Raymarine vs garmin

[Skybolt]

... One thing I don't know is if the GRID 20 will behave any differently; it could use some refinement.

I can say this, the grid 20 works as it did before the update. It even saved the preset saved screens. Can't speak to the auto-pilot though.

As for the core functions and Auto-Guidance, Auto-Guidance is a core function and is not dependent on a subscription. That said, most of the extended screens seem to be subscription based. https://www.navionics.com/usa/garmin-navionics-vision-plus-us-east-1.html

I am still calling to get this all figured out as this subscription crap really doesn't make sense for a fixed chart plotter. It's one thing for an app but not for a plotter.

 

[ttmott]

I can say this, the grid 20 works as it did before the update. It even saved the preset saved screens. Can't speak to the auto-pilot though.

As for the core functions and Auto-Guidance, Auto-Guidance is a core function and is not dependent on a subscription. That said, most of the extended screens seem to be subscription based. https://www.navionics.com/usa/garmin-navionics-vision-plus-us-east-1.html

I am still calling to get this all figured out as this subscription crap really doesn't make sense for a fixed chart plotter. It's one thing for an app but not for a plotter.

Think about it - you are in the middle of nowhere for weeks and the thing goes Tango Uniform because you need to pay for a subscription??? If this is where Raymarine is going with their chart products then the Garmin lovefest goes on....

 

[Skybolt]

Think about it - you are in the middle of nowhere for weeks and the thing goes Tango Uniform because you need to pay for a subscription??? If this is where Raymarine is going with their chart products then the Garmin lovefest goes on....

Yeah, exactly. But I think by what they have on the website the base charts stay and only things like relief shading and sonar imagery is lost on the subscription. I still think subscription based anything for a navigational plotter on a pleasure boat used for cruising is nothing short of absurd. Hopefully the sub is only for the updates and extended charting.

 

[jmauld]

@SKybolt i wish you luck. I wouldn’t put it past garmin to nix your functionality in favor of a subscription service. They’ve done with navionics products.

Think about it - you are in the middle of nowhere for weeks and the thing goes Tango Uniform because you need to pay for a subscription??? If this is where Raymarine is going with their chart products then the Garmin lovefest goes on....

Sigh, the subscription requirements come from navionics. A garmin product. But even with navionics, the charts do not auto delete when the subscription runs out, just the ability to auto-route, and a few other advanced functions. Now I do think navionics on a tablet goes t.u. when that subscription runs out. Charts and all.

 

[jmauld]

Do you guys currently get free lifetime map updates with garmin?

 

[b_arrington]

Yeah, exactly. But I think by what they have on the website the base charts stay and only things like relief shading and sonar imagery is lost on the subscription. I still think subscription based anything for a navigational plotter on a pleasure boat used for cruising is nothing short of absurd. Hopefully the sub is only for the updates and extended charting.

Per the details on the Navionics site, this isn’t quite right.

When the subscription ends, the ONLY thing you loose are the daily updates. Any content or feature you downloaded or activated as part of the subscription remains on the card. That includes shading and sonar imagery. And Auto Guidance.

 

[b_arrington]

Do you guys currently get free lifetime map updates with garmin?

Nope. You get 1 update included with the purchase. After that you have to buy cartography updates. I think this is fair; there’s a lot of work that goes into those mapping updates.

 

[jmauld]

Okay, so garmin is also already on a subscription service. No different than raymarine or any other manufacturer. The only difference is the auto-routing feature which it appears they own a patent for and are using to stifle innovation in the marine world.

do any mfds use the noaa charts?

 

[Skybolt]

Per the details on the Navionics site, this isn’t quite right.

When the subscription ends, the ONLY thing you loose are the daily updates. Any content or feature you downloaded or activated as part of the subscription remains on the card. That includes shading and sonar imagery. And Auto Guidance.

View attachment 121062

I agree with that, sort of. They seem to contradict them selves a bit. But from the link I posted on the features chart and where where quoted the bottom note, anything with a sub 1 on it goes away with the subscription. Take a look at the feature chart again. Hopefully I am wrong and you are right, but the way they have it, those extended charts are with the sub only.

 

[b_arrington]

Okay, so garmin is also already on a subscription service. No different than raymarine or any other manufacturer. The only difference is the auto-routing feature which it appears they own a patent for and are using to stifle innovation in the marine world.

do any mfds use the noaa charts?

Garmin BlueChart is currently NOT a subscription. It’s paying a single price to transact a perpetual use license with no additional services provided or available. By definition that’s a purchase not a subscription.

The Navionics+ is kind of a hybrid. You get the perpetual use of the charts and all associated features. Included in the price is a continuous data update for a 1 year term. At the end of the term you still retain all data and functions downloaded to that date.

This is markedly different from a true subscription that degrades the product is the subscription is not renewed. An example is Netflix - no pay no service.

 

[jmauld]

Okay, so by that definition, no charts are a true subscription. Except for navionics on a tablet.

if you download a chart from any source onto your mfd (regardless of mfger) you have perpetual use of that chart.

 

[Skybolt]

Nope. You get 1 update included with the purchase. After that you have to buy cartography updates. I think this is fair; there’s a lot of work that goes into those mapping updates.

Not sure about that. I originally thought it was only for a year, but I got an update this past fall on my two year old Vision+ of the Chesapeake Bay. Third chart update since I bought it.

 

[b_arrington]

Not sure about that. I originally thought it was only for a year, but I got an update this past fall on my two year old Vision+ of the Chesapeake Bay. Third chart update since I bought it.

Really?? I’ve never gotten that. Just the one that came with the new unit. I just checked my Active Captain and I have a chart update notice. $99 for the US G3 map, and $229 for the Boston-Norfolk Vision update.

 

[alnav]

Not sure about that. I originally thought it was only for a year, but I got an update this past fall on my two year old Vision+ of the Chesapeake Bay. Third chart update since I bought it.

Orlando, if you get the chance, can you ask Garmin about any impacts to Active Captain app charting from the changes? Charts for the app used to be separate from the MFD charts but a few years ago, Garmin went to one "subscription" for all devices, a good thing IMO. Is that link still going to exist for the Navionics version on the AC app? Will it also extent to the Navionics app? If so, that would be a real plus.

 

[ttmott]

It appears -
If you purchased the Navionics chart package for a Garmin system, all of the features in the package remain functional after the year "subscription" expires. The only thing that can't continue is any further downloads and updates.

If you purchased the Navionics chart package for a Raymarine system, some of the features in the package cease functioning after the year "subscription" expires. Per Jmauld you also lose Auto Routing.

 

[Skybolt]

Really?? I’ve never gotten that. Just the one that came with the new unit. I just checked my Active Captain and I have a chart update notice. $99 for the US G3 map, and $229 for the Boston-Norfolk Vision update.

Yeah, I also have the upgrade notice in express. But I also agree with you that it was strange, but yes I received a chart update last fall for a 2+ year old purchase. I had always thought it was free updates the calendar year of the chart package, the issue there is, Garmin does not post many updates. They only post maybe one a year of that because they want you to buy the upgrade.

 

[jmauld]

Not all features remain active for a garmin system, this page is pretty clear.
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/794442#overview

welcome to the subscription model, boys….

 

[ttmott]

Not all features remain active for a garmin system, this page is pretty clear.
https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/794442#overview

welcome to the subscription model, boys….

Not to me - enlighen me....
All I see is downloads cease after the 1 year. I don't see anything being "turned off"....
Where in that link is it clear that features get turned off?

 

[ttmott]

Not to me - enlighen me....
All I see is downloads cease after the 1 year. I don't see anything being "turned off"....
Where in that link is it clear that features get turned off?

This is the only Garmin note I can find on limitations (read the Bolded) -

NOTE: When you purchase a new Garmin Navionics+ or Garmin Navionics Vision+ cartography product, a one-year subscription is included. The subscription includes access to daily chart updates and download of additional content such as raster cartography and premium features (high-resolution relief shading, high-resolution satellite imagery and sonar imagery) where available. Charts and features that are downloaded during the subscription period remain on the card, but no additional content can be downloaded after the subscription expires.

For preprogrammed charts bought in-store or online, the subscription needs to be activated.

Garmin Navionics+ or Garmin Navionics Vision+ cartography requires that your compatible chartplotter software is updated to the January 2022 software release, which is conveniently preprogrammed on the cartography cards. The software is also available for download from the ActiveCaptain app or via Garmin Express™ software.


¹ Auto Guidance+ is for planning purposes only and does not replace safe navigation operations.
² When a Garmin Navionics+ card is inserted in these devices, it may only be used on networks containing no more than 4 compatible chartplotters.

 

[jmauld]

In the link that I posted. Read the description and footnote for “
HIGH-RESOLUTION RELIEF SHADING”

there are a couple other features with that footnote.