LED TV's for the Boat (vs. LCD TV's)

Discussion in 'Modifications/Customizations' started by Four Suns, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. Jackie J V

    Jackie J V New Member TECHNICAL Contributor GOLD Sponsor

    827
    Feb 5, 2009
    King City, ON
    560DB
    2 x Raymarine e125's
    Walker Bay Generations 360 Centre Console w. Yahama 60HP
    2 Seadoos
    CAT 3406e (C15's) @ 800HP
    Thanks Carter. I had seen Gary's post on that and he's definitely right. I have a couple of PS3's at home (one for the entertainment centre and one downstairs for the kids). Heat is definitely something to consider. I'll have to figure it out when I rip apart for the install. The cabinet area behind the TV is huge though, so it may be able to handle the level of heat dissipation.

    Paul
     
  2. Cruisinguy

    Cruisinguy New Member

    72
    Aug 19, 2009
    Northern Michigan
    1998 480DB
    Detroit 625hp
    I like the LED tv's but there are only a few small ones that I know of and they are the cheap brands like Insignia and
    Vizio and none are 1080P. Not
    a huge deal with such a small tv I guess. In the master bedroom typically you will by lying in the bed so the angle of viewing should't vary that much. Gary, if you are recessing into that cabinet and depth doesn't matter that much, you may be better off with a higher end regular LCD. Hate to custom fit a TV only to
    have it break with no exact size replacement. My 2
    cents!
     
  3. Four Suns

    Four Suns Head Pot Stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    Zodiac ProJet Dinghy
    Yamaha 110vx WaveRunner
    QSM-11 Diesels
    I'm making the recess 19" by 13.5" which will just about fit any size 19" LCD/LED TV. I agree... I did not want to custom make a cabinet for a "single" TV brand... so I went and looked at a bunch of dimensions to make sure that I could replace it with something else.
     
  4. douglee25

    douglee25 Active Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    NJ
    Cabrio
    Volvo Drivetrain
    Believe it or not, the Insignia branded lcd's/led's etc have gotten very very good reviews. Some of my relatives have a couple of them and the picture is flawless. Insignia is Best Buy's private label brand. The screens for a large majority of the tv's are made by LG, so I would not discount Insignia just because of the name.

    Doug
     
  5. HIFI

    HIFI New Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    555
    Oct 5, 2006
    Rio Grande, TX
    1998 400EC
    Merc 454 Horizon
    I think you are going to be real disappointed going from a Plasma to any LED or LCD format. There are no viewing angle problems with Plasma that are a real problem with the aforementioned formats. The contrast and picture quality is not near as good as your Plasma.

    I think the "flawless" picture is way overstated and I simply don't see it. What are people looking at to see this perfect picture in the cheap TV's?. The focus and clarity is horrible. Don’t forget the poor contrast. Is it the amazing technology that fools people?

    I was careful in selecting a better quality Panasonic LCD and I have mount corrected for the optimum vertical viewing angle. It is good but nothing compared to a CRT format or a Plasma. Contrast is what fails in these flat screen LCD/LED TV's.

    In short . . don't give up your Plasma.
     
  6. douglee25

    douglee25 Active Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    NJ
    Cabrio
    Volvo Drivetrain
    I have a plasma at home and I love the depth of the blacks. The only thing I despise about plasma tv's are the reflections.

    Doug
     
  7. HIFI

    HIFI New Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    555
    Oct 5, 2006
    Rio Grande, TX
    1998 400EC
    Merc 454 Horizon
    The only reason not to own a plasma!
     
  8. Four Suns

    Four Suns Head Pot Stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    Zodiac ProJet Dinghy
    Yamaha 110vx WaveRunner
    QSM-11 Diesels
    I have two high-end Panasonic plasmas in my house and they do produce a great picture. However, they have a huge issue with burn-in on 4:3 aspect ratio usage. I would not own another plasma because of that. They are also big heat producers (i.e. suck a lot of power) and are very heavy. I just don't think they are a good match for the boat world we are talking about here.... Plus... I don't recall any 19" plasma TV's around... Replacing a 13" fish-eye CRT with a composite video input and $2 VCR player, the 720p 19" LED sets are a big advance.
     
  9. douglee25

    douglee25 Active Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    NJ
    Cabrio
    Volvo Drivetrain
    I was under the impression from the research I did prior to purchasing a plasma that:

    1. Plasma burn in was more of an issue with the first sets of plasmas produced. The newer ones weren't as susceptible.

    2. If one chose to follow some sort of strict guideline to 4:3 viewing, the first 100 hours were really the only ones of importance. After 100 hours, one didn't have to worry much about the burn in issue at that point.

    Did you find the same thing?

    Doug
     
  10. Four Suns

    Four Suns Head Pot Stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    Zodiac ProJet Dinghy
    Yamaha 110vx WaveRunner
    QSM-11 Diesels
    I have a 5 year old plasma and a 2 year old plasma... they both have burn in issues. And they can heat a room in the winter....
     
  11. douglee25

    douglee25 Active Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    NJ
    Cabrio
    Volvo Drivetrain
    Interesting. I have a 50" samsung that is 4 years old. I adhered to the 100 hour recommendation after the research I did and I have zero burn in.

    Doug
     
  12. Nehalennia

    Nehalennia Well-Known Member

    Aug 22, 2007
    Marysville, WA
    2001 310DA twin 350 MAGs, Westerbeke 4.5KW
    Twin 350 MAG V-drives
    I was looking at this one at Costco this weekend. It's a 19" Visio LED for $219. Not bad.
    http://www.costco.com/Browse/Produc...lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC34411-Cat2341&topnav=
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    I'm considering it for the boat, but I don't have a lot of space so I think I'll be going with a LCD with built in DVD.
    They had a couple at Costco, but the link to them is not online. I believe one was a Toshiba.

    I have a Panasonic plasma at home 42" that has been a great TV. That's too much heat and power and weight in my opinion for a boat though.
     
  13. Tonka Boater

    Tonka Boater Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Jun 11, 2008
    Wayzata, MN
    1997 232 BR
    502 MAG, Bravo I
    I think the burn in issue is related more to viewing habits. I also have 2 plasmas --- 5+ yr old and 1.5 yr old and neither have burn in problems at all. I adjust the aspect on 4:3 programs there are no bars and I don't leave them tuned to any particular channel for 12 hrs straight so there's no logo burn in.

    My older one is a very nice supplemental heater but the newer one isn't too bad.
    .
     
  14. HIFI

    HIFI New Member TECHNICAL Contributor

    555
    Oct 5, 2006
    Rio Grande, TX
    1998 400EC
    Merc 454 Horizon
    No disrespect intended Gary. I was just cautioning a fellow CSR member that upgrading from Plasma (already mounted in his yacht) to LCD/LED would be a large downgrade in picture quality. I simply would not do it if picture quality is most important.

    No where in my reply was I suggesting your upgrade would not meet or exceed your expectations.

    Please accept my apology.
     
  15. Four Suns

    Four Suns Head Pot Stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    Zodiac ProJet Dinghy
    Yamaha 110vx WaveRunner
    QSM-11 Diesels
    Oh good GREIF!

    Is that sarcasm? It sure looks like sarcasm... It's sarcasm...
     
  16. Russ Calasant

    Russ Calasant Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Dec 9, 2009
    East Greenwich, RI
    2001 480 DB
    CAT 3196
    I have one of the earlier 55" Samsung Plasma TVs at home almost 8 yrs old thats been on at least an average of 4 to 5 hours a day 300 days a yr and no sign of burn in but it is warm and heavy! I also have 2 60" Pioneer Pro Kuro Elite TVs. Much newer but no burn in, less heat but heavy too. I enjoy viewing them but cant imagine mounting a plasma on my boat or anything short of 60 feet or so but would love too. At home I would not watch anything else. It is my understanding that TVs being marketed as "LED" are not true LED at all but LCD illuminated buy some LEDs but the actual screen is still LCD. I have also been told that true LED will in fact rival Plasma's picture quality, if not surpass it but it is cost prohibitive - for now. Any input anyone?
     
  17. Russ Calasant

    Russ Calasant Active Member GOLD Sponsor

    Dec 9, 2009
    East Greenwich, RI
    2001 480 DB
    CAT 3196
    Found in the NY TIMES:



    What’s wrong with existing LCD TVs?
    Up until now, LCDs used fluorescent tubes to light the screen. As a result, LCDs have trouble creating deep blacks. That’s because fluorescent tubes are always on, and some light leaks through to the front of the display even when a part of the image is supposed to be black. A lack of deep blacks reduces the perceived sharpness of the set’s image.
    Also, fluorescents lack a wide range of colors; hence, color saturation is limited.
    What’s an LED TV?
    It’s an LCD TV that uses LEDs to illuminate the display. There are two ways to do this: either by placing LEDs across the entire back of the display, or by placing LEDs just around the perimeter, which is called an “edge lit” display. Both techniques use less power than plasma TVs and LCD TVs lit with fluorescent tubes.
    Which technique is better?
    They both have their pros and cons. LCD TVs using edge-lit LCDs can be ultra-thin, because the LED sources are on the side. Edge-lit LED-lit LCDs are also less expensive than LCD TVs using LED backlit technology.
    On the other hand, LCD TVs that use LEDs across the rear of the display can create sharply deeper blacks, through a technique called “local dimming.” When a scene calls for a dark image, the LEDs in that area can be shut off completely, so no light leaks through what should look black.
    So if I want an LED-lit LCD, I should buy one using back-lit technology?
    It’s not so simple. An LED back-lit TV may contain only about 1,000 LEDs. And those LEDs can only be dimmed in large groups, because it is too expensive to control each LED individually. So when you shut off or dim a group of LEDs you may also be darkening part of an adjoining scene on the TV that really should be bright. If you cut back on the dimming, then the blacks will be less dark than blacks in another part of the image that are not surrounded by lighter images.
    Theoretically, you could increase the number of LEDs so that each lit just one pixel on the 2 million pixel LCD screen. But then you could just throw away the LCD screen because you would have actually created an LED television — just like the Walgreens LED sign in Times Square.
    O.K., but still, LCD TVs with LEDs have great contrast
    Sometimes they do. It depends on what you’re watching. As a Samsung engineer said to me last week, “the most dramatic effect of LED-lit TVs happens when the entire scene goes to black” — not necessarily when you’re watching a scene with a mixture of light and dark images.
    Do LED-lit LCD TVs produce better pictures than plasma TVs?
    Interestingly, I’ve heard no one in the industry claim that they do. At best, they say that with LED-lit LCD TVs, plasma no longer has an edge when it comes to creating deep blacks and saturated colors. But plasma still has a big edge when it comes to price.
    How much more do LED-lit LCD TVs actually cost?
    Right now, a lot. But that should change as more companies enter the market. The list price for Samsung’s 46-inch high-end LED-lit LCD TV, model UN46B8000, is $3,200. But its larger 50-inch plasma high-end model, the PN50B860, is $800 cheaper.
    Later this year, LG will introduce two new series of LED LCD TVs, in 42-, 47-, and 55-inch screen sizes; all sets will use backlit LED technology. Prices have not been announced.
    Not surprisingly, Vizio has just broken the LED price barrier. On Monday, the company announced that beginning this September it would ship the VF551XVT, a 55-inch LCD model using LED backlighting. The price: $2,200, or $1,000 less than Samsung’s smaller 46-inch LED-lit television. It looks like Samsung’s strategy to make its LED-based LCD TVs a premium product may have a short life.
     
  18. Four Suns

    Four Suns Head Pot Stirrer TECHNICAL Contributor

    Oct 4, 2006
    Williamsburg, VA
    2003 480 DB
    Zodiac ProJet Dinghy
    Yamaha 110vx WaveRunner
    QSM-11 Diesels
    I agree with most of this. The point of this thread was about how the "LED" TV's offer some new advantages for the "small low power TV market" which is where boats are.

    The "LED" vs. "LCD" thing is strange in that they both use "LCD" panels. It's the backlight they are talking about... "LED" TV's are back lit by LED lamps but still use an LCD panel... "LCD" TV's are back lit by compact fluorescent lights and use and LCD panel... So the technology change on these lower-end TV's is just in the backlighting. But it allows the TV's to be thinner, lighter and draw less power... and all those things are good for boaters... That was my point.
     
  19. Jackie J V

    Jackie J V New Member TECHNICAL Contributor GOLD Sponsor

    827
    Feb 5, 2009
    King City, ON
    560DB
    2 x Raymarine e125's
    Walker Bay Generations 360 Centre Console w. Yahama 60HP
    2 Seadoos
    CAT 3406e (C15's) @ 800HP
    ...and that's purely what I am looking for, which is my point.

    I spend a lot of time at anchor in quiet secluded areas frequented by folks who get cranky if I run the generator all the time (plus I like to enjoy the peace and quiet as well).

    I have two teenagers who's idea of enjoying the great outdoors, involves playing Call of Duty - Modern Warfare II on the PS/3 in the salon, running off my inverter and battery banks. I'm looking at all my draw requirements and trying to minimize the draw.

    If the LED will do that - it's worth it to me.

    The picture in my existing plasma is great, but it's an 8 year old unit and is a major power hog. There is certainly a level of heat dissipation going on too. Interestingly, I have no issues with burn in.

    Paul
     
  20. tobnpr

    tobnpr New Member

    Nov 12, 2006
    New Port Richey, Florida
    1988 300 DA
    tw 350's w/ Alphas
    Ahhh.. the "Call of Duty"...
    My teenage sons are so "into it" on X-Box Live that I needed to buy another 50" flat screen and X-Box for them for Xmas so they now play side by side. Their gameroom looks like a Best Buy showroom..

    Now if they'd only stop bitching about no fiber internet on the boat and be happy playing offline, and enjoy the "peace and quiet" like us.
     

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