NOTICE SEA RAY RE-FIT PROJECT-need input

I think that the concept is great in theory but would suffer in execution. A number of the key issues have already been defined (every job custom, travel, etc.). The other though, is I'm not sure how big the target audience would be - sorry.

Case in point - I would have been an ideal target for such a service, as I've invested more than $100 (much more...) on various upgrades and repairs to bring back to Bristol condition since taking possession of my boat. If such a service existed, it would have made perfect sense for me to buy the boat and send it in immediately for a retrofit. That is, if I were smart enough to know in advance that this would be the way I'd go. I didn't plan to spend this much - I bought a good boat and like each of my boats, convinced myself on purchase that she'd be a good investment as she was in good shape and would last me a while. If I'd known I'd sink in the investment that I did - I would have bought something else. Not many folks go into the purchase thinking that they will invest more bucks heavily. I'm happy now, as I have what I believe to be a boat that is in better condition and more capable than the day she was launched 10+ years ago and in total, for a lot fewer dollars than her original cost. I certainly would not get my investment back on resale, but news flash people...boating is a bad financial investment and if that were the only logic, no one should every buy a boat - especially a new boat. That I think would be pretty common amongst buyers of a new-to-them boat.

For someone who has had their boat for a while, it may also be a tough sell. If I were faced with a substantial retrofit today, I'd probably use it as an intellectual alibis to talk myself into upgrading to a newer boat. Even though the numbers and logic should support the move to retrofit, the visceral potential in upgrading to a newer (or bigger) boat for similar bucks would, I fear, rule the day in most circumstances.

So there you'd be, with a perfectly logical service in a perfectly illogical world...

Paul
 
Hi Rusty

Very interesting idea, and feasible..for SR larger vessels. As stated Hatteras and other "specialty" manufacturers do this, the point being these vessels purchased new can out price Sea Ray by millions. With that said, SR's largest boast 58DA, 58DB and the 61DA (still want one) would be, in my opinion, the only vessels suited for a project like this. These models are fairly new, with even the oldest 61Da having flat screens and interiors that are not out dated. The feasible part and to bring in the sport yacht arena is what searaydad40 stated. A traveling semi, with factory made cabinets, upgraded electronics, vinyl work..etc..would be far more cost effective..to the consumer, than bringing a boat on her bottom to FL. Interiors, factory made to spec, new electronics, thrusters, can be done on site. Even upgrading hull windows can be done on the customers site, if I make the assumption that most of these large yachts still use the same hull forms. If so then refitting old oval, or even the tri-diamond windows with the new elongated smoked glass ones is possible with the right work crew. Plan a few jobs in a specific area, pick the 3 or 4 man crew (fiberglass,electronics,carpenter, mechanic) and do the job. Even a factory re-man could be arranged to use the local dealers facility and travel lift.

In October FL Bow thruster came to our yacht club and did 5 boats in 1 week, mine being the newest and largest of them. They had my interior pulled out, helm pulled apart and installed a 10hp, 24V thruster after drilling a 10.5" hole through her. When they departed (6hrs before Sandy hit) it looked factory installed. We all saved on the job since they traveled once for 5 jobs.

Keeps us in the loop as you and Sea Ray progress on this project

Rich
 
I have a feeling that a "Mobile SR Doctor" travelling into a Marine Max controlled territory would be a "problem." Territorial rights and all the jazz.
 
Just speaking for myself, I enjoy doing projects on my boat. Things cost so much the savings on labor by doing myself allows me to do more things. With a kid at NYU Dentistry school and a kid at Northwestern, it seems to not matter how much money i make so when i can save a few bucks I do. On projects I cannot tackle such as new canvas, it would not be feesible to send my boat to Florida. If I was within 150 miles of you, absolutely.
Now, for the larger Yachts, I think it makes a load of sense given its geographically desireable to do so, dont get me wrong, I would rather have Sea Ray work on my boat but I dont think you could ever get me to ship it to Florida. As Sferguson727 wrote earlier about the arches, I experienced a huge cracks on my radius of the arch shipping my boat to Chicago from Florida. I wont mover her again.
 
Let's take a minute out here and talk about that warm and fuzzy feeling that you would get by having SR "stand behind their work". Suppose that you decide to ship your boat down to Florida from somewhere up north to have her "re-fit" and you have her shipped back home only to find a few issues that require SR to make things right on their dime. Just exactly how would that take place?? Although the initial concept sounds appealing, it definitely has a lot of holes in it that might just not get her off the ground.
 
Rich122 said:
Hi Rusty

Very interesting idea, and feasible..for SR larger vessels. As stated Hatteras and other "specialty" manufacturers do this, the point being these vessels purchased new can out price Sea Ray by millions. With that said, SR's largest boast 58DA, 58DB and the 61DA (still want one) would be, in my opinion, the only vessels suited for a project like this. These models are fairly new, with even the oldest 61Da having flat screens and interiors that are not out dated. The feasible part and to bring in the sport yacht arena is what searaydad40 stated. A traveling semi, with factory made cabinets, upgraded electronics, vinyl work..etc..would be far more cost effective..to the consumer, than bringing a boat on her bottom to FL. Interiors, factory made to spec, new electronics, thrusters, can be done on site. Even upgrading hull windows can be done on the customers site, if I make the assumption that most of these large yachts still use the same hull forms. If so then refitting old oval, or even the tri-diamond windows with the new elongated smoked glass ones is possible with the right work crew. Plan a few jobs in a specific area, pick the 3 or 4 man crew (fiberglass,electronics,carpenter, mechanic) and do the job. Even a factory re-man could be arranged to use the local dealers facility and travel lift.

In October FL Bow thruster came to our yacht club and did 5 boats in 1 week, mine being the newest and largest of them. They had my interior pulled out, helm pulled apart and installed a 10hp, 24V thruster after drilling a 10.5" hole through her. When they departed (6hrs before Sandy hit) it looked factory installed. We all saved on the job since they traveled once for 5 jobs.

Keeps us in the loop as you and Sea Ray progress on this project

Rich
Click to expand...

BAZINGA!

..... and the owner MUST be a part of the overall process, start to finish.
 
I think this idea has legs. To meld the trusted platforms with newer tech has great appeal to many, I think. Things like head upgrades and modernization is most appetizing. Then there are the simple things that have been problematic like the shower sumps, generator noise, and the like that when overcome really bring in the customer base. And the dressing like test bed integrated systems wets my curiosity. So, Mr. Higgins, I would consider being a part of the project and to make it a starter my near pristine 2000 400DA is two blocks from PD&E at Harbor Town. E17 (to be exact).
Tom
 
I can’t keep up and that means you have opinions, I like it. Yes there are holes to fill and hence the reason I come to you guys in the sport yacht, yacht thread to iron some of this out, if not out the window all together. I do believe there is an opportunity for some of you to utilize the skilled labor here and I am way confident you will be impressed with the level of work that can be performed.
So far the biggest hitter is getting the boat here and we knew that cost concern just as quickly as we considered the distance from wherever to Florida. I have a little better feeling down here simply because Florida is where all boats eventually end up and each owner has wishes. No matter where you or your boat fits in that spectrum, we can do things that I believe no other can. We have the best facility at our access and direct connections with all the best suppliers in the marine industry.
Someone mentioned justifying premium pricing that I am willing to bet will not be as premium as you may expect. We are manufactures’ and truly understand the concept of customer retention. Our success did not come from selling customers one boat each. We need your brand loyalty much more than your last dollar and therefore have asked if I can explore this possibility……..thank you for your replies guys, please keep them coming.

R

Let’s talk ways of diminishing transportation cost…..we use vessel trucks all the time. Got a hint from FW about using those boys on return loads as our main means of transpo. They would love two way loads. Still say if you are north of me, plan a slow cruise down the ICW this fall and leave her with me (no winterization or winter storage bill). West of me, you really need a Florida Keys or Bahamas trip this year, when you’re done, leave her with me on the east coast. Your beautiful boat can show up at your slip ready for the season looking like she just left the factory…..because she did!
 
I think it would be nice for S/R to offer a kit that a do it yourselfer could buy. Have an interior package and an exterior package.
 
Rusty,

Here are some random thoughts in addition to those we discussed yesterday............

We are debating a basic concept here until you let prospects get a feel for pricing. Obviously it will differ between models and even between customers, so every deal will need to be priced differently. (How to do that?) For a boat with good bones, like the 370EC, the 370/380DA, 450DA's, 440DA's, 48/50DA's, 540DA, 480DB, I really don't think an interior upgrade to modern cabinet faces, new headliner, new seating, new fabrics, new prefinished wood flooring, tile in the head, resealing/rebedding hatches and portlights would cost all that much. We are accustomed to seeing prices after the dealers add their markup, but eliminating that should make major refits a lot more palatable, but you guys will hear a great knashing of teeth and cries of foul from your dealers. (How to sell the concept to dealers without involving them?) If the work is done by people who aren't trying to hit home runs on every deal but who know the boats and how they are put together and if the components can be partnered with regular OEM vendor purchases to keep costs low, and if you keep margins realistic, I'd guess $30-40K to "make over" a mid-40-50ft Sea Ray.

As for picking up salvaged boats and repowering/refitting them, I think that is a completely different business model because it requires investing capital in inventory and it would put your refit operation in direct competition with Sea Ray Boats on new product and with dealers/brokers on new and used boats. I don't think that one will sell to management in either of our lifetimes.

Freight cost might not be as bad as some have estimated........the contract carrier you use to deliver new boats runs empty on most back hauls. The trailers are alreadt set up for Sea Ray hull configurations so no major changes to equipment would be needed. Giving the carrier a load coming back south shouldn't increase the real cost more than the lower fuel economy he get with a load vs empty, the cost of insurance, and the time involved for the driver to go to a different location to pick up a refit customers boat before heading home. It wouldn't be free, but it shouldn't cost as much as hiring a transporter to move the boat either. Couple that, if it can be logistically orchestrated, with no winter storage and no winterization, it might be close to a wash.

Repowers is a whole 'nuther' subject and can as low as "cheap" or as expensive as "stupid high" depending upon the suitability of current transmissions, shaft size, strut size, props, etc. Changing a 5.7 or 7.4 over to a Isuzu/Duramax might be a lot cheaper than we imagine; make the same change to a high torque Cat or Cummins and maybe not. Changing a vas v-drive boat over to Zeus diesel isn't just "stupid high", its just plain stupid for an older boat.

I really don't think warranty will be an issue. Run the boat a couple of hours in the Merritt Island area, let the refit customer come to examine/accept the boat, fix what he sees that your guys miss. (Not much!). After that make each ewarranty claim a separate event......either pat for the repair at the home location or send someone up to do it, whichever makes the most sense.

Another feature to offer customers is free dockage for a week if they come to visit and explore the central Fla area......and it doesn't have to be all boating either......Mickey is right down the road. After the week, load the boat and ship it home or the customer can run her on her own bottom.......or who knows, if the boat and trip look like they might be fun, give me a call and I might come down and go with you!
 
What may make a major refit palatable is if financing options were made available. There are a couple of people i know who have older boats who would do major upgrades if there were a way to finance the cost.
 
No reason to stop at factory redos right? You can always take that opportunity to add faux teak and other aftermarket items while rehab is being done. It would be great to be able to pick up a nice mid to late 90's 450DA for $100K to $150K and throw it at your boys for a few weeks. Can you imagine dropping $40K to $50K on the used boat and have it come back looking like new? A sweet 45'+ boat for less than $200K that looks like new. I like the idea...

Good luck Rusty! Don't forget my offer still stands and where better to market this plan than at the AC CSR event.
 
Rusty,
I really think this is a good idea. Some of the boats that Frank W mentioned are great models but can look a little dated. Also with the collapse of values many may be "stuck" with them and getting a refit may be a good option for those that want to keep their boats. And I like the tourism angle too. So how many "big" sea rays (above say 36') have been made? I'm guessing a lot since my '07 44DB was #554 or something like that. I do think though that its not going to be for everyone. It does make sense on a pragmatic/financial level but by definition, those of us crazy enough to dump free capital into rapidly depreciating assets that are expensive to maintain are, by definition, NUTS and can not always relied upon to make rational decisions. I think this approach will be somewhat limited to those nuts who feel they've hit the limit on size or have fallen in love with their boat but want all the latest toys and an upgraded look and feel. That may only be a small percentage of people, but the good news is there are a lot of sea rays out there! I also think that having a financing partner, either for the work itself or for a refi of the whole "new" boat would get some people off the fence. I would consider it myself, but the 2002 sneaker is shockingly up to date for an eleven year old boat.
Best of luck, I think it may work.
Tim
 
One out of the box idea, that might push people over the top, like me with 33-34 DAs, would be a conversion to a Deisel Electric boat...

Quote from the attached link: "They replaced the engines of an older pleasure boat – a 34′ cabin cruiser with twin gasoline 225hp engines that cruised at 21 knots and burned 20 gallons per hour. The same boat with two of their new diesel-electric hybrids cruised at 25 knots and burned 12 gallons per hour. So, it’s faster and consumes much less fuel. Sounds pretty cool." See: http://www.2-speed.com/2008/09/a-diesel-electric-hybrid-arrives-for-boats/

On my 340 DA you would only need one Deisel engine. The Generator could be used for powers the electric motors in no wake zones.

The benefits would include: Only one Engine need (costs less than two). Weighs less and you can put the engine anywhere: Better weight distribution. Twice the fuel economy or more. More room in the engine room. Power for AC/Heat avaialable from both the engine and generator. Easier to cost: You can build an production line with all the 330s and 340s out there. There are many more 33 to 34 Sea Rays than any other boats. Plus, the Sea Ray owners outside the US would interested, as fuel cost much more in other countries.
 
Nevermind - I see this is targeting the Yacht crowd. My post didn't fit that.
 
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From my point of view, a Sea Ray enthusiast in Europe, it would be great to have the chance of buying directly from the manufacturer some officially certified refitted boat. Euro is strong and lots of used american boats are imported by little brokers today...I would feel much more confident to buy directly from Sea Ray!
 
Hey Rusty,

Great to hear from you and I’m glad you’re doing fine.

It sounds like there are great points outlined here so far. Regarding the overall question “will the concept work?” my answer is YES, but only if the model is properly tuned and the potential clientele is maximized and not limited to only large yachts. So, I’m looking at the following primary bullets:

1. Design few retro-fit packages for different budget levels (e.g. $15K, $30K, $50K for let’s say 35-45 footers) with upgrading components that will most likely needed for majority. This takes care of the guess work regarding having each boat done differently and will allow to have inventory of supplies. Obviously, regardless of what package an owner will choose custom additional items might be added. But, this is secondary. For larger yachts the packages would be more money (e.g $30K, $50K, $75K).

Having the set form of retro-fit packages will also open an opportunity for SR to sell it to DIY clients. This alone could take off better than anything, b/c majority of boaters (at least here on CSR) are handy folks and love to work on their boats. So, if they can buy the same (say $30K package) for $15K-$20K and save money by doing the work themselves SR is still profiting on the sale of the parts.


2. Perform retro-fit at SR location. This of course is most desirable option from SR point of view, but as we know it limits the exposure to local clients as more remote folks will have to eat a huge cost of transportation. So, how to fix this problem? Come up with incentives.

First I’ll say that having multiple SR plants, each plant should offer the retro-fit program. This will allow reaching out to local clients in multiple locations.

Anyone who’s going to travel long distance (say from northern regions) and spend thousands of dollars on fuel will most likely take advantage and stay in warmer climate for the winter. This is where SR should provide their incentives for docking, perhaps some discounts to Disney parks or whatever is major tourist’s attraction, etc, etc. Have travel agents involved and the ideas will start flowing to attract folks with great packages.

Organize fun events at the end of the retro-fits for a particular timeframe (say winter months) – trip to Bahamas, Keys or any other popular destination that remote clients don’t have chance to do during their regular boating season.

When a yacht owner looks at the overall picture and sees that there’s an affordable retro-fit package, SR offers great deal on dockage, there’s a great deal on a vacation package we can use during the winter visits and in the end we as a retro-fit group all get to go on a fun trip. This is starting make a lot of sense and will attract people more and more.


3. Have mobile crew to reach remote clients – Rich gave a great example where a yacht club made a deal and it was a win-win situation for the company doing the service and the boat owners who got the package deals. Here’s where another incentive can be deployed. Say package #1 ($15K), if a group gets together the same package could be $13K per boat, and so on. This could look like 1-5 boats=$15K, 6-10=$13K, 10-15=$12K, etc. I can see how this approach would work for SR retro-fit mobile crew.

I think the biggest problem in boating industry is that it “lost the balance”. The new boat prices are totally astronomical. The service by big name shops (MM is the first one that comes to mind) their rate is also astronomical. So, if you want to make something work, the valid balance has to be re-established the way it would make sense to most people, not just those that belong to 1%.

Make up the packages, price them well, attract people by offering having experience of a lifetime (not just fix the boat) and you might be in for a big surprise.

I wish you and SR great success.

Cheers,
Alex.
 
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I think financing is the biggest obstacle to overcome. How would NADA etc. value a vessel that had updates of such value, for lenders?

MM
 
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