NOTICE SEA RAY RE-FIT PROJECT-need input

[Capt. Rusty Higgins]

Am wanting to test the waters of uncharted territory and to prepare for such a journey I am seeking the advice of business folks, entrepreneurs and those who prefer the prestigious Sea Ray boating style.

Things have changed so much in the marine business climate, which we so patriotically followed for so many domestic years, that every one of us is aggressively seeking ways of doing business better…..better for our customers, better for our employees and better for our communities. You folks here on CSR are well aware of recent top managerial changes and decisions here at Sea Ray Boats, as it appears we are doing our best to strategically stay a leader in the marine industry, but with consequences. You all have recently read where Sea Ray has to close the Sykes Creek Yacht Facility and will combine our efforts at the Palm Coast plant, a couple hours north of the existing yacht home. Although a necessary decision to remain strong, it will affect many.

I am going to make an inquiry to CSR members and I am hoping you will respond to it. I also do not mind if you read between the lines as the cliché goes, simply because there are volumes of reasons behind the idea. I have this vision and for a quick litmus test, I asked an Administrator whose pay grade would require me to take an elevator to get to…..and his reply was music to my ears. He asked that I see if the idea could grow legs…..here it is:

In the Sport Yacht, Yacht world that you guys navigate in, would any of you consider the opportunity to have your boat brought here for re-vamping and re-fittings. Yes, I am asking if having Sea Ray people do aftermarket re-fittings of such items as, vinyl’s, upholsteries’, hard wood floors, new audio-visual equipment, new generation electronics…..okay the real list would defiantly be a mile long so I will leave it with pretty much unlimited possibilities…..re-powers from gas to diesel, from shafts to Zeus, endless!

I am going to post this in the Sport Yacht/Yacht threads only because I do not believe it will be feasible on smaller boats right off and I really do want real answers. Your responses will be taken as qualified Sea Ray Owner input and will be used for discussions on this matter with decision makers.

Good idea? Want to add some dialog that will help me, please do. Want to forgo paying winter storage this coming season and bring your boat here for wonderful things to happen to her? And then come pick her up and take a trip to the Bahamas before having me bring her back to her home slip…..just saved you some and think of what that can be used for in the boat….all flat screens, new high-end stereo set-ups. Ipad/Iphone controls for all systems in the boat by “Streamsurfer”. You pay to get her here or have me come get her for you so you don’t have to leave the office….my fee can disappear in the upgrades you have us perform.

I will pull the data received on this thread in about week and hand it to the right people so please provide your thoughts and input. I am the only employee involved so if the project does not happen, it is mine alone.

Thanks guys !

Rusty

 

[skolbe]

Interesting concept. What I value about Sea Ray is how you keep all the information on the boats over time. If done well and a good value I could see this be a nice feature come resale time. You are talking boats larger than a 320 obviously. I could see this to be a great way to have your boat redone well and then take it on a nice excursion.

 

[rcknecht]

Rusty, I love the idea... Dale (MasterFab) would be the best person to consult with (IMHO) on the feasibility for mid-sized boats.

If I were searay, I would start by snatching up some Sandy boats, and build a retrofit line to gain cost savings on a front loaded production line. These Sandy boats could be sold as factory retrofit boat, and used a examples of what can be done, as well and refine cost/profits for the company.

The problem I have with my boat, is I have dumped too much money into it already, so I missed the boat... But, if we have published cost for certain desired retrofits, I believe we as boaters would consider the factory retrofit option when we look for our next boat.

With the cost of new boats, and quality of the Sea Ray, I believe you would increase the value of all the boat on the used market, and provide an option to buying new that we all need in this depressed economic times.

Please keep us informed, and I like the idea...

 

[carterchapman]

Rusty,

We plan to make a Florida trip with our 10 year old Sea Ray 410. It is coming due for upholstery, canvas, carpet/teak, and electronics updates. I'm not sure the $10-15K delivery fuel cost would warrant a special trip just for upgrades, but as part of a pre-planned FL trip, it might work for us. Sounds like a great idea - especially if you could publish some general cost estimates before hand...

 

[hottoddie]

How would the refit cost be financed? Who would inspect the boat and quote the refit prior to it going to the factory? How would it affect the value of the boat for insurance purposes? Most of all how would the refit factor into the resale value when that time comes? These are questions do not just apply to Sea Ray boats but to the refit of any boat. Most refit are done because the owners love the boat and plan on keeping them for many years and I guess are paid for out of pocket but that is just a guess on my part. For me as a hands on guy I have done several of the "refit" items you mentioned and can't imagine what it would cost to have it done at the factory.

 

[MasterFab]

Rusty,

I have to say, this is not a new concept to me. I have been turning over the thought of doing this myself for a couple years now (with smaller boats than what I believe you are proposing). The logistics, obviously, are almost insurmountable for a small business, especially when one considers all the infrastructure required to make a go of this. So, I've just been doing one boat at a time, on the side.

It's hard to put a finger on just how profitable this type of venture would be for you guys. When you look at fuel and transportation costs, labor, parts and materials, it seems that this wold only work for large projects. Also, since each boat would be a unique undertaking, the factory would lose out on the "assembly line" efficiencies that come with new construction of many of the same model boat.

Having said that, I have put a lot of thought into this kind of business model, and would very much like the opportunity to discuss this further with you, if you ever have some free time. If so, send me a PM.

As always, thank you for your support of Sea Ray owners and enthusiasts.

Kind regards,

Dale

 

[JimFromMD]

Depending on the costs involved, I would much rather have a factory retrofitted/reconditioned job done vs something by local crews. I would also consider a factory reconditioned boat (Sandy / Non-Sandy) with the factory standing behind the work done and some sort of warranty backing. Sounds similar to a "Certified Pre Owned" type program. Great idea in my book.

I have always wondered if there was money to be saved in having work done in the areas where boating is a year-round industry vs here and further north where its a seasonal "get your $$$ while I can" industry. Considering the cost of shipping over road vs fuel cost over water, maybe there is an option for smaller boats / cruisers too.

 

[Turtlesboat]

As an owner of an older boat, something like this is very appealing. I attempted a mini version of this last winter (taking my boat south, getting work done while enjoying it every now and then during the winter). We justified it by being able to have access to the boat during the winter, scheduling the work to be done while we were not there. It worked out so so, I only say that because the people I hired to do the work were not the greatest. But I would do it again if I knew I could find a great place, at a reasonable cost. Fuel for us up north will be a huge factor in the equation. Maybe expanding some of the services ie, the ability to "order" something. I would like new countertops for the galley for instance. or new cabinets, or the optional sun pad insert for the cockpit seating area. Things that are at this point custom projects but things that Sea Ray may still have the specs to and can make even if the boat isn't physically there.

The hard part for big projects would be pricing it out. The boat would have to physically be there before one could get an estimate, and for some of us, that could cost a few thousand bucks. If I had my boat local, then this would be a whole different story.

MarineMax does, or has done, something similar. They had a 280DA they were hauling around to the boat shows, half old and half redone. It was impressive to see the before and after but boy was it expensive. Expensive like the cost of the 10 year old 280DA so i'm not sure it grew legs, at least not on the smaller boats.

I'm not sure what kind of facilities are there or available in the area. Maybe the idea of making it a winter destination with the ability to get some quality work done would attract some snowbirds.

 

[JediJD]

Wow...great idea but the the devil will be in the details. If the refit is SR Certified, then the price premium would probably be worth it.

 

[chuck1]

Interesting idea. I know in the motor home/coach business they did it all the time. Blue Bird (WanderLodge) side did it for year. I think the cost finally did them in along with other items. I'm sure each job would be a custom job and is that the best fit for a factory/plant??

Now the idea of mass recondition boats would fit very well in a plant/factory environment IMBO. For the next 2 weeks we are going to redo 340's after that maybe 38's etc, etc.
Heck could even work on some of the small boat. The cost on them just keep going up and up. IMHO if you can start the new buyers out on the SeaRay line, you have them for life.

Would be a great way to keep some very valuable and trained/skilled worker employed.


just my 2 cent worth.

 

[rondds]

Rusty
Many times I thought about a diesel repower of my old girl before she sunk. I was told by a sage man that it wasn't worth it and I would never recoop the expenditure come resale time. There-in lies the age-old argument. Who will sink $70K into a boat that's worth about $35K? There's gotta be a whole lotta love and a big wallet - in my mind it may have been worth it - if I were to add what I originally paid for the boat to the cost of the repower, and balanced that against the cost of a comparable late-model diesel powered sedan bridge, it kinda made sense, as long as I kept the boat a bunch of more years. I think there's a market for this, but is the market large enough to keep the crews productive and employed? And is the market nation-wide, or confined to the SE quadrant of the USA?

I think one avenue to explore might be re-fitting of cabinets that may have suffered from the fabled Vitrecore delamination. Anyone who has tackled this issue knows it's insanely expensive just for the material, forget about the labor.

If you wanted to do a full refit of a Sandy victim to parade around as a model, I'd have been able to provide one for you about 3 months ago!

 

[Nehalennia]

I agree with Ron to a point. Will an upgrade or retrofit's cost be over the top of where a boat's value will be after the service? This may be the hurdle most that would consider it would have. BUT where I think SeaRay can shine is keeping their parts lines much longer than they currently do. For instance I have a 2000 260DA. SeaRay had already thrown the mold away of the radar arch my boat did not have when I bought it. Whether I brought it to Sea Ray in FL(yes I realize I don't fit in the target market) or wanted to get one through my dealer, in 2007, it already was not available. This market I think could be huge it you simply made parts for the older models available longer.

What are some of the example upgrades you are thinking Sea Ray could/would offer?

• repowers
• reupholstery
• fiberglass add ons/repairs
• railing
• system upgrades
• service to common issues door tracks,etc
• electronics upgrades

 

[GrandMaster]

Rusty, while I think this is a great idea in general, especially if there is the opportunity to have the work financed at a reasonable insterest rate, I echo some of the concerns above about the transportation costs (especially for much larger boats) to the nearest SR facility capable of performing the work and then back to home port.

I had previously researched the capababilty to completely redo the entire cabin with modern finishes even on my 290. MarineMax here in Pompano Beach offers a similar "service".

Maybe SR could coordinate this type of work with MM nationally in an attempt to provide more local locations for a refit in an attemp to reduce the travel expense. Obvioulsy that would preclude the ability to have the work done on the SR factory floor however

 

[Henry Boyd]

Over the years I have been involved in the remanufacture/refurbishment of various types of transportation equipment. I'd like to offer a couple observations. The reman projects I have managed included trailers, tractors, tractor driveline components, container handling equipment, even railroad cars. Some of these projects were done as fee for service work for customers, others were internal cost center projects with budget goals being aligned with true replacement costs.

The first point I would want to make is that initial estimates no matter how thorough, are always inaccurate. Not that estimators are unskilled, but older assets needing refurbishment have a lot of hidden flaws that don't show up until work has commenced. You won't really know how to price a job until you have built up a history and learned where the surprises are lurking.

This may be painful to hear, but OEM suppliers rarely make good reman contractors. Its not that they do a bad job, but rather they do, or want to do, too good of a job. Basically OEM's tend to have very low replacement thresholds where the attitude is, "We can re-build this so it is just as good, and possibly better than the original". That sounds great until the bill comes in and the reman job has exceeded replacement cost.

The other part of this is that OEMs have a production line mind set. While you want to have groups of the same type being worked on at the same time for economy of scale, the practical reality does not always work out that way. What's needed is a cross between a production line and a workshop.

That being said, I know done right this can work. I know a fellow who owns a small wooden sailboat building business here in Massachusetts. The basic design has been in production since the 1920s and part of their regular business is reconditioning older boats.

Hope this helps

Henry

 

[AKBASSKING]

Rusty,

Great idea and as said in other posts, cost would be a factor. If this is successful, then maybe it could be expanded with a shop on the west coast. I would also like to see them get into older and smaller boats such as my 1986 300DB. I replaced a lot of the old glass laminated plywood with starboard. I also added a fold down arch. New wire bundles, maybe even have the bridge separated and then the top part of the boat also separated to have it resealed and put back together. Sort of a menu I could select from to have different services performed. Would love to go to diesels and get away from gassers or have updated fuel injection. New windows, new gel coat are some ideas. But then again the cost and available financing and warranty from SR would mean something. I could tow my boat to Florida, but I would really have to be able to pencil it all out.....

Good luck-Tom

 

[connie garcy]

We would to have a pair of diesels, but to justify the cost of getting the boat to Fl and the cost of the diesels.

 

[Ididntdoit]

Hatteras already does this - not only on "their" boats but others as well - keeping a lot of their people busy (employed) while new builds are down. Look at high end builders like Rybovich, Meritt, even Hinkley - They have entire service, maintenance, and refit programs and even their own marinas/yards for their brands. I think it is a natural progression as sea ray continues upmarket with its yachts. Think how many progressively styled, relevant boats that are out there with disco interiors and detroit diesels....the possibilities are endless. Replacement on a 50+ footer is through the roof (new boats) - leaves a lot of room for an extensive refit. Some marine financing companies even offer refi options for refits (cash out). As stated, this isnt for the pocket cruiser guy - but for the yachts its a home run. Also, if your looking to keep people employed and factories open, have you looked into contract manufacturing? I know nordic tug has stayes "afloat" by building power cats ans center consoles for other brands....likewise some gofast brands are now making blades for wind turbines....Its all about the skilled labor and facility/equipment. Companies large and small have had to innovate.....or die.

 

[searay40dad]

Some random thoughts. I would like the idea of SR doing & standing behind refit work. But, without giving it much thought, the logistics seem problematic for many of us which might diminish the overall market opportunity. I'll be 15k in fuel, insurance, and misc trip-related costs alone just getting to & from NW FL for the winter. If you have to build a business that depends on people like me timing their refit with a trip to FL to avoid that cost, it might be difficult. Obviously, for that real cost to "dissappear", the refit would have to be substantial. In my mind, before dropping 50k or more on a refit, I'd probably opt to buy something newer and larger. But, thats just me as i've never had a boat for more than 5 years or a car for more than 3-4. I've even been thinking about trading in my wife for a newer model here lately.

Now, it does seem that the refit business for custom and semi-custom sportfish (donzis, buddy davis, rybovich,Jarrett bay, etc) and some production boats (vikings, hatts) do well since several have refit centers that aren't tied to their manufacturing plants. But, I see these vessels being a different breed. with that being said, I would assume Brunswick would only consider this business opportunity (Sea Ray refits) if the Hatteras refit business were making money in this wonderful economy, so, maybe there is business model worth exploring. It would just seem it would need to be for the larger yachts as you mention. How successful you guys would be in actually gaining much of that addressable market due to natural depreciation and market values of big sea rays would be interesting to see. my gut says it would be hard to do.

Now, just thinking out loud....pack up a SR semi trailer with a few techs, tools, customer cabinetry, carpets, electronics, other SR goodies and work out an upfront deal with my boat yard. Offer some pre-priced ala carte upgrades and standard package upgrades so you have the stuff you need on hand, provide a SR refit certification/warranty, etc. I'd guess you could get some amount of business from several SR's at my place alone. Now, whether its financially feasible or not is a different story!

 

[AKBASSKING]

Now, just thinking out loud....pack up a SR semi trailer with a few techs, tools, customer cabinetry, carpets, electronics, other SR goodies and work out an upfront deal with my boat yard. Offer some pre-priced ala carte upgrades and standard package upgrades so you have the stuff you need on hand, provide a SR refit certification/warranty, etc. I'd guess you could get some amount of business from several SR's at my place alone. Now, whether its financially feasible or not is a different story!

A traveling SR group. I like that idea.....

 

[JimFromMD]

I've even been thinking about trading in my wife for a newer model here lately.

From the looks of their various cruiser/yacht brochures, it seems SR may be well qualified for this trade in program. That said, it will likely cost you a fortune and the boat.