fun.. :thumbsup:
 
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