Installing refrigerator: GFI or no?

[trflgrl]

Quick thought: what if you cut off the plug and hard wire the fridge. Then it craps out in a month (things do sometimes happen, especially to electrical). Would the warranty on the fridge be void because of the modified wiring?


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Todd

Good point for others to ponder if dealing with the same scenario....and probably would depend on whether one tells the truth or the WHOLE truth when reporting the problem. I'm sure it's moot for me because I had the fridge a long time before installing.

Schedule changed so didn't play sparky, but did find that GFCI outlet is under dining table, not at galley sink. Will test what it covers on a future trip, as part of the whole "map my boat" exercise. (Mapped all the bilge and non-bilge drains recently.)

And I'm leaning toward direct wiring at this point, even though contemporary guidelines might support GFCI.

 

[jason78]

I believe the reason that it is required is to prevent electrical shock drowning a from a badly wired boat/marina. If the electricity starts to go to ground, the water in this case, the GFCI shuts it off.

BRyan

This is probably the reason. It would also apply to swimmers around a boat if a generator was running.

Quick thought: what if you cut off the plug and hard wire the fridge. Then it craps out in a month (things do sometimes happen, especially to electrical). Would the warranty on the fridge be void because of the modified wiring?


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Todd

The NR751 Fridge uses a C13 Style Cord to connect the AC (Same as what a PC would use) so technically he could hard wire it and they would never know. Nothing would be modified on the fridge.

There have been some good points made here all around. The ABYC code is what it is. You can either follow it or you don't. It will probably be fine either way or maybe not. Personally, I am not sure it is a good idea to suggest someone not follow code, particularly for something like AC power. If he chooses not to, that is his business. Not saying I would never do the same in a given set of circumstances but I would not suggest that someone do so.

Personally, I always leave AC and DC breakers ON and have been doing so for over 5 years with no problems. The reason I do this is because at my last marina we would sometimes have trouble with the power being turned off for maintenance all day long. Or just a regular power outage. The fridge will always prefer AC if it is available and fall back to DC if not. Yeah, might run a battery down if left off for too long. But that's just another chance.

 

[Lazy Daze]

even though contemporary guidelines might support GFCI.

I'm wondering about that -- given the info above, it sounds like a GFCI ONLY needs to be used if you're using the outlet method; whereas if it's hard-wired then it's OK by code? At least that's the way I'm reading it and it would concur with the way your boat is currently wired and the way I see it in my wiring diagram.

 

[carterchapman]

I'm wondering about that -- given the info above, it sounds like a GFCI ONLY needs to be used if you're using the outlet method; whereas if it's hard-wired then it's OK by code? At least that's the way I'm reading it and it would concur with the way your boat is currently wired and the way I see it in my wiring diagram.

Dennis, I agree. That's what I see on my layout:


When my forward GFCI failed, I lost my cockpit refrigerator/icemaker (its on a plug), but notice my galley refigerator is not listed on any of my GFCI circuits, but every plug is.

 

[MonacoMike]

Some of you really need to stop talking about what you don't know, now I'm not an electrician but know what a GFCI is for. To keep a shorting devices from killing you, usually around a water source. GFCis on a boat have Nothing to do with swimming in marinas and 4 foot water in garages.

An electrician really needs to clean up the advice in this thread...

MM

 

[trflgrl]

Dennis, I agree. That's what I see on my layout:
View attachment 36403

When my forward GFCI failed, I lost my cockpit refrigerator/icemaker (its on a plug), but notice my galley refigerator is not listed on any of my GFCI circuits, but every plug is.

THIS is the "wiring for dummies" kind of diagram I wish I had for my boat--which I'm now creating as we go through everything location by location. The ones I do have are more hard core schematics that make sense to those with credentials....or at least more experience than I!

 

[ttmott]

Some of you really need to stop talking about what you don't know, now I'm not an electrician but know what a GFCI is for. To keep a shorting devices from killing you, usually around a water source. It has Nothing to do with swimming in marinas and 4 foot water in garages.

An electrician really needs to clean up the advice in this thread...

MM

The GFCI device simply monitors the current between the "hot" and "neutral" legs (Black and White) and ensures that the current is identical on both legs; if the current flow between the hot and neutral conductors is not equal the GFCI will trip off as current is escaping through another conducting media (green ground conductior, person, etc). Modern GFCI devices are not really load sensitive but they are rather sensitive to things with higher in-rush currents as that may temporarly unbalance the current between the hot and neutral. Compressors and other high current start demands (usually have start capacitors) could be problematic with the standard outlet integrated GFCI's. The 2005 NEC now requires refrigerators to have GFCI protection if within 6 feet (I believe) of a sink and that all refrigerators have a dedicated circuit and the GFCI device is integrated with the circuit breaker.

Now as far as my 400DA there is a standard 120VAC recepticle that the refrigerator and ice maker are plugged into and it is a dedicated circuit with a dedicated circuit breaker and is not GFCI protected. I am compliant to the codes and standards in effect at the time of manufacture.

 

[electricaldoctor]

The NEC & the Canadian Electrical Code have several differences and I am only qualified to comment on electrical matters north of the border. In either case, an electrical inspector cannot make you rewire all or any portion of your boat or home if the wiring is original, in good shape & it complied to the electrical code of the day. They can, however, make recommendations that would make your electrical installation "code compliant" for today's date. The ball is now in your court and if some or all of these recommendations make you feel safer, then go for it. Just make sure that you take out a permit and have the work inspected. The rest of this fluff about plugged in or hard wired is really just a matter of choice. The electrical code does not require us to have GFCI protection for fridges up here. You cannot go wrong if you abide by the code in your local jurisdiction.

 

[BryanOnTheBay]

Some of you really need to stop talking about what you don't know, now I'm not an electrician but know what a GFCI is for. To keep a shorting devices from killing you, usually around a water source. It has Nothing to do with swimming in marinas and 4 foot water in garages.

An electrician really needs to clean up the advice in this thread...

MM

Mike,

Will this do?

http://www.bluesea.com/resources/13..._Interrupters_[GFCIs]_to_make_your_boat_safer.

 

[wyrman]

GFCI outlets generally speaking, are to protect people, not appliances.
I know it's not marine related but I just took a code changes class 2 weeks ago and now refrigerators in houses have to be GFCI protected. As well as freezers in garages. Crazy.
You don't have to change existing though.

 

[trflgrl]

Mike,

Will this do?

http://www.bluesea.com/resources/1381/AC_Ground_Faults_the_Boater_and_ABYC-Understanding_Equipment_Leakage_Circuit_Interrupters_%5BELCIs%5D_and_Ground_Fault_Circuit_Interrupters_%5BGFCIs%5D_to_make_your_boat_safer.

Cool! I think others had excerpted from that--very educational!

GFCI outlets generally speaking, are to protect people, not appliances.
I know it's not marine related but I just took a code changes class 2 weeks ago and now refrigerators in houses have to be GFCI protected. As well as freezers in garages. Crazy.
You don't have to change existing though.

That's kind of funny, because when I bought my home in 2008 it was new construction, and there was a warning sticker on the wall next to the garage outlet instructing not to use it for a refrigerator/freezer because it's on a GFCI-protected circuit!!

 

[MonacoMike]

Mike,

Will this do?

http://www.bluesea.com/resources/13..._Interrupters_[GFCIs]_to_make_your_boat_safer.

The ELCI will for sure if properly installed.

MM

 

[MonacoMike]

That's kind of funny, because when I bought my home in 2008 it was new construction, and there was a warning sticker on the wall next to the garage outlet instructing not to use it for a refrigerator/freezer because it's on a GFCI-protected circuit!!

The newer GFCIs and refrigeration equipment probably get along well enough to have the regulation work now.

MM

 

[trflgrl]

The newer GFCIs and refrigeration equipment probably get along well enough to have the regulation work now.

MM

Yeah--it's pretty amazing how quickly technology evolves.

If only my bank account evolved as quickly, so I could buy a new boat that's compliant with all the new regulations!

 

[trflgrl]

Refrigerator is direct wired and running like a champ. (Provided I turn on the correct breakers for ship vs. shore, that is!) I appreciate everyone's input!