I voted with my wallet........

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by Gofirstclass, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. Blueone

    Blueone Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    832
    Jan 24, 2007
    St Clair Shores, Michigan
    2004 420 Sundancer
    Cummins 6CTA 450's
    The NFL is just a form of entertainment... Just like a Broadway show, a concert or a movie. It's sole purpose is to make money for the owners while entertaining you in the process. It's your choice to like it or leave it. The fans have the power in the end.

    Just pick... It will quickly change to what the majority wants and then accept it for what it is or move on to something else.
     
  2. skibum

    skibum Well-Known Member

    Jul 30, 2007
    Perry Hall, MD
    2005 Sundancer 260
    496 Magnum HO
    Look... I have friends and coworkers that are black, and they face exactly the same challenges in life that every white person faces.

    The problem is that if you grow up "gansta" and live your life thinking that the color of you skin is the root of all your problems, then you have created the very situation that you are complaining about. I will not support treating women like "ho's", not taking care of one's children, overall civil unrest, and street violence. I just won't. Our society needs to be civilized, and protesting a civil society is not going to get my attention. Well, it might... But it won't be in a docile manner.

    White people have problems and challenges in life, we just don't blame others when we come up short. I have never owned a slave or been given anything just because I am white. Being told I have "privilege" is complete and total BS. I worked hard for everything I have, and have overcome more than my share of challenges. Life is not easy for anyone. I have no guilt. I have never treated anyone differently than anyone else because of their skin color. I refuse to acknowledge ANYTHING based on disrespect for our flag or country. If the NFL players want to convey a message, they should choose more wisely as to the vehicle that they use. Until they understand that insulting every citizen of the country only gets their entire argument ignored, their message simply will not be heard.

    Can you acknowledge that? Protesting the anthem makes people tune them out. If they protest during the coin toss, I'd at least consider their point of view. As soon as a knee hits the ground during the anthem, I change the channel and hear nothing. The choice of the anthem as a protest mechanism hurts their ability to convey their message. As college graduates, I would have thought that it is a simple enough concept for them to understand. I'm disappointed that it is not. They can pound sand for all that I care. Protest with a little less disrespect for the people like me that would otherwise be inclined to listen and/or support.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
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  3. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    So, Boater420, are we to logically deduce that since you listed no voluntary service that you do not do any volunteer service?

    We're waiting. (It's called "Putting your money where your mouth is.")
     
  4. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
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    Please review the thread. Page 4, Post 77. I state in my first post that I DO NOT believe in taking a knee during the National Anthem.
     
  5. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke 4.5BCG
    Twin Merc 454's
    I was asked by GFC what I do to make a contribution and that post was my answer. Once again, I do not believe in the method used to protest. Taking a knee during the National Anthem is not the place to protest.
     
  6. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke 4.5BCG
    Twin Merc 454's
    GFC,
    Your volunteering, albeit admirable, still doesn't change the fact that you believe there is oppression in the world but don't care to do anything about it personally.

    I'm sorry but I fail to see how teaching financial responsibility and decision making helps stop oppression in this country.
     
  7. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke 4.5BCG
    Twin Merc 454's
    We all have friends and coworkers that are black. And yes they do face the same challenges in life as whites, but blacks also face a set of challenges that you and I will never know. I'm not talking about the gangstas, they live the way they want to live. I'm referring to those who want to better themselves, but face the extra challenges in life related to their color.

    The way I see it, privilege just means we as whites don't have to face the same BS they face. Just because you and I aren't racists doesn't mean that our black friends don't come across racism in their daily lives. Do they run up at work and tell you all about it after it happens...probably not, but it happens.

    I strongly disagree that protesting at the Anthem makes people tune out. You're not tuned out. I think they have their message out loud and clear. Sure they've pissed off a bunch of football fans with their protest but people are talking, listening, sharing ideas and thoughts. All things which bring about change.

    The struggle to end racism and oppression in this country has been going on for quite some time. When has it ever had so many people talking about the issue. Look at this thread...it's been going on and on and I personally think people are at least hearing the other side.
     
  8. northshore

    northshore Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 17, 2011
    Cleveland, OH
    1989 340 Sundancer
    Raymarine E90W Radar/Chartplotter
    Twin 454 Mercruiser 340's
    Opinion.
     
  9. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    I guess I'm a bit confused about your comments.

    What many young people (white or not) lack in their education is the basic fundamentals of how the financial world we live in works. By teaching these underprivileged kids those fundamentals I am giving then a leg up on how to get out of their low income situation, how to apply for a job, about making good choices vs bad choices, etc.

    I feel like I'm opening a door to them, giving them a glimpse of how to be more financially successful in their life. I can lead the horse to water but I can't make these kids step through that open door and try to make their lives better, how to be financially smart, how to save money, how to budget, etc.

    If I can pique their interests maybe, just maybe, they will explore that on their own and make new choices.

    By teaching these kids, I AM doing something about breaking the oppression these kids face. I could have taken the easy way out and either (a) not volunteered my time; (b) or taught in a lily white school. Teaching where I do is my attempt at breaking down those walls of oppression these kids face.
     
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  10. northshore

    northshore Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 17, 2011
    Cleveland, OH
    1989 340 Sundancer
    Raymarine E90W Radar/Chartplotter
    Twin 454 Mercruiser 340's
    Much (if not most) of this protest circles around perceived or real unequal treatment (read 'oppression') by the police.

    If the decisions that you make in life have a tendency to ultimately attract the attention of police, the odds of having a run in with the police go up greatly. Some of these run ins will end badly as there are humans involved on both ends.
    Root cause? Poor decision making. (Btw: this malady can affect any race).

    That being said, no excuse for bad police.




     
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  11. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke 4.5BCG
    Twin Merc 454's
    I totally agree that what you're doing will benefit these kids throughout their life. Much respect GFC, I really mean that from my heart. Perhaps you're giving them some of the tools they'll need to overcome the oppression we both know exists in their future.
     
  12. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke 4.5BCG
    Twin Merc 454's
    3 friends went out to a club in Ybor City, FL. The year is 2015.

    1 black and 2 white males, ALL dressed in business casual. The 2 white guys had been going to the same place for years, they took their new co-worker with them this Friday after work.

    Standing in line they made it to the front of the line but were turned away without reason. The black friend knew right away what had happened as it had been happening to him for all of his life. The white guys couldn't understand, thought it had to be the way they were dressed, so after the black guy left the two white guys went back to the club, waited in the same line, and were let in without question.

    It's not just the cops, they're just one part of the bigger picture which is, racism and oppression still exist in this country and that is the message Kaepernick is trying to get out to the people.
     
  13. Woody

    Woody Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 20, 2007
    N. Wisconsin/Lk Superior
    2005 420DA
    Cummins 6CTA8.3
    Hmmm, I guess the black guy should have told the maitre d' that he knew how to balance a checkbook. Things be cool then. :rolleyes:
     
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  14. northshore

    northshore Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 17, 2011
    Cleveland, OH
    1989 340 Sundancer
    Raymarine E90W Radar/Chartplotter
    Twin 454 Mercruiser 340's
    I guess I misunderstood his police pig sock message :)
    kap.jpg
     
  15. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke 4.5BCG
    Twin Merc 454's
    You didn't miss anything, as stated, the police are just one part of the problem.
     
  16. skibum

    skibum Well-Known Member

    Jul 30, 2007
    Perry Hall, MD
    2005 Sundancer 260
    496 Magnum HO
    So they assumed that it was race thing. If I had been one of the 2 white guys, I would have #1 - asked why we weren't being allowed in. #2 - after being allowed in the second time, I would have left and come back with my black friend and demanded that I be let back in WITH my friend.

    The assumption is the problem. I have seen black folks storm out of a place because they were asked to wait only to hear the bewildered employees discussing the situation after they had left in a huff and it was along the lines of "they didn't want to wait for us to clear a table". I think that too often black people assume the issue is racism when in reality, it isn't.

    And I do not believe that their lives have been any harder than my own. I've been denied entry to places for various reasons, given bad service, and been treated poorly by others. It happens to all of us. It's called life, and its hard. "privilege" is a lie. It does not exist. I will not accept or acknowledge the concept. Whenever I hear it, I take it as a racist insult.

    I strongly disagree. Many people have tuned out and are not listening. The #1 response I've heard from the protests is "disgusting". The entire issue of police brutality never even comes up. When folks turn the channel or skip the games they hear NOTHING. Only the folks that already agree are hearing the message. That was not the intended effect.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
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  17. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke 4.5BCG
    Twin Merc 454's
    Yeah right, until one of those understanding police officers is called to sort the whole thing out and either gives us all a wood shampoo, or if he's one of the "good ones" simply enforces the establishments right to refuse service to anyone they choose.

    What world are you living in skibum?
     
  18. northshore

    northshore Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 17, 2011
    Cleveland, OH
    1989 340 Sundancer
    Raymarine E90W Radar/Chartplotter
    Twin 454 Mercruiser 340's
    Yes, because this happens every time the police are called.

    Kev, I think you are living under the mistaken idea that all blacks face horrible racism and unjust treatment from the police every day, which begs the question...

    ...What world are you living in?

    And if those were two of your friends that were turned away without asking why and not just some cute parable, they really need to grow a set.
     
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  19. skibum

    skibum Well-Known Member

    Jul 30, 2007
    Perry Hall, MD
    2005 Sundancer 260
    496 Magnum HO
    A world where I cooperate with the police, and push back against racist people. Particularly if my friends were involved. You know. The real one where one's own actions determine the outcome. You reap what you sow wasn't made up recently. It's as true as the sun rising in the east.

    I've witness the police interacting with citizens hundreds of times. In the handful of instances where I've seen them rough someone up, I agreed with what they did and why they did it.
     
  20. Boater420

    Boater420 Well-Known Member

    Mar 11, 2015
    Clearwater, FL
    '97 330 Sundancer
    V-Drives
    Westerbeke 4.5BCG
    Twin Merc 454's
    Come on now, be fair...I gave an alternative outcome where the police simply enforce the owners right to refuse service, which would have most likely been the outcome. However, as you've stated over and over, just comply with the police and everything works out ok, right?

    So let's assume those guys "had a set" and stood there "demanding" a reason as to why they were not allowed into the club. The bouncer's had enough questioning and calls the Tampa PD to send out one of their officers. The officer arrives and attempts to sort out the problem. The three men, still not satisfied continue to demand answers.

    At what time should the men have accepted their situation? How much push back is allowed? I believe the second the police show up there's nothing left to do but walk away and stay out of jail that night, or worse.

    Skibum, how do you push back against a racist cop?

    Northshore, I think you're too hooked on the police issue and are missing the bigger picture, which is, it's not just the police oppressing these people. Those guys at the bar had a set, a bigger set than you or I, but you can never have a bigger set than the bouncer. When he's had enough BS from citizens he calls the cops and we all know you cant have a bigger set than the cops or else .... wood shampoo!

    I think you are living under the mistaken idea that all blacks walk through life not facing any horrible racism or unjust treatment, which begs the question...

    In what world are you living? I think my view more accurately describes our current racial climate.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  21. northshore

    northshore Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Jan 17, 2011
    Cleveland, OH
    1989 340 Sundancer
    Raymarine E90W Radar/Chartplotter
    Twin 454 Mercruiser 340's
    The overwhelming majority of times - yes. Obey lawful orders and if being arrested, dont resist - it wont end well for you.

    Right after they tell the police "Hey all we are asking is why are we not allowed in?"
    Some quick advice here: Try to be civil. Try not to assume all cops are evil people just out to give you a "wood shampoo" your chances of having the police on your side are a lot better.

    Too hooked on the police issue? Ok, real quick what has all the rioting been about in the last few years?
    Why did Kap have pig socks on? Why did Isiah Cowell (Cleveland Browns running back)come up with this gem?
    crowel.jpg


    By "have a set", I meant ask the question? Dont just pout away. And dont get all up in someones face and try to be physical. This seems to be what starts a whole bunch of problems with the police.

    A rather pathetic attempt on your part for at trying to inject that I, in any matter, way shape or form said that racism and injustice is never faced by blacks anywhere. You're better than that.

    Well, I've had some candid discussions with black guys that I know and according to them, their take on things more resembles mine than it does yours.

    If you don't like cops, its cool just admit it.
     

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