Vetus Bow Thruster - Dead (?)

Think earlier you said 25V at the wires at the motors.

That is indicating charged batteries, so I wouldn't be suspecting voltage.


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Yes...25+ volts.
 
My friend thinks my problem is voltage - specifically, not enough. He says his reads 27 volts. Possibility???[/QUOTE]


[ That ] voltage reading would be due to the battery charger operating. If the charger is turned off momentarily then back on, the reading will go higher ~ 28.5 or so. FYI: Typical ProTech factory setting is to charge at full rate for the first two hrs on initial power-up, then go to " float charge " ( assuming batteries are in normal voltage range ). At a predetermined battery voltage drop, the charge rate will go back to " full rate ". FYI : The cycle times can be easily changed via DIP switches inside small access panel.....Tim
 
While I was in the ER messing with pinking the 3 motors today I glanced at the charger. Didn't seem to be drawing any current. Maybe the batteries are fully charged or maybe there's an issue with the charger. I don't know what breaker the charger is on - it does not have its own dedicated breaker. This bears investigation too - just no time for it today.
 
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rondds said:
While I was in the ER messing with pinking the 3 motors today I glanced at the charger. Didn't seem to be drawing any current. Maybe the batteries are fully charged or maybe there's an issue with the charger. I don't know what breaker the charger is on - it does not have its own dedicated breaker. This bears investigation too - just no time for it today.
Click to expand...

Ron, In your pic of the charger,the lower end has a viewing port. If you can get down there and view into that port you should see a minimum of one light ( green ). If not, then either the bulb is burned out or the charger is not operating. You can verify bulb integrity by momentarily shutting down power to the boat ( main AC breaker ). After re-powering. You should see three lights in the viewing port ( or less if a bulb is burned out ). If still no charger operation, I would look for another in-line fuse between charger & battery wiring. It is potentially a 25 amp fuse. This was done by SeaRay engineers not ProTech. If you have a bad cell or two in either of your 2 batteries, that will create excessive resistance in that line....Tim
 
Tim
The smaller charger to the left (Charles) is the one that handles the 2 batteries for the thruster. The pro-tech is for the 5 AGMs that handle house and starting. This was not a SR installation (Cap'n Rusty was good enough to pull the build sheet for me). The Charles was added later, at the time of the thruster install (this was done by one of the 3 previous owners of this boat - I don't know when it was done).
 
rondds said:
Tim
The smaller charger to the left (Charles) is the one that handles the 2 batteries for the thruster. The pro-tech is for the 5 AGMs that handle house and starting. This was not a SR installation (Cap'n Rusty was good enough to pull the build sheet for me). The Charles was added later, at the time of the thruster install (this was done by one of the 3 previous owners of this boat - I don't know when it was done).
Click to expand...
Ron, gotcha... I missed that in your pic. It's always a challenge to figure out what POs have done. Back to square one, if voltage is 25 + , that's only half of the the story when discussing DC systems. Battery integrity ( amp load ) capacity is equally important. If you have good voltage at the battery/ motor terminal regardless of what the charger amp meter displays ( those meters can be quite prone to malfunctioning) , then I would concentrate back on the solenoid/joystick possibilities as the problem. With proper voltage you should at least hear,see,smell activity. W/O going back in the thread, I think you had minimal use of the thruster. For a solenoid/relay to go " T U " on you is less likely then a connection issue.....Tim
 
Tim
I figure if the voltage is not up to snuff (due to bad battery), there'd be enough juice to click the solenoid but not enough to run the motor. In which case, as you stated, I'd hear SOMETHING coming from the area near the motor (at least a click).

I used the thruster twice to salvage a bad docking, once or twice to crab in to the fuel dock with an offshore breeze and twice during a raft-up. Besides that, I would run it just about every time out, just for sake of it - quick burst in each direction. Never acted quirky.
 
rondds said:
Tim
I figure if the voltage is not up to snuff (due to bad battery), there'd be enough juice to click the solenoid but not enough to run the motor. In which case, as you stated, I'd hear SOMETHING coming from the area near the motor (at least a click).

I used the thruster twice to salvage a bad docking, once or twice to crab in to the fuel dock with an offshore breeze and twice during a raft-up. Besides that, I would run it just about every time out, just for sake of it - quick burst in each direction. Never acted quirky.
Click to expand...

I periodically run mine as well when they've had little use. My stern thruster is really quiet & takes a little longer for the boat respond to inputs. One day it didn't respond, so I ck'd the fuse...good..... Then got on the swim platform and lowered it enough to investigate. Thought I was going to find barnacles, but turned to be a small branch had floated inside...:huh:
 
Did that break the shear pin?

Here's my unit...
VETUS BOW9524
 
rondds said:
Did that break the shear pin?

Here's my unit...
VETUS BOW9524
Click to expand...

No, I just removed the branch and that was it. Side Powers have a rubber coupling that serves the same purpose as a shear pin. I went through the first generation couplings Bow & Stern, prompting a call to the manufacture. " No, we haven't had any major problems with them, but a new more robust design is coming soon " Hmm..... I replaced both with the new ....huge difference between the two...Tim


Side note: if anyone ever has to change a coupling in a Stern Thruster configuration, heads up. Side Power's are assembled w Allen bolts. Once they are installed in the boat, there isn't sufficient room to back the bottom bolts out ( due to hitting the well that the motor sits in ) with the typical assortment of Allen tools. I cut off a short length of the Allen wrench, then slipped a ratcheting box wrench over the Allen tool allowing plenty of working room. On reassembly, I installed Hex head bolts for easier maintenance that might be needed in the future.
 
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Started researching the solenoid, just in case that's the problem. It was not an easy search but found a couple of sources - price is around $650!! Unreal.
 
rondds said:
Started researching the solenoid, just in case that's the problem. It was not an easy search but found a couple of sources - price is around $650!! Unreal.
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Ron, whoa ....I'm not an Vetus expert, but I don't want you to get taken. Please make sure it's not an issue with the Joy Stick /connection etc. If it is the solenoid, and I know you're researching, there has to be one attainable for 80 % less. It's nothing more then a relay, well, a reversible relay at that. The Right marina/shop has a good guy to make a reasonable deal. Good luck, Tim
 
Still haven't diagnosed it - will get to that this weekend. 3 sources on the internet, all around the same price.. Seems extremely excessive for a very simple widget that should probably cost about $40.
 
Before the weekend, if you haven't already, buy yourself a test light to carry out the tests posted by test lab. You should be able to get one with a 24V globe from a good auto store.

You can also get LED. Ones which are dual voltage. There are a couple of catches with the LEDs to be aware of though.
They are polarity sensitive, so need to ensue you have it hooked around the correct way.
They require very little current to illuminate, so you can get caught out fault finding in the same way you can with a multimeter. It may show that you have voltage but not if the circuit hasn't got enough current flowing through it. With a test light if the current is down the light will be dim because of the resistance in the globe.

For a few dollars it's a worthwhile tool to have on the boat, just buy a decent one.

I seem to remember the brother in laws solenoid being around the $300 mark


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Rob and I spent about 1/2 hour today troubleshooting. First we ran jumper cables from the battery directly to the motor. Quite a spark generated but the motor ran. Then we ran a test lead from battery to the upper solenoid. It clicked and the motor ran. Ran the lead to the lower solenoid and it too clicked and the motor ran. Isolated what wire did what form the joystick and found the joystick behavior erratic. Diagnosis: Bad joystick.

Took a closer look at the Charles 24v charger that is designated for the thruster batteries. No light on, no draw on the meter. Put the voltmeter on the AC IN side of the charger and got a big zero. Can't say it's a bad charger b/c there's no power TO the charger. Any suggestions for this one guys??
 
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rondds said:
Rob and I spent about 1/2 hour today troubleshooting. First we ran jumper cables from the battery directly to the motor. Quite a spark generated but the motor ran. Then we ran a test lead from battery to the upper solenoid. It clicked and the motor ran. Ran the lead to the lower solenoid and it too clicked and the motor ran. Isolated what wire did what form the joystick and found the joystick behavior erratic. Diagnosis: Bad joystick.

Took a closer look at the Charles 24v charger that is designated for the thruster batteries. No light on, no draw on the meter. Put the voltmeter on the AC IN side of the charger and got a big zero. Can't say it's a bad charger b/c there's no power TO the charger. Any suggestions for this one guys??
Click to expand...

Before you can go any further, obviously need to get power to the charger.

In an earlier post though you said you had 25v at the thruster, that is ample voltage.

It's a 24v battery system, so anything over that is charged.




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The non-powered converter is puzzling. Also wondering why the joystick went bad. Possible relationship?? I don't know where that converter (the Charles) gets it's power from. There is one breaker on the panel in the cabin that says "CONVERTER" but even with that breaker on and the other converter (the ProTech 4) functioning, there's no voltage to the Charles.

If you look at the pic below, the white wire coming out of the bottom of the Charles disappears into that bulkhead and is siliconed closed. I have to trace where it goes once inside the cabin. On the other side of that bulkhead is the mid cabin sofa, under which is the HWH. I'm wondering if they got power from the HWH circuit (?) There are breakers for PORT SYSTEMS and STARBOARD SYSTEMS on the panel but those were on today. The HWY breaker is OFF b/c the HWH is dry and winterized. Not a good idea to turn that breaker on at this point in time.

DSCN1844_zps36803ed4.jpg
 
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If you've got anti-freeze in the HWH (and even if you don't) I'd turn on that breaker to see if you had voltage to the charger. I don't think you can damage the HWH coil in the few moments it takes to see if you have voltage to the charger and it eliminates one source of trouble, or points to a potential solution.
 
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