The Official 450 Express Bridge Owners Club

Forrestkk said:
The weatherman lied to me today, said 65 and cloudy and it is 76 and sunny. Ughh, so I am faux boating sitting on the boat at my dock.

That said, starting to get down to the real little details to fix.

What the heck used to be here. Assuming it was to secure the door to the swim platform open??
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That's where my hydraulic swim lift controller is. The screw above it has a strap on mine that snaps to the door to hold it open as you stated.
 
Shoyrtt said:
I found this thread on the Trawler Forum about the Whale system. It sounds like you don't have to clean the box as often, but it will require you to have access to it for some cleaning. The Whale sump box also requires it to be vented, just like our current system. My hunch is the Admiral on our boat will still get a faint whiff of a sour sump box and I will still be cleaning it once a quarter. The other observation from the Trawler thread is the Whale system might be noisy and the "Gulper" pump takes a while to get the grey water out of the tank. In the Trawler thread it is mentioned that the Gulper pumps water out in "small gulps". The person said "...50 gulps would not be unexpected to empty my tank." Here is a link to the Trawler thread: "Whale Pump Problem"

After reading this, I'm not sure the Whale system is the panacea. Our existing system when clean, is nice and quite and pumps the grey water overboard quickly and efficiently. The only things I would change in the grey water system is to have the galley sink drain go directly overboard (a very popular modification to the Sundancers) and to relocate the sump box. When my sump pump fails, my thought is replace it with a newer box and sump pump and relocate it forward enough so I can actually see what I am doing. ;)
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This is really good information. I did some more research and have the same reservations. I’m at the boat now. There must have been an air lock in the sump pump because it is miraculously working again … for now!
 
keithmo said:
This is really good information. I did some more research and have the same reservations. I’m at the boat now. There must have been an air lock in the sump pump because it is miraculously working again … for now!
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I had that airlock issue for the salon AC sump pump. It would work fine for awhile and then just run without pumping water. Eventually, just had to replace the pump.
 
Forrestkk said:
The weatherman lied to me today, said 65 and cloudy and it is 76 and sunny. Ughh, so I am faux boating sitting on the boat at my dock.

That said, starting to get down to the real little details to fix.

What the heck used to be here. Assuming it was to secure the door to the swim platform open??
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Yes, that's where a 6" long clear vinyl strap is secured with a female snap fixture on the other end to snap onto the transom door snap stud to hold it open and against the side bulkhead.
 
Jack O'Brien said:
Yes, that's where a 6" long clear vinyl strap is secured with a female snap fixture on the other end to snap onto the transom door snap stud to hold it open and against the side bulkhead.
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I figured it out this weekend...my straps are hanging happily on the doors, so I guess the attachment points on the cockpit wall came off at some point.
 
Fuel tank cleaning. Anyone have this performed? Mechanic doing my PM believes my Racors need to be thoroughly serviced but strongly suggests tank cleaning/fuel polishing first. I don't believe tanks have inspection/access ports so perhaps access is through the level sender flange. Head space is tiny above the tanks. Thoughts?
 
Jack O'Brien said:
Fuel tank cleaning. Anyone have this performed? Mechanic doing my PM believes my Racors need to be thoroughly serviced but strongly suggests tank cleaning/fuel polishing first. I don't believe tanks have inspection/access ports so perhaps access is through the level sender flange. Head space is tiny above the tanks. Thoughts?
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Are your filters restricted?

Our fuel systems constantly recirculate fuel through the Racors and Spin-on filters. For all intents and purposes we are polishing all the time.

I do Diesel Stabil in the months when we aren't using the whole fuel load every month, then I shock treat with a biocide right before I do the annual filter change, run the boat for a few hours, then change filters and run DieselKleen for the normal season.

My filters are coming out red, not black and I didn't have to do any polishing/cleaning.

That said, if your filters are coming out slimy or black, or you have black sludge accumulating in the Racor bowls and it comes back right after you drain them, you may have to do something beyond just chemical treatment.

As far as tank access goes, those companies have pretty good ways at getting into the tanks without tearing stuff up. I bet they have something that will go into the filler, or they hook up to a fuel feed/return and do their work.
 
Forrestkk said:
Are your filters restricted?

Our fuel systems constantly recirculate fuel through the Racors and Spin-on filters. For all intents and purposes we are polishing all the time.

I do Diesel Stabil in the months when we aren't using the whole fuel load every month, then I shock treat with a biocide right before I do the annual filter change, run the boat for a few hours, then change filters and run DieselKleen for the normal season.

My filters are coming out red, not black and I didn't have to do any polishing/cleaning.

That said, if your filters are coming out slimy or black, or you have black sludge accumulating in the Racor bowls and it comes back right after you drain them, you may have to do something beyond just chemical treatment.

As far as tank access goes, those companies have pretty good ways at getting into the tanks without tearing stuff up. I bet they have something that will go into the filler, or they hook up to a fuel feed/return and do their work.
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Forrestkk said:
Are your filters restricted?

Our fuel systems constantly recirculate fuel through the Racors and Spin-on filters. For all intents and purposes we are polishing all the time.

I do Diesel Stabil in the months when we aren't using the whole fuel load every month, then I shock treat with a biocide right before I do the annual filter change, run the boat for a few hours, then change filters and run DieselKleen for the normal season.

My filters are coming out red, not black and I didn't have to do any polishing/cleaning.

That said, if your filters are coming out slimy or black, or you have black sludge accumulating in the Racor bowls and it comes back right after you drain them, you may have to do something beyond just chemical treatment.

As far as tank access goes, those companies have pretty good ways at getting into the tanks without tearing stuff up. I bet they have something that will go into the filler, or they hook up to a fuel feed/return and do their work.
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Haven't had any fuel related issues nor have I serviced my Racors but my yacht mgr allegedly keeps an eye on them. He changed the filters out a year ago. Cummins mechanic (25yr guy) doing my oil & PM this time came up with a number of items:
Stbd fuel lift pump replace
Clean air filters
Rebuild alternators (no output)
Replace port sea water pump
Rebuild all Racors (must tank clean first), filters have sludge & algae
Recall I'm handicapped not residing near the boat, can't do much diy.
 
Jack O'Brien said:
Haven't had any fuel related issues nor have I serviced my Racors but my yacht mgr allegedly keeps an eye on them. He changed the filters out a year ago. Cummins mechanic (25yr guy) doing my oil & PM this time came up with a number of items:
Stbd fuel lift pump replace
Clean air filters
Rebuild alternators (no output)
Replace port sea water pump
Rebuild all Racors (must tank clean first), filters have sludge & algae
Recall I'm handicapped not residing near the boat, can't do much diy.
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Boat is run avg 10hrs/month and fuel refills are usually done on "E" or near "E" on gauges. Experience tells me my reserve is 70-80 gal per tank.
 
Timely topic....I have been fighting "dirtier than usual" fuel for the last year or so. I just rebuilt all 5 racors (the rebuild kits are stupid expensive. Kinda pissed at Racor). Anyway, filter housings were very dirty. I've cleaned, rebuilt, new Racor filters & on engine filters. I have been treating the fuel every fill this year.

No issues with the engines/gen running, and vacuum gauges about where they normally are. Just the filters dirtier than normal. I have also been told that our set up continues to polish the fuel as we use the boat, but i have wondered about calling in a polishing company. too. But, our tanks do not have any access for this and the tanks are baffled, so I don't know how a cleaning/polishing company could do this?

Anxious to learn more.....

Also agree on 70-80 gal reserve.
 
About to approve a tanks cleaner, quoted $785 total, both tanks. I've learned that with no inspection ports, they access the inside via the sending unit flange opening, top of tank. They use a flex hose pressure wash type wand far as I know and I suppose some sort of suction apparatus. Head space above the sender is cramped, so this does not seem easy. Sender is likely old school float on a long rod wondering if it even can come out without raising the deck (ugh). Haven't had that discussion yet with vendor. I have no idea if my tanks were ever serviced (June '20 acquired), so i'm proceeding. Haven't had symptoms of fuel problems but I believe mechanic in telling me Racors need rebuild. As I learn more, will share.
 
Jack,

Yes, if original they are float senders. You don't have to worry about raising the deck as the sender access is too far out board (even if you lifted the deck, it would not improve access). Yes, it is cramped, but can be done (I've changed the senders). Please keep us posted. I'm very interested in how this process goes.

Just a thought, if the senders are original, you might go ahead and change them out. If the vendor is already going to remove/replace the senders for the cleaning, replacing with new senders should not cost any more in labor. They are standard 22" float switches (check me) and if I remember are under $100 each.
 
LMBoat said:
Jack,

Yes, if original they are float senders. You don't have to worry about raising the deck as the sender access is too far out board (even if you lifted the deck, it would not improve access). Yes, it is cramped, but can be done (I've changed the senders). Please keep us posted. I'm very interested in how this process goes.

Just a thought, if the senders are original, you might go ahead and change them out. If the vendor is already going to remove/replace the senders for the cleaning, replacing with new senders should not cost any more in labor. They are standard 22" float switches (check me) and if I remember are under $100 each.
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@Jack O'Brien recommend you ask for pics from the polishing company. Both of tank interior before/after and the fuel before/after.

Agree with your mechanic if you have slime covered filters it is an issue.

Also, odd he is replacing your raw water pump, they can be rebuilt pretty easily.
 
Pic from house to the dock with a barge dwarfing our boat this morning.

Happy Thanksgiving!


20231123_073753.jpg
 
Well, I had been looking at them as a lower cost upgrade for awhile now, but just bought the Airlock purifiers (https://airlockpurifierusa.com/) for our boat on their black Friday sale (Facebook actually had some additional discount, so ended up buying through them).



Our boat doesn't smell bad, but it does smell like vinyl after being closed up which clears with just letting in fresh air, and sometimes we have a slightly off smell from the main drain or head sump which is easily cleared by running fresh water through both for a few mins.

They have great reviews online, so will install them on all three units and see what comes of it.
 
Forrestkk said:
Well, I had been looking at them as a lower cost upgrade for awhile now, but just bought the Airlock purifiers (https://airlockpurifierusa.com/) for our boat on their black Friday sale (Facebook actually had some additional discount, so ended up buying through them).



Our boat doesn't smell bad, but it does smell like vinyl after being closed up which clears with just letting in fresh air, and sometimes we have a slightly off smell from the main drain or head sump which is easily cleared by running fresh water through both for a few mins.

They have great reviews online, so will install them on all three units and see what comes of it.
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It looks like a nice unit! Please update us and show how you wire it up and install the system.
 
New Topic:

We know the salon table comes down and there are filler cushions to make the seating area a sleeping area. My boat did not have shorter legs to lower the table. Does anyone know if they were originally supplied? If so, do have pics, measurements, or where to get? Or any other comments about this set up?

Thanks all!

Salon Table Legs 11-28-23.jpg
 
LMBoat said:
New Topic:

We know the salon table comes down and there are filler cushions to make the seating area a sleeping area. My boat did not have shorter legs to lower the table. Does anyone know if they were originally supplied? If so, do have pics, measurements, or where to get? Or any other comments about this set up?

Thanks all!

View attachment 154785
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My boat has the short legs, found em port side drop-down cabinet at middle of the fwd master berth. They had slid aft inside, couldn't see em at first. 10" long, tapered ends. Set up dinette as a berth once to know how but never used it with our 3sr model.
IMG_20231130_201900~2.jpg
 
Forrestkk said:
@Jack O'Brien recommend you ask for pics from the polishing company. Both of tank interior before/after and the fuel before/after.

Agree with your mechanic if you have slime covered filters it is an issue.

Also, odd he is replacing your raw water pump, they can be rebuilt pretty easily.
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Tank polisher took pics of his filters. He used 4 each tank. The square ones he said were cut and laid out. Access was thru sender flange but I didn't replace with new but should have. Correct on no deck plate access but he said was manageable above the tanks. Also noted that install of tank access side ports is like $3500 (3 ports) facilitates more thorough cleaning.
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