"one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industry."

Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

I agree with all that's been said,in my business if i don't sell , I don't eat, I am the owner, the floor sweeper, I've cleand the johns, and I've changed the oil, so when it gets slow, I get up and get going once again, I make more sales calls and capture more business. In 2001 I lost my biggest customer, it was 68% of my business, but I survived, because I never stopped kicking, and here I am with business never being so good and I'm still out there kicking hard, making calls and delivering my own orders...I geuss if I'd have sat on my A$$ then my local economy would have crashed, I will not let that happen, I want a bigger boat...someday and I'd like to pay cash for it, but I think I'd lose to much money paying cash.... now that's terrible thinking...The prices of these objects must and will come down..The housing market is showing us this daily.....now lets start with the Boating industry as well.....That 44 we looked at shouldn't be a penny over 395,000......it's that 12" TV thats driving the price over 600K...I just know it...
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

boltman said:
That said, why or why should a 44 foot Dancer be in the upper 600's...I don't get it... why does a 12" TV on that boat cost 3500.00 when I can get it in WalMart for 300.00 and instal myself.. Why are the diesels a 100,000 dollar option, when I can buy a 5.9 liter cummins brand new for under 20,000....These Boats are too much and just like the housing market righting itself........it means, the company is screwing everyone , even themselves for future sales... comments eccepted...
Click to expand...

Whoa! As a business owner IN FLINT, MICHIGAN of all places you know much of the reason this boat costs what it does. First...its American Made...which is a good thing - but an expensive thing. Labor rates in this country are staggering compared to foreign labor - we all know that. Much of that (but certainly not all) can be compensated for in something like the auto industry where machines can assume much of the work over thousands of units. But take that labor cost and apply it to a 44DA - an essentially hand-made low volume unit and you've got yourself one expensive unit to build. Do the numbers...see how much labor goes into building on of these things and compare it with a $600,000 house...the house will have more hours...but then again the house builder doesn't have to support a 1,000,000 sq. ft. factory and all the equipment inside it either.

Then there's the biggie....LIABILITY INSURANCE. Can you imagine what the insurance people think about a manufacturer who makes house sized objects that move 30 MPH over the water with 3 different places designed to store nice, tasty, cool alcohol? I'll bet its staggering what Sea Ray pays for insurance and we'd all be surprised at the stack of lawsuits (frivolous or not) that they deal with on a yearly basis. I know that at one point a few years back...small aircraft manufacturers were tacking 30% on to the cost of each plane to pay for liability insurance. I'd imagine that a boat manufacturer is not too far behind.

Then of course there's the R&D (anyone care to sit down and try to design a house on water with 2 semi-truck engines?), the sales force, the boat show costs, the delivery costs, the warranty costs, and a few other hundred cost categories...and then how about a PROFIT after that?

And finally...
boltman said:
....it means, the company is screwing everyone , even themselves for future sales....
Click to expand...

Sighhhh. I don't know where to start with this one. The "company" gets what the company can for its product. This has been at work in this country for ~250 years now and its resulted in ~300 million people with an average standard of living far higher than anywhere else on the earth (for a big country at least ). I'm in commercial roofing - and I'd love to jack my rates through the roof and "screw" everyone - but sure as hell my competitors will fill in at a lower price and I'll be free to do as much boating as I'd like...until the cash for diesel ran out because I have no business.

SeaRay is pricing the boats to cover their costs and still try to remain competitive based on the product they have. Sure, a 44 DA is expensive..and probably more than a Cruisers Yacht. But a Cruisers is ugly and I'd be willing to pay more for the Sea Ray. Now, if that price spread got too big...more people will buy the Cruisers (somehow it just became "pretty") and Sea Ray will have to come down on price. For this reason (the price spread) I never considered Formula Boats...because (believe it or not) they are EVEN HIGHER priced than Sea Ray.

Anyway - my point is - there are a lot of boat manufacturer's out there for any length/size of boat...for the manufacturer to wake up one day and "screw" us all...well I think we'd find another manufacturer and set up a nice new forum to complain about them in short order. In fact - we really could save some money and find a manufacturer that builds their boats in Taiwan or Vietnam or (ack!) China even. Good thing about those countries...the government doesn't let them "screw" the customers. Maybe we should think about that type of system for our economy. Then again - I think there are a few presidential candidates doing just that.....

Now...could we please have 70 degree days in Ohio so I can go back to boating and not bitching...???
 
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Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

Most of the high-end trawlers are made in Taiwan... look at http://www.nordhavn.com/ and make sure you bring a cool $4M.
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

Four Suns said:
Most of the high-end trawlers are made in Taiwan... look at http://www.nordhavn.com/ and make sure you bring a cool $4M.
Click to expand...

I KNEW somebody was going to bring that up - I saw that too when I was checking out the Nordhavn site. For that matter...I recently stayed in Costa Rica at the family home of the world-wide production manager of Incesa Standard (better know to us as American Standard - the toilet maker). He recently was in charge of shutting down a plant in my home town and moving production to one of 13 or so other locations they have around the world. After a depressing conversation about the woes of our labor force at home - I asked him where his best location was....answer: Taiwan.

Anybody care to speculate if our friends at Brunswick have made a visit for some Hung-Su-Har lately?
 
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Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

Searay maybe lowering there prices.... but the whores at marine max are slow to respond. Yes whore is a bad word .... but when it comes to marine max it fits....

Searay put most of there eggs in marine maxs basket ...Now they pay the price. The tail is wagging the dog....

Rob
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

Good thing for used boats!
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

:smt021:smt021:smt021
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

Uh oh... the moderator is back... don't you need to go to church this morning or something?
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

Man, all's I got when I bought my used boat from marinemax was an invitation to a getaway. Not even a mention of a who-er! Damn, I'm going to have to give my salesman a call.
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

Politics are, for better or worse, the public face of economics. The larger government is allowed to grow, the greater force it becomes on our life, and our livelihood. This is but another inevitable downward wave in the economic cycle. We will see better times again, but the pain of a recession is never evenly shared. This time around it is the mortgage bankers, investment bankers, homebuilders, subdivision developers and realtors who feel the greatest pain. Many of them will have to sell their boats. The five year-old 'Dancer will become more affordable to the family who still have disposable income. Maybe in the next cycle, some of those who've felt the pain this time around will be buying our old boats, allowing us to trade up.
 
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Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

Non of my income is disposable. It is all usable. I choose to use a good portion of it on boating.

Frank H did mention one time that he had "extra" money!
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

The economy, good topic right now to be sure. I have been in the residential construction business for almost 30 years and what feels quite different about this downturn is that it seemed to happen almost immediately. This is due to a perfect storm of several factors. Those greedy SOB mortgage idiots pushing “creative financing” that never should have been sold, that created record foreclosures, which resulted in the tanking stock market and finally the declining value of homes.

Gary, sorry, but your $200 mason is an idiot and can’t possibly know as much about the business as you would like to give him credit for. Performing a service for a loss, regardless of the business, will not insure survival but rather a quicker death. One advantage of a downturn is that it can purge out those less than professional which are the ones that have not developed survival skill for every economic condition.

Another advantage of times like these, is that it is very easy to schedule work. I called my supplier last week for 24 yards of concrete about 4 days before needed it and they indicated all trucks have been sitting in the yard for months and we could have any amount needed in one hour.
 
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Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

Lots of extra money...want some?? Think I may go out and buy a G5 this afternoon....darn the airplane store is closed on Sundays!
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

Jim,
I disagree.... If u have trucks idling and ur paying people to sit on the tails ... u get creative ... u dont pass up work..... u may not make money but ur not losing money ... anyting to get tru the crunch.... the guys that cant react to the economy die....

Its the way it is ....

And the banks deserve to get there butts kicked... they gave money to people that couldnt afford to pay it back.... nothing is for free...

Rob
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

the more the economy tanks, the closer I get to a bridge boat and a house in Florida on the water.
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

Banks and the home owners share the blame on this mess and need to suffer. Bailout? No way.. I bought LESS house than I could afford, with a plain vanilla 15 year mortgage. Why should my tax dollars be used to make up for the lack of common sense of others????

I don't like foreclosures...but that's the only way we work our way out of this mess...bad decisions must be penalized...good decisions rewarded..

And what happens when 140,000 of our finest men and women start coming back in 2009? Can u smell the unemployment rate?
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

tmhudson2 said:
Politics are, for better or worse, the public face of economics. The larger government is allowed to grow, the greater force it becomes on our life, and our livelihood. This is but another inevitable downward wave in the economic cycle. We will see better times again, but the pain of a recession is never evenly shared. This time around it is the mortgage bankers, investment bankers, homebuilders, subdivision developers and realtors who feel the greatest pain. Many of them will have to sell their boats. The five year-old 'Dancer will become more affordable to the family who still have disposable income. Maybe in the next cycle, some of those who've felt the pain this time around will be buying our old boats, allowing us to trade up.
Click to expand...

Politics has replaced economics, policy analysis, etc in the public forum. People still talk in Keynesian terms like, "priming the pump," which is complete nonsense. The last 20 years has clearly shown that Keynesian does not work. So many ignorantly hold fast to that fallacy so instead of arguing the merits of those stupid $600 freebies in the public forum, the talking heads argue the politics of it. Stupidity leads to increasing stupidity today in public discourse.

I guess I just need to have more compassion for stupid people.

Best regards,
Frank C
 
Re: "one of the most challenging times ever seen in the history of the marine industr

While we can debate the causes of today's economic climate forever, the point I tried to make when I posted this to begin with is now is the time to buy a boat if you can. The time will never be better.

The kind of "advertised" discounts I have seen recently on certain brand new boat models at our dealership just proves that point. Sea Ray didn't extend their incentive program to the end of March for no reason. And that used boat seller who is caught up in the economic downturn will eventually realize he has to let his boat go at a bargain price as well because in many cases the prices on some new boat models are so good, there is no reason to buy his comparable one or two year old used boat.

Like the article says, these are "challenging times" in the marine industry and that not only includes the nmanufacturers and dealers but the guy on the street that has to get rid of his used boat.
 
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