Raymarine vs garmin

[Irie308]

Purchased my g3 card last year for a hefty fee. They can kma if they remove my features. I’m ok with the G3 and it’s features for now. If I want more I’ll look at the subscription but over $200 per year is a hefty fee for something that doesn’t change that dramatically over the course of a year.

 

[ttmott]

In the link that I posted. Read the description and footnote for “
HIGH-RESOLUTION RELIEF SHADING”

there are a couple other features with that footnote.

Footnote 4?
I read that as a subscription is required for daily downloading and updates.... Nothing more.

 

[jmauld]

Footnote 4?
I read that as a subscription is required for daily downloading and updates.... Nothing more.

For your sake, I hope you’re right, because the subscription features in navionics are a PITA. I fucking hate that business model. But when I read that, it looks to me like garmin is integrating that model into their business as well. I suspect your existing mfds won’t be effected as much as future models.

 

[ttmott]

For your sake, I hope you’re right, because the subscription features in navionics are a PITA. I fucking hate that business model. But when I read that, it looks to me like garmin is integrating that model into their business as well. I suspect your existing mfds won’t be effected as much as future models.

Now that I agree with. Years ago CAD software went to the subscription model and really messed up the design/engineering business costs and revision stability. At one point the CAD companies said to view / review the CAD models you had to have a licensed version which bit them in the butt as CAD Viewers came out of the woodwork. Still if you own a drafting business your CAD packages must remain not only licensed but you also license seats. From a business owner's perspective, I'd like the option to purchase (expensive up front) or option to lease (annual fee). I wouldn't mind the cost of revisions every year if the S/W was purchased.

Regardless, I'll stick with my Bluecharts G3 Vision package. I don't like the dynamics that are creeping into the purchases.

Now, you may be hosed for your charting packages on the Ray devices.

 

[jmauld]

Yeah, I use fusion360 for my personal use and their fees are incredibly high. I don’t know how a start-up entrepreneur could afford to purchase these systems initially.

 

[jmauld]

Now, you may be hosed for your charting packages on the Ray devices.

No, raymarine offers the lighthouse charts, that don’t force a subscription, and which I have found to be more accurate than the garmin/navionics maps. I preferred the navionics maps for fishing, but someone has suggested that the c-maps are better, so I’ll use those on the CC. This gets me out of Garmin’s shitty subscription model.

I’d make a wager that blue charts g3 is dead in under 5 yrs.

 

[Skybolt]

Guys - This link states what goes away when the sub goes away. The question is what charts use those technologies.

Summation from this (previously posted) link: https://www.navionics.com/usa/garmin-navionics-vision-plus-us-east-1.html

Anything with the 1 notation goes away when the sub does.

 

[Skybolt]

Guys - This link states what goes away when the sub goes away. The question is what charts use those technologies.

Summation from this (previously posted) link: https://www.navionics.com/usa/garmin-navionics-vision-plus-us-east-1.html

Anything with the 1 notation goes away when the sub does.

View attachment 121083

So I just got off of the phone with a very unhappy tech support person or she was having a bad day in general. Guess they are getting flooded with these questions.

So in short there website is inaccurate and contradicts the foot-noting. I asked about that and she did not comment at all. But as it stands @b_arrington and @ttmott you are correct in that anything downloaded stays as is on the card and nothing goes defunct when the sub ends, except, Auto Guidance and updates. I believe the Auto-Guidance goes because of no chart updates, so they can't guarantee accuracy from a legal standpoint as mentioned by @jmauld.

@alnav the Active Captain app follows along with what ever your subscription is according to tech support there should be no difference with the AC app. They couldn't or wouldn't comment on the Navionics app changes and only re-affirmed the AC app will follow the plotter sub and the downloaded charts.

They also said that any of the views available in the Navionics app were downloadable and should be the same views. So the SonarChart Shading should be available. In general I will say I have not been impressed with the G3 Vision+ charts as they have seemed to be behind the Navionics and C-Map offerings. I really like the views in the Navionics app and might give this a try to get the SonarChart Shading alone, that's a great view for where I boat most.

 

[jmauld]

you are correct in that anything downloaded stays as is on the card and nothing goes defunct when the sub ends, except, Auto Guidance and updates. I believe the Auto-Guidance goes because of no chart updates, so they can't guarantee accuracy from a legal standpoint as mentioned by @jmauld.

I'd throw a stink about this. IF you guys were sold auto-routing as a function of the MFD, and this update changes that, then you might actually have a legal case against them. This is a shitty place for them to put you in.

 

[ttmott]

So I just got off of the phone with a very unhappy tech support person or she was having a bad day in general. Guess they are getting flooded with these questions.

So in short there website is inaccurate and contradicts the foot-noting. I asked about that and she did not comment at all. But as it stands @b_arrington and @ttmott you are correct in that anything downloaded stays as is on the card and nothing goes defunct when the sub ends, except, Auto Guidance and updates. I believe the Auto-Guidance goes because of no chart updates, so they can't guarantee accuracy from a legal standpoint as mentioned by @jmauld.

@alnav the Active Captain app follows along with what ever your subscription is according to tech support there should be no difference with the AC app. They couldn't or wouldn't comment on the Navionics app changes and only re-affirmed the AC app will follow the plotter sub and the downloaded charts.

They also said that any of the views available in the Navionics app were downloadable and should be the same views. So the SonarChart Shading should be available. In general I will say I have not been impressed with the G3 Vision+ charts as they have seemed to be behind the Navionics and C-Map offerings. I really like the views in the Navionics app and might give this a try to get the SonarChart Shading alone, that's a great view for where I boat most.

Was your discussion specific about the Navionics product or includes the Vision G3?
I'll say thay my AutoRoute feature is still fully active and my Vision charts are over a year old.... Almost 2 now.

 

[Skybolt]

Was your discussion specific about the Navionics product or includes the Vision G3?
I'll say thay my AutoRoute feature is still fully active and my Vision charts are over a year old.... Almost 2 now.

Tom, it was a Navionics only discussion and what related to the chart subscription and what goes away when the sub ends. Regardless of what is on their site, this tech support person said exactly what is in my previous post. G3 is G3 and remains untouched. I do believe they are going to phase them out at some point, after they get this under control and only support Navionics. At least that was the impression I got form the discussion.

 

[unsalted]

This website seems to indicate the route guidance is a builtin feature for most units (see list) and does not require a subscription whatsoever. The raymarine and simrad sites indicate that auto-routing is a feature provided by the navionic maps and therefore subject to subscription. The language on the Garmin site often repeats the fraise "for guidance only" and you are ultimately responsible for the route you follow. Also, the guidance doesn't take into consideration much of the data available on the more costly charts (sonar, underwater structures, etc). I did see on one page something referred to as route guidance+, but nothing about how this differs from route guidance. Only you can weigh the wisdom of piloting your vessel on outdated information.

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=CTvlWm5UDX7WpRGSfHxEP7

 

[Skybolt]

This website seems to indicate the route guidance is a builtin feature for most units (see list) and does not require a subscription whatsoever. The raymarine and simrad sites indicate that auto-routing is a feature provided by the navionic maps and therefore subject to subscription. The language on the Garmin site often repeats the fraise "for guidance only" and you are ultimately responsible for the route you follow. Also, the guidance doesn't take into consideration much of the data available on the more costly charts (sonar, underwater structures, etc). I did see on one page something referred to as route guidance+, but nothing about how this differs from route guidance. Only you can weigh the wisdom of piloting your vessel on outdated information.

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=CTvlWm5UDX7WpRGSfHxEP7

So we were discussing the new Navionics subscription based charts for Garmin devices. My post in #148 explains exactly what Navionics/Garmin tech support stated about auto guidance. Auto-Guidance with Navionics charts for Garmin GPSMAP(s) is subscription based.

This should not be confused with the Auto Routing that some of the newer MFD's have built in. This Navionics Auto-Guidance is handled differently from the other charts.

 

[unsalted]

So we were discussing the new Navionics subscription based charts for Garmin devices. My post in #148 explains exactly what Navionics/Garmin tech support stated about auto guidance. Auto-Guidance with Navionics charts for Garmin GPSMAP(s) is subscription based.

This should not be confused with the Auto Routing that some of the newer MFD's have built in. This Navionics Auto-Guidance is handled differently from the other charts.

I think we are saying the same thing. My perspective is of someone looking to purchase an mfd comparing options, so it’s kinda limited. What specific model do you have? The website lists a bunch of units where auto guidance is included and doesn’t need additional maps. This leads me to believe it will run in perpetuity with the maps that shipped with the unit. If that’s not the case then I suppose I agree with someone earlier who suggested you would have a class action lawsuit ready to roll. Just go find some shister to take it up. I’m sure there’s plenty of those to be had.

 

[Skybolt]

So the answers I got originally from Navionics tech support didn't fully set right with me so I called back and asked the questions again a different way. Basically the same answers except this, when you get the new Garmin/Navionocs chart card you must download the added features that are marked as "Via ActiveCaptain App" in the online chart. If you don't download them you will never get them and by "them" I mean the relief shading for an area along with the other features so marked. That is what goes away with the subscription, the ability to download the "Extra" features for an area.

So if you get this subscription based chart card I would recommend getting a 32gb SD card and download/purchase through Express and then download through Active Captain the extra areas so the card it complete. Then if your subscription expires you will still have those area's that were downloaded. Confused yet - I am ... Dam. I can only think those extra area's take up so much storage space that you can only squeeze in a limited amount and not the full area your chart covers, but that is only a guess.

Also confirmed twice, that both G3 and Navionics can be in the card reader at the same time and on a reboot you decide what chart to load. Also there is no "SonarChart Shading" as in the Navionics app. And they could not answer why, only that Garmin has relief shading and that was added to the Navionics views.

 

[Skybolt]

I think we are saying the same thing. My perspective is of someone looking to purchase an mfd comparing options, so it’s kinda limited. What specific model do you have? The website lists a bunch of units where auto guidance is included and doesn’t need additional maps. This leads me to believe it will run in perpetuity with the maps that shipped with the unit. If that’s not the case then I suppose I agree with someone earlier who suggested you would have a class action lawsuit ready to roll. Just go find some shister to take it up. I’m sure there’s plenty of those to be had.

I have the most recent models, 1243/1243xsv. They work great and have all of the features of the 8612 except that they only support one transducer and not three. Also the screen resolution is different, the 86xx series is 1920x1080 and the 1243 is 1280x800. Other then that all software is the exact same.

After the latest update update they may be the same, but Navionics Auto Routing is much better then Garmin's built in Auto Routing. Garmin's built in Auto Routing doesn't change and remains there except possibly not when the Navionics sub expires. Got conflicting answers on that.

 

[jmauld]

So the answers I got originally from Navionics tech support didn't fully set right with me so I called back and asked the questions again a different way. Basically the same answers except this, when you get the new Garmin/Navionocs chart card you must download the added features that are marked as "Via ActiveCaptain App" in the online chart. If you don't download them you will never get them and by "them" I mean the relief shading for an area along with the other features so marked. That is what goes away with the subscription, the ability to download the "Extra" features for an area.

So if you get this subscription based chart card I would recommend getting a 32gb SD card and download/purchase through Express and then download through Active Captain the extra areas so the card it complete. Then if your subscription expires you will still have those area's that were downloaded. Confused yet - I am ... Dam. I can only think those extra area's take up so much storage space that you can only squeeze in a limited amount and not the full area your chart covers, but that is only a guess.

Also confirmed twice, that both G3 and Navionics can be in the card reader at the same time and on a reboot you decide what chart to load. Also there is no "SonarChart Shading" as in the Navionics app. And they could not answer why, only that Garmin has relief shading and that was added to the Navionics views.

Be careful with the navionics charts and don[t copy them to another sd card. They will nix your subscription and your original card if they even suspect you have done this. The navionics download app checks to make sure you haven’t switched SD cards. If you are going to put the garmin and navionics charts on the same card, be sure that you follow whatever guidance garmin gives you for that, so that you don’t get your card blacklisted. I found this out while trying to move my navionics subscription from a cf card (e120 mfd) to a SD card (axiom) and got the card blacklisted.

 

[unsalted]

ok, that makes sense. So the base unit provides a basic auto-routing (not something simrad or raymarine offer) and with an active subscription you get a full featured routing solution (as you could on simrad/raymarine with navionics subscriptions).

 

[Skybolt]

Be careful with the navionics charts and don[t copy them to another sd card. They will nix your subscription and your original card if they even suspect you have done this. The navionics download app checks to make sure you haven’t switched SD cards. If you are going to put the garmin and navionics charts on the same card, be sure that you follow whatever guidance garmin gives you for that, so that you don’t get your card blacklisted. I found this out while trying to move my navionics subscription from a cf card (e120 mfd) to a SD card (axiom) and got the card blacklisted.

And that is why I said get a 32gb card and use Express to download the maps to it, so there is enough room to use active captain to get the relief shading etc. If you order the card directly they will put it on an 8gb card. Express is a SW app the Garmin uses much like the Navionics app with RayMarine, sorry should have mentioned that for you RM guys. You can not put multiple packages on a Garmin map card. Some extra files maybe like for changing the splash screen and boat image stuff, but that's it.

 

[Irie308]

Anyone using a FLIR with Garmin? Trying to figure out how to use the tracking features of the Flir. Seems to be able to track ais and Marla but not clear in tracking random items like objects in the water.