Prosecuting our soldiers?

JuliaValentine said:
Okay, war is ugly. Men do bad things. We've all heard of the rare incidents of rape, torture, and murder, but come on. Trial by court martial for three Navy seals? The charge is that one of them punched the most wanted terrorist murderer in Iraq in the mouth and the other two watched? Ahmed Hashim Abed got a bloody lip after he murdered countless Americans. His captors get brought up on charges. These guys are American heros and that's how they are treated? What an embarassment to our nation. WTF? We need George W. back. He may not have been the best president, but things like this would never have happened under his watch. How maddening.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576646,00.html
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We don't know the whole story and probably never will. Given the events and aftermath in recent years involving prisoners they certainly knew not to do anything that could be seen as abusive. Now look what they've got themselves into. By refusing the admirals mast and requesting a court martial they have made this story even more news worthy. If I was their superior I would be po'd by their lack of discipline in following the protocol required in this situation.
 
We may never know all the facts. We do know this....the scumbag they caught had killed American civilian contractors and hung their bodies from a bridge. I am absolutely okay with the SEALs punching him in the mouth upon capture.
 
Woody said:
We don't know the whole story and probably never will. Given the events and aftermath in recent years involving prisoners they certainly knew not to do anything that could be seen as abusive. Now look what they've got themselves into. By refusing the admirals mast and requesting a court martial they have made this story even more news worthy. If I was their superior I would be po'd by their lack of discipline in following the protocol required in this situation.
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Seems to me you are finding them guilty already. Maybe best to wait for the Court Martial before you send them to Leavenworth.

Lets play nice with the terrorists and give them their constitutional rights.. who cares that they cut off heads, and torture, and kill innocents....thats OK, I guess. Hell, lets drive a plane into a skyscraper......thats OK....... Bull s%it
 
Hampton said:
<snip>The whole concept of terrorism is to affect our moods and our daily lives. Extremists want to wipe us out, but realize that this may not be a realistic goal. For them, the next best thing is to ruin our way of life - to remove our freedoms. The TSA has accomplished this on their behalves in the travel industry. Our leadership is accomplishing it in most other regards.
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I agree.

That is why you should treat terrorists as the *criminals* that they are. What many people overlook in the discussion of "9/10 thinking" and "9/11 thinking" is that if we *change* our way of life, our values, as a result of terrorism -> then we have lost.

This is not to say you do *nothing* in response to Terrorism. Security and Liberty are NOT mutually exclusive.

ImpulseIII said:
Should have just shot the bastard and been done with it. Seems the inmates are running the asylum
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. . .and there is definately a place for that as well. But if you are simply going to *eliminate* a problem, that needs to be done *quietly*. The role of the Leaders is to recognize that some hypocrisy is *necessary*; and when to excercise it.

Woody said:
We don't know the whole story and probably never will. Given the events and aftermath in recent years involving prisoners they certainly knew not to do anything that could be seen as abusive. Now look what they've got themselves into. By refusing the admirals mast and requesting a court martial they have made this story even more news worthy. If I was their superior I would be po'd by their lack of discipline in following the protocol required in this situation.
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Agree.

The entire *point* is that we *are* better than the terrorists, and we hold ourselves to a higher standard.

We also hold *them* to a higher standard; and accountable for their actions.

Which is why we are in Afganistan in the first place, right? When you have a bunch of *criminals* on the loose causing trouble, you send in a bunch of guys to clean them out. If they fight -> you shoot them dead. If they surrender -> you throw them in jail.


- - - - - -

OK. . .done now.
Flame away.
 
Comsnark, some fine points.

However, this is still nothing more than a piece of garbage that murdered and displayed the bodies of 4 American citizens being punched after capture. No hand-wringing is necessary. And certainly no court martial
 
comsnark said:
. . .and there is definately a place for that as well. But if you are simply going to *eliminate* a problem, that needs to be done *quietly*. The role of the Leaders is to recognize that some hypocrisy is *necessary*; and when to excercise it.



.
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It does not need to be done quitely...It needs to be done in such a manor as to show those who think about screwing with us that there are consequences for their actions. The Atom Bomb stopped WW II because the Japanese knew what we had and that we were not afraid to use it.

The noisier and overtly we kill the enemy the better.. Screw what the Arab world (or Europe for that matter think). They started....we finish.
 
ImpulseIII said:
It does not need to be done quitely...It needs to be done in such a manor as to show those who think about screwing with us that there are consequences for their actions. The Atom Bomb stopped WW II because the Japanese knew what we had and that we were not afraid to use it.

The noisier and overtly we kill the enemy the better.. Screw what the Arab world (or Europe for that matter think). They started....we finish.
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+1. In their own culture, they teach consequences by assembling a crowd to watch stonings, canings, and hangings. That's how they control themselves and it works. Its the only rule of law they know and respect. Sadam was a master of control and very effective. It worked until we rolled him over. Now, they use his tactics on us. I agree, brute force and no mercy on the battlefield with this enemy. If we fight France or England, we can get out the etiquitte book, since we will be treated in kind.
 
I haven’t found them guilty of anything, I’m just discussing the allegations against them like everyone here. FWIW, it doesn’t bother me that a terrorist got an extra smack in the kisser but doing it in front of witnesses was pretty stupid, I think this is what comsnark was hinting at in his post. After the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal emphasis was put on how to treat prisoners. Agree with it or don’t agree with it but the fact is these guys didn’t follow orders so to speak and in the military when you don’t follow orders you’ll be called on it.
 
Woody said:
. Agree with it or don’t agree with it but the fact is these guys didn’t follow orders so to speak and in the military when you don’t follow orders you’ll be called on it.
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Do you know what there orders were? "these guys didn’t follow orders" (your words) . What ever happened to innocent until proved guilty? Are you basing your comment on the alleged smack in the face based on a complaint from a god damned Arab terrorist...?? What kind of sense does that make? These hero's risk life and limb to do a job none of us could or want to do. The least we can do is afford them the same rights as the freaking people that are trying to protect us from.
 
JuliaValentine said:
+1. In their own culture, they teach consequences by assembling a crowd to watch stonings, canings, and hangings. That's how they control themselves and it works. Its the only rule of law they know and respect. Sadam was a master of control and very effective.
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So. . .therefore . . . since they act like animals, we should ALSO act like animals. We should pattern our behaviour after Sadam? Is that our role model?

So we can earn their respect? :smt101

Acting on their own terms is what these enemies want. It demonstrates that we are no different than they are. . . and therefore we are their equals. That is how we lose. That is our path to defeat.

The "surge" in Iraq did not succeed JUST because we threw more troops at an enemy. It succeeded because of what those soldiers *did*. They demonstrated that Americans build schools; Terrorists blow up schools. The local population was not blind to that simple fact.

So. . on the field of battle, we shoot and kill the enemy. We do it from 10,000 feet in the air using remotely piloted aircraft. We don't do that because we are cowards, like they claim. We do it because WE CAN. And we don't CARE what they think, because they will BE DEAD.

However, once you have a prisoner, or are arresting someone in a building in Baltimore; that is different. That is not a battlefield. We are not Sadam. We are the United States. A country ruled by laws.

We don't care if they don't respect our Laws. Their respect is irrelevant. What is important is that WE respect our laws. And HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS.

Strength is not from them respecting us, or from liking us. Strength is from HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE, even if it means blowing up every lawn tractor and shack in the entire country. Or if it means building 1000 mosques.

What our government needs to do is to provide the manpower -and more importantly the strategy- to make that happen.

Have a nice Thanksgiving!
 
Wow

Real passion here... Can't seem to get my head around seeing Dick Cheney back doing the "puppet master" act again.
 
Maybe Cornstalk and promodork are missing the fact that if we are at war, the enemy does not belong in our civil court system. See... that's where the word "civil" comes from... note it doesn't say "military"... Hell.. maybe these guys think we should give them Social Security benefits as well!

I guess these dorks would think that during WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, etc. we should have put all the captured in federal court? Ridiculous... Get a grip...

And take a pill yourself moldy man... Dick Cheney has some balls... Plug the bastards into a 110v outlet for some slow frying right after the daily water boarding. Let's see... we have soldiers making them wear underwear on their heads and taking pictures and they are hanging our people from bridges... and we prosecute our people... nice.
 
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Four Suns said:
Let's see... we have soldiers making them wear underwear on their heads and taking pictures and they are hanging our people from bridges... and we prosecute our people... nice.
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Ya but they used dirty underwear..
 
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