I voted with my wallet........

I will say it again...in 99.9999% of ALL cases where a suspect was shot (no matter what color their skin was or what religion they were) if they had complied with police commands nobody would have died. In the majority of these cases the suspect is ignoring police commands and/or showing aggressive behavior and refusing to show their hands. I hear this all the time. My step-son is a police officer and my wife is a high school teacher. My wife has students that act the same way. They are brought up this way. It isn't a racial issue. Last week a white student was texting during class. My wife told him to hand over the phone. He told her 'i ain't givin' you my da*n phone'. You didn't see this type of attitude 20 years ago. I think it is a matter of kids just not being taught respect growing up. They have defied authority their whole lives and never had to face any consequences and think they will get away with that same behavior with the police. It comes down to a lack of respect, and that is the same thing these athletes are displying towards our flag. I spent some time in law enforcement and will add this, if you respect me I will respect you, but I will do whatever I have to to be sure I go home at the end of the night.
 
trflgrl, I still stand by my statement that the protestors have not said WITH SPECIFICITY what they are protesting. They say they're protesting blacks "being oppressed".

Well what the hell does that mean? Is someone beating them on their way to work in the morning? Or is someone holding them down and beating them for no reason?

What the hell do they mean by oppression? That's what I am saying. Oh yeah, they're saying blacks are underprivileged and held back from being successful.

I'll give you some of that, but let me tell you a story that I was a first person witness to. In the early 70's I was in the USAF in Alaska. The gubmint determined we would all be better military people if we went to a Race Relations class. Every last one of us.

In my class of about 50 people was a black girl. Her "story" was that she grew up in West Virginia, in the coal country. Her grandpappy and her pappy and all her brothers worked in the mines. Shitty, low paying jobs to say the least.

Well she decided when she was in junior high that she didn't want to be another coal miner's wife living in a shack full of little black kids, too poor to feed and clothe them properly.

She studied. Hard. Got all "A's" and went to high school, something that was unheard of in her tiny little town. She graduated with honors then joined the USAF. She learned a skill and I'm sure when she got out of the USAF she went on to be a successful person.

Was she an oppressed black? You bet your ass. It doesn't get much more oppressed than to be a black girl with no education and no future except to be a coal miner's wife with a house full of kids she can't support.

But, unlike many other "oppressed" people today, she did something about it. She worked hard, studied hard and broke that chain of oppression.

I was impressed with her and asked her if we could have lunch together. During that lunch she blasted those she'd grown up with who didn't have enough gumption to do something to better their chances for a brighter future.

Is there oppression today? I believe there is. But I also believe that if a person REALLY wants to improve his situation (other than just bitch about it) the biggest thing holding him back is looking back at him in the mirror.

Is it harder for a person of color to be successful than it is for a white person? Most likely, but it sure as hell is not impossible. It takes hard work. And a LOT of it. But it's definitely not impossible.

So I'll continue to vote with my wallet. I'll continue to talk to others and try to convince them not to watch NFL games and I will continue to feel that the NFL protestors are doing themselves more harm than good.

It's hard for me to listen to a millionaire talk about being oppressed.
 
Is there oppression today? I believe there is. But I also believe that if a person REALLY wants to improve his situation (other than just bitch about it) the biggest thing holding him back is looking back at him in the mirror.

Is it harder for a person of color to be successful than it is for a white person? Most likely, but it sure as hell is not impossible. It takes hard work. And a LOT of it. But it's definitely not impossible.

So I'll continue to vote with my wallet. I'll continue to talk to others and try to convince them not to watch NFL games and I will continue to feel that the NFL protestors are doing themselves more harm than good.

You believe there is oppression.
You believe it's harder for a black person to make it in this world.
You'd rather convince others not to watch the NFL, than to try and stop this oppression which you believe exists?

WOW!
 
You believe there is oppression.
You believe it's harder for a black person to make it in this world.
You'd rather convince others not to watch the NFL, than to try and stop this oppression which you believe exists?

WOW!
Wait a minute Kevin....Are you saying it's OK for the NFL players to protest their cause their way when they could use their millions to make positive changes BUT it's not OK for Mike to protest his beliefs by choosing to, and urging others, to not watch the NFL? I'm confused....
 
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

The problem with his statements lie within the examples that they used. Show us a few honest, non-criminal black people getting beat up by the cops and I'll be the first one standing with you to protest. Personally, I want the cops to beat the ever living snot out of criminals. The dude in Ferguson should have been shot dead in the store by the little shopkeeper that he had by the throat 10 minutes before he tried to take a cop's gun away. I have no pity over that one. Freddy Gray in Baltimore was a career criminal, and he used the tactic that is widely know on the street, get hurt during your arrest and you will go to the hospital instead of jail. He accidentally hurt himself worse than he had intended and died. The others were people putting others into harms way that refused to obey orders from the police, and got killed for doing so. Their entire argument is crap. We are not going to allow criminals to turn us into a society where they can get away with everything they want while the good citizens bear the brunt of their bad behavior. It just ain't going to happen.

And for the record, several of my (white) friends have disobeyed law enforcement in the past, and have had their asses kicked too. They deserved it. They know that t hey deserved it. It was nobody's fault but their own.

The whole point of these protests is 100% BS.

Any NFL player in ANY city in the US can go to their local home town TV station or newspaper and say, I want you to interview me about some concerns I have with our society, and they will immediately have a platform in which they can discuss their issues. It would be published or aired the very next day.

The issue is in the delivery. Saying "Black Lives Matter" is offensive to every other race as it implies that no other races matter. Protesting the anthem insults every American, including those of us who would otherwise support their position. We simply aren't going to listen until they stop insulting us. All of these players are supposedly college graduates, but I have not seen one iota of intelligence applied to this protest. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
 
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Freddy Grey ? How do you break your own neck while cuffed in the back of a cruiser ?

I fear the police more than the criminals
 
Wait a minute Kevin....Are you saying it's OK for the NFL players to protest their cause their way when they could use their millions to make positive changes BUT it's not OK for Mike to protest his beliefs by choosing to, and urging others, to not watch the NFL? I'm confused....

No Shawn, that's not what I'm saying. I'll let Edmund Burke say it for me...
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
 
Freddy Grey ? How do you break your own neck while cuffed in the back of a cruiser ?

I fear the police more than the criminals
With all due respect, that's the dumbest, most irresponsible statement I've ever heard anyone say. There are literally hundreds upon hundreds of arrests made by the police every day and not every one, and probably less than 1/100 of 1% end up like Freddy Grey. And more to the point, while Mr. Grey's death was truly tragic, it wasn't his fine upstanding citizenship that landed him in the back of that van. Obey the law or pay the consequences.

My son and daughter-in-law are police officers in a large California county. We've had this discussion. Scoflaw you make it sound like cops wake up in the morning with but one thought in their heads....to go kill someone today. The last thing a cop wants to do is take a life. But they do often think, "Man, I really hope some dirt bag doesn't ambush me today."

I have always made it a point to never insult someone on this forum, and I do apologize. Let me ask you a few questions....are you on parole? Do you have an outstanding warrant? If you were stopped by the police and asked to keep your hands in sight, would you? If told to "Freeze", would you? If you were told to get on the ground and don't move, would you? I could add more but if you answered No to the first 2 questions and Yes to the others, why would you fear the police? If you obeyed all of those commands you are not going to get a cap in your ass and the only thing hurt is a bit of dignity.

Since you fear the police the next time your wife or daughter is assaulted don't call 911. Drive to the nearest crack house and ask one of the residents for assistance....then you will know what real fear is.
 
Actually I'm out on bail "assault with a dangerous weapon" is the charge. I'm more than capable of taking care of any dangerous issue without help from the police. When the police are beating the shit out of you when your cuffed, who do you call then ? A lot of those cops watch too much TV, many have a tough guy attitude. The police are nothing more than an organized gang.

Question to you remains, How does someone in police custody end up dead with a broken neck. You say that's an old trick, hospital instead of jail ?
 
I fear the police more than the criminals
Well, I guess the next time you're being carjacked or your wallet taken from you at gunpoint, you're going to call one of your neighborhood crack heads to come to your rescue. Let me know how that works out for you, will ya?

Do what the nice policeman orders you to do and you won't have any problem. That's a lesson I learned in elementary school. Apparently you went to a school that taught different lessons.

That lengthy post I made about the young, black lady from the coal mining country was simply to show that leaving the situation you're in CAN be done. It involves conscious choices being made then sticking with those choices.

I did the same thing in my life. I left home at 15, graduated from high school, went in the USAF for 7.5 years, during which time I ALWAYS had a part time job and ALWAYS was taking college classes. When I got out of the USAF I had a full time job, and part time job and still took college classes.

I didn't want to be some poor, broke MF who didn't know where the next meal was coming from.

Yes, I do believe it's more difficult for a young person of color to succeed, but it takes having enough backbone to make the right decisions then stick to them.
 
Well, I guess the next time you're being carjacked or your wallet taken from you at gunpoint, you're going to call one of your neighborhood crack heads to come to your rescue. Let me know how that works out for you, will ya?

What's up with calling a crackhead to the rescue ? How did the crackheads get involved ? Like said, I was defending myself against an attack, but police didn't see it that way and charged me. Got a pretrial hearing for 11/1. My lawyer doesn't see the charge either, and has filled a motion to dismiss. No one is going to call me a victim.

Want to here more how Freddy got his broken neck while cuffed. Wonder how that might incite a riot ? Go figure
 
Kaepernick2.png


Cq5RAdaUsAA0o1-.jpg
 
Yes, I do believe it's more difficult for a young person of color to succeed, but it takes having enough backbone to make the right decisions then stick to them.

It shouldn't be more difficult for a black person to succeed, that's the problem right there.

I believe that's Kapernick's message. He's seen the privilege that goes along with having rich white parents and he's also knows what it's like for blacks with far less. With all due respect GFC, it's this dismissive attitude which continually hinders any type of progress for racial relations in this country.

We can't admit there's oppression in our society and then blame blacks for not being strong enough to overcome.
 
Somewhere early on in this thread someone asked me what, if anything, I was doing to help overcome this oppression. Well, I admit it's not a lot, but here's what I've done:

1. I am a volunteer instructor for Junior Achievement. That's something I have done since about 1992-93. I teach a 7th grade curriculum to two classes in the spring and two in the fall in a lower income, mostly Hispanic school that has an exceptionally high percentage of their kids on free and/or reduced cost lunch programs.

With the permission of the JA supervisory staff, I have set up my own curriculum to teach them things like how to set up a budget, writing checks and keeping a check register, using debit and credit cards, maintaining their credit history, etc. We emphasize how to make good choices, the long term effects of the choices they make, making commitments to ourselves and others, how to conduct yourself in a job interview, etc. These are things the kids are not taught in any other class throughout school, yet they are things the kids are expected to know.

2. I have volunteered since the early 90's to work several shifts at the JA bowling tournament fund raising event. Over the course of the annual 6 day event I work about 5-6 shifts for a total of about 40-50 hours. I've done it long enough that I know how to do each of the jobs that needs to be done and often do several different jobs in an evening.

3. Until a guest passenger did something really stupid that could easily have cost her life, we did dinner cruises each year for the JA fund raiser. The cruises were for 4 people and included dinner with 3 bottles of wine. Each cruise raised between $250-$350 for JA.

As I said, it's not much, but I am making my contribution.

What about you Scoflaw and Boater420? What contributions are you making?
 
I'm not sure how any volunteer work I do changes the fact that there's still oppression in this country?

Will anyone reading this thread...
Open their eyes to the real problems facing the black community in this country? Maybe.
Spend a few moments trying to get their friends to see things from the side of the oppressed? Maybe.
Begin to understand the frustration experienced by the black community? Maybe.
Empathize with the black community as they try to work through the accepted oppression and challenges? Maybe.

I guess what I do is try to open dialogue and see if MAYBE some of what I post makes sense to those who read along.
 
Boater 420, What oppression is the anthem and flag a symbol for? How are minorities being oppressed by the laws and principles of the U.S.? Oppression is a very specific thing. It is the unjust/cruel use of authority. It is not legally permitted in this country. In fact, the flag and the anthem stand in stark contrast to it.

Of course oppression happens. Probably every human being alive experiences it. And no government will ever be able to eliminate it. But, government should outlaw it. And this one does emphatically. Cases of use of force by police are hard to cipher when there is incomplete information which is almost always. The fact that some verdicts or even many verdicts are wrong does not mean this country's laws and values stand for or even tolerate oppression.

It is no different than refusing to stand for the anthem because of rape. It happens because there are bad people. Some (maybe many) men get away with it. Does that mean this country is oppressing women? No, it just means it is hard to get it right when trying to figure out what in fact happened. Same is true for police use of force.

This is the basic reason the kneelers efforts are falling flat with so many people. The anthem and flag are not symbols for what they complain about.
 
And as to your question, about:

"Will anyone reading this thread...
Open their eyes to the real problems facing the black community in this country? Maybe.
Spend a few moments trying to get their friends to see things from the side of the oppressed? Maybe.
Begin to understand the frustration experienced by the black community? Maybe.
Empathize with the black community as they try to work through the accepted oppression and challenges? Maybe."

Kneeling for the anthem does not encourage the above. In fact, I think it discourages it. And, the biggest problem facing the black community is the breakdown of the family. That has been, in large part, an unintended consequence of decades of leftist policies. The breakdown of the family is also the biggest threat to the rest of the races which are following not too far behind. This is dangerous.
 
Freddy Grey ? How do you break your own neck while cuffed in the back of a cruiser ?

I fear the police more than the criminals
As a resident of the Baltimore area, we probably got more news reports that the rest of the country. There were at least 2 witnesses that heard something banging around in the back of the police van (not a cruiser) while the police were several feet away. He was cuffed, but not seat belted or chained to anything inside of the van. He broke his neck while trying to inflict a head wound that would land him in the hospital instead of the clink. He simply overdid it. It was the basis for all of the officers not being convicted of any wrong doing. Of course, the media only distributed the part of the story that made the police out to be the bad guys and completely ignored all of the exculpatory evidence. Much better to foment the hate and discontent we see from the liberal / criminal world.

I love the police. In every instance in which I have had to deal with them, it has been a pleasant experience. Of course I treat them with respect, listen to their demands, and end up being on my way unscathed in short order. My friends... not always so much. Several of them have behaved in a manner in which they caused themselves difficulty. I once watched one of my (white) friends get way out of line, which earned him a knock upside the head with the large 5 cell flashlight. Once the officer picked up off of the ground, he proceeded to tell the officer, "What's up with hitting me with the flashlight? I paid taxes so you can carry a billy club.". Well, the officer hit him again with the club. Needless to say, my friend said getting hit with the flashlight was better than getting hit with the club. Right after he admitted that he deserved what he got. I agreed. Point is, white folks get beat up by the cops, too. When they deserve it...
 
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