Ban my semi-automatic weapon--NOT LIKELY

Discussion in 'The Tiki Bar' started by Gofirstclass, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. highslice

    highslice Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Mar 28, 2008
    Table Rock Lake, Hollister Missouri
    270 SLX
    496 Mag
    Bravo III
    Corsa
    Yes, the ability to have a political debate in this country without rancor and hatred entering the equation is pretty much gone. Compromise is pretty much gone from the system. It is what made this country great. Regan and O'Niel couldn't have been farther apart philisophically, but could put that aside for the good of the country. We seem to have lost that. It is now a giant game of gotcha. I never liked him, but I would kill to have BILL Clinton over Obama because Clinton knew how to compromise. We can debate where this all went wrong, I woould say it started with Obama, Reid and Pelosi. You would probably disagree. One thing is certain, if it continues we are f'd as a country.
     
  2. ttmott

    ttmott Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    Yes, but if you really want to peel the onion back insinuating good Americans as criminals started with Joseph McCarthy who was a republican. No doubt today those three exude reckless, and unsubstantiated accusations and are doing a great job breaking us; there is a popular term for these behaviors - demagogic. Actually, what these folks are trying to do is a form of McCarthyism. Don't also forget what Biden tried to do but got slapped down.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2016
  3. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    97 270 Sundancer
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    8.2 Mercs,
    7.4 BII
    260hp Alpha 1
    For those longing for the good old days when Regan and O'neil could share a drink and work together, it is simple why this can never be found again.

    Computers.

    Politicians now select their voters rather than vice-versa via computerized voting records. The majority dislikes the other guys reresenative while approving of their own. This is how 2 districts, of similar people, that adjoin can both vote 60%+, one for a staunch Democrat and the other for a staunch Republican. The Washington Post reported that 405 of the 435 house seats the front runner had a 90% chance to win. Redistricting allows a street or neighborhood of Dems to be moved to a Dem safe district and vice-versa. The big parties effectively lock out third parties, then do an all out war on the remaining 30 or so seats. (There are occasional big flips but they don't happen often.) Any representative from a safe district HAS to toe the party line. That is how we got ObummerCare...

    MM
     
  4. 2000SR380

    2000SR380 Member

    451
    Feb 17, 2014
    Emeryville, CA
    2005 Sea Ray 280 Sundancer, Express Cruiser
    Two 5.0L Gas Mercruiser V8, B3 Outdrives
    In this crowd I feel pretty left field, but I agree completely that salvation is in compromise. To far Left, or too far Right, and there is myopic insanity. I liked that Clinton and Gingritch were able to hammer out enough compromise to actually balance a budget and pay on the National Debt. Decrease the size of the Federal Government and govern a time of peace and economic prosperity. Both just wastes of carbon and water when it comes to being human beings, and yet they did pretty well as leaders. Today I think if we look for leadership from Washington, our country is in trouble. They can no longer compromise and are absorbed in name calling, blaming, and hateful rhetoric. Economic recovery is going to have to start with you and me. With the private sector and individual citizens demanding accountability, rewarding honesty, and glorifying fairness and responsibility over paper profits. God it hurts me to write this, but it really may be about the "thousand points of light". I think it is up to us. Somehow I can not see Hillary or Donald pulling it together, booting the Lobbyists out, and fixing what is wrong with Washington.
     
  5. highslice

    highslice Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Mar 28, 2008
    Table Rock Lake, Hollister Missouri
    270 SLX
    496 Mag
    Bravo III
    Corsa
    Have you ever looked at the net worth of our politicians before and after taking office? Most "public servants" in Washington go there with a modest net worth and leave as millionaires. How does that happen? We all know that republicans and democrats alike sell their souls. I know a lot of people don't like Trump but he does not need to whore himself in Washington to get rich. Something to be said for that. Romney was in the same position.

    Jefferson was right, we should have a revolution every once in awhile to remind those that serve at our pleasure who they are serving.

    Did anyone watch the Obama hall meeting last night? Or should I call it a lecture to the unworthy about how smart he is and how stupid we all are....
     
  6. Tonka Boater

    Tonka Boater Active Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Wayzata, MN
    1997 232 BR
    502 MAG, Bravo I
    I am 100% in favor of individual gun rights and I am not an Obama supporter. With that said... I watched highlights of the debate/townhall and I see valid arguments points on all sides. This is going to sound crazy coming from a conservative but I don't necessarily disagree with O's new gun laws regarding closing the loopholes. All guns dealers should be federally registered (outside of antique sellers and small sellers who only sell a few a year). If you sell online or at trade shows as your main, or a significant, source of business then you are a dealer and should be registered. What's the problem with that?

    I understand that bad guys will always get their hands on guns and that background checks won't stop them....that's obvious. Someone intent on committing a crime will commit a crime. That's not the main point of laws. The point is to maintain an organized history of gun transactions. As a gun owner myself, I think it's irresponsible to allow weapons to be sold willy-nilly without any regard to who's buying them. It's similar to registering a vehicle...yes, a vehicle can be used to commit murder and bad people will be able to buy them illegally but, by and large, we have traceability of ownership of every vehicle ever manufactured and purchased since at least the 1950's because they need to be registered at the time of sale. I have no problem doing the same thing with guns. There is value in knowing the history of a vehicle and there's value in knowing the history of a gun. How would you feel if you bought a gun at a trade show and found out it was stolen and had been used in a crime? I want to know the guns I buy are clean just the same as knowing the boat or car I buy is clean. Tracking the sale and ownership does not mean the government is trying to take away your rights. Why should I care if the government knows that I own a vehicle? Why should I care if they know that I own a boat? Why should I care if they know that I own a gun?

    I DO NOT agree with tracking people with mental health issues by creating a database for anyone from the age of 16 that has had any meds for mental health. There is no correlation there whatsoever. The term "mental health" is way to broad to be suspicious and track someone who was once given a prescription for Xanax at some point in their live due to a situation that you know nothing about. Taking medication for a mental health issue does not mean that person is at risk of going on a rampage. Talk about the epitome of Big Brother.
     
  7. ttmott

    ttmott Well-Known Member

    Apr 3, 2012
    Space Coast Florida
    2006 52 Sedan Bridge
    Cummins QSM11
    Here is my take regarding that - there is no constitutional right to possess a motor vehicle consequently I don't see the parallel other than the symbolic comparison. Here is the issue and where the NRA (heaven forbid) is standing. The current administration made a concerted effort to challenge the second amendment as to what it's intent is regarding who has the right to own a firearm. That happened, I believe, six years ago and went down in flames. What is going on now is the back door means to chisel away at the rock. I don't trust anything that say or do at this point with regards to messing with the status quo. It's a violation for a felon to possess or use a fire arm - enforce the current law. If there is a member in society that should not possess a firearm in the opinion of their family and community then take care of it at that level. This is not a federal issue and especially this administration's.
     
  8. MLauman

    MLauman Member

    729
    Oct 3, 2006
    Madison, MS
    1997 270 Sundancer
    7.4 Bravo II
    As far as I know, there has never been a segment of society that has openly called for the confiscation of your car or boat. However, the notion of gun confiscation is trotted out by the liberals on a regular basis under the guise of 'gun control'. A formal gun registration database would significantly simplify that process and is the first step in that direction. And while Barack Hussein Obama would publicly chastise that position as a 'conspiracy theory', I am reminded of his similar statements regarding keeping my healthcare. If and when this country faces the inevitable (albeit highly unfortunate) circumstance of having liberals back in charge of the legislative and executive branches I would prefer some degree of anonymity.
     
  9. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    Tonka, It's VERY hard to draw any similarities between car ownership and gun ownership. Gun ownership is guaranteed in the bill of rights. Car ownership is a right, but it is also required to be registered before it can be driven on the nation's highways.

    One problem with your comments about a mental health data base is that you are making an invalid assumption. That assumption would be that there would be only one category--you're either on the list or you're not. A nationwide database could be set up with many different categories or levels. Persons who are potentially a danger and should not be allowed to buy a gun could be identified in some way inside that database. A later check of a person who is in the database but not identified as potentially dangerous would be able to buy a gun. A person who is in the database and had been identified as potentially dangerous would be precluded from buying a gun.

    I have a problem requiring a person who buys and sells a few guns a year to register a dealer and require him to get background checks on potential buyers. Criminals, as you said, are still going to obtain guns. Why put law abiding citizens through the unnecessary steps before they can buy a gun.

    Another issue is that if we do this, we could be stepping on the slipper slope of further restrictions on gun buyers.

    My suggestion is to enforce the laws that are already on the books. Over 80,000 felons were identified as trying to buy guns and those sales stopped. But only on a handful of cases were those people prosecuted for the felony crime that was committed when they tried to buy a gun. Let's go after those people and toss their butts in jail.
     
  10. Tonka Boater

    Tonka Boater Active Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Wayzata, MN
    1997 232 BR
    502 MAG, Bravo I
    It did go down in flames and the Supreme Court ruled that personal ownership of firearms is a protected right under the Constitution.


    We already have a formal gun registration database. When you apply for a permit and submit to a background check you are entered into the database whether or not you buy a gun. When you do, in fact, purchase a gun this is also currently documented. This is not new. What's new is expanding the definition of a dealer so that fewer guns can be easily purchased by people who shouldn't be purchasing them in the first place.

    I agree, enforce the laws already on the books. As I noted above, we already screen and collect info on gun buyers -- I simply agree with the idea of expanding the definition of a dealer. I also agree, if you sell a few guns a year then you are not a dealer. If you travel the country selling firearms at trade shows, then lets be honest, you're a dealer. You sell guns in a pawn shop, you're a dealer.

    Keep in mind....I am 100% in favor of our Constitutional right to own firearms but I'm also in favor background checks.
     
  11. LTD.330

    LTD.330 Active Member

    Oct 5, 2009
    Lake Erie
    1999 Sundancer 330
    7.4 MPI
    Not quite.

    Each state has their own rules to how they issue and document concealed carry licenses. I think most states will flag your driver's license or auto registration as belonging to a person who has a CCW permit.

    At the Federal level F-troop is prohibited by law from building a DB of gun owners from the 4473 form you complete when purchasing a firearm.

    0's EO's are designed purely to intimidate the law-abiding and will do nothing to curb gun-related violence. Claiming you are an unlicensed firearms dealer if you sell two or more firearms in a year is ludicrous.
     
  12. Tonka Boater

    Tonka Boater Active Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Wayzata, MN
    1997 232 BR
    502 MAG, Bravo I
    When you apply for a permit the feds are required to delete the request within 24 hours.... I doubt anyone here is that stupid to believe there is not already a national database. The article below makes the argument for buying firearms from private parties to avoid being in the database. I would not do that personally because you have no way of knowing the history of the gun or the person you bought it from. Heaven forbid something happens and the gun you bought from a private party turns out to have been used to commit a crime. Not worth it for me...I would rather buy it from a dealer and run the check. That way I know the gun is clean and so am I.

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/09/daniel-zimmerman/think-dont-national-gun-registry/
     
  13. LTD.330

    LTD.330 Active Member

    Oct 5, 2009
    Lake Erie
    1999 Sundancer 330
    7.4 MPI

    The Federal Government does not issue concealed carry permits. Individual states issue concealed carry permits and every state has its own rules and own implementation. Kind of like driver's licenses but each state added their own restrictions. In Ohio, if you have been a resident for 5+ years, no federal check is conducted.

    Another thing to keep in mind, way less than 2% of the population has a concealed carry permit. It's not an effective way to build a list of gun owners.

    A website is not an "authoritative source". Note the author was interchanging NCIC with NICS throughout the article. NCIC tracks people/crimes, NICS tracks firearms. Even the author states it is his opinion "Whether it’s legal or not, I have no doubt that every time I bought a firearm after filling out a 4473". The law (USC 922 & 926) says firearms can be tracked but not firearms owners. So while it is illegal for NICS to track buyers it boils down to do you trust your government to follow the law?
     
  14. OllieC

    OllieC Active Member

    491
    Mar 11, 2013
    MinniSoCold
    2005 Weekender 215
    Mercruiser 5.0 mpi, Bravo III

    Great point....and to your question, no. Their past record has garnered my distrust.
     
  15. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    Amen to the last part of your post. I trust our federal gubmint about as far as I could throw the White House and that bunch of bums that lives there. And I am not some commie pinko bustard that is secretly plotting to overthrow the gubmint.
     
  16. Tonka Boater

    Tonka Boater Active Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Wayzata, MN
    1997 232 BR
    502 MAG, Bravo I
    Correct...I wasn't implying the feds issue the permit. The feds run the background check in most cases and the linked article was to illustrate a point. No, a random website is not an authority however a person would have to be very naive to believe that the background check requests are being deleted and even more naive to believe that when you purchase a firearm it's not be tracked and cataloged somewhere.

    I am no conspiracy theorist but look at what Snowden revealed. The government is tracking and storing every single thing we do online and listening to every phone conversation. They have back doors into Google, Microsoft, Apple, Comcast and everyone else.... don't you think a gun database would be pretty simple considering they are the gate keepers for the background checks? Hackers got into Targets credit card system...that would be easy for the feds to tap into too without anyone knowing about it. It's not a stretch to think that every transaction at every registered firearms dealer is being recorded -- whether the dealer is complicit or even knows about it.
     
  17. geo737

    geo737 Member

    147
    Jun 5, 2012
    Oak Harbor, Washington
    1979 sea ray 195 I/O, White over blue. no electronics as of yet. Pulled behind 2004 Ford Expedition
    228 Mercruiser - 5.0 Chevrolet engine w/Alpha Outdrive
    I have been following this thread with keen interest, being a firearm owner and having a concern of the potential issues it may have in the future. I received an email today from the NRA-ILA, as I am on their mailing list that it quite troubling. Is anyone from WA state familiar with these bills and is anyone from other states seeing anything like this?

    On Monday, January 11, the Washington state Legislature began its 2016 legislative session. The 2016 session commences with legislation carried over from 2015 as well as newly introduced anti-gun legislation aimed at attacking your Second Amendment rights!

    Here are the most pressing issues as the 2016 session opens:
    House Bill 2354, sponsored by state Representative Jim Moeller (D), would ban the possession, purchase, sale, transfer and manufacture of many semi-automatic rifles, pistols and shotguns, defined as “assault weapons” based solely on their cosmetic features. The bill would also prohibit arbitrarily-defined “large capacity” ammunition magazines. This misguided piece of legislation would only affect law-abiding gun owners in Washington by criminalizing individuals for simply exercising their constitutional right to Keep and Bear Arms.
    House Bill 1857, carry over legislation sponsored by state Representative Laurie Jinkins, would allow a family, “household member” or police officer to petition a court to take away a person’s firearms without consideration of due process.

    I am finding them both troubling, but the second bill more troubling than the first one listed. Perhaps a phone call to the state legislature is in order? Any thoughts from the group?
     
  18. Tonka Boater

    Tonka Boater Active Member

    Jun 11, 2008
    Wayzata, MN
    1997 232 BR
    502 MAG, Bravo I
    Those bills are clear violations of the 2nd Amendment -- I can't see how they could ever pass. If they do, then I agree we're doomed.

    The second bill (1857) is a clear violation of the 14th Amendment and would never be upheld by the SCOTUS. From the 14th Amendment, "No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
     
  19. MonacoMike

    MonacoMike Well-Known Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Indiana lakes and Lake Michigan
    2000 Cruisers 3870
    97 270 Sundancer
    85 Sea Ray Monaco 197
    8.2 Mercs,
    7.4 BII
    260hp Alpha 1
    While always concerned by assaults on our freedoms, foils need one another. Without the Brady bunch, Obummer, et al, the NRA would have to work hard to raise money. Without NRA, Brady wouldn't have the fundraising success they have. NRA needs these bills to exist.
     
  20. Gofirstclass

    Gofirstclass Well-Known Member GOLD Sponsor

    Apr 20, 2010
    Tri Cities, WA
    1995 550 Sedan Bridge,
    2010 Boston Whaler 130 Super Sport,
    1981 Boston Whaler 130 Sport,
    CAT 3406C's, 580hp.
    geo,

    Here's a link to a website where you can leave a message to your reps about that bill.... https://app.leg.wa.gov/PBC/Bill/2354 .

    I left this message to my reps:
    'Here we are yet again with another gun control law that a legislator is trying to get passed in his attempt to pander to the gun control crowd. Another law that the criminals can ignore. What is it about some people? They don't understand that laws like this will only apply to those people who are willing to obey the law. Criminals, by their nature, do not obey laws. It's already illegal to use a firearm in the commission of a crime. It's already illegal for felons and some other classes of people to possess a firearm. What is it about this law that the sponsor thinks will make people obey it? My suggestion is to enforce the laws already on the books. Arrest and prosecute felons who are caught with firearms. Do the same with people who possess firearms in the commission of a crime. Enforce the "gun enhancement" laws. Please join me and thousands of other WA voters in stopping this bill that will only affect law abiding gun owners. Thank you. "

    I got replies from two reps and both were solidly against the bill and will vote accordingly.
     

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