58 Sedan Bridge Official Thread

Those are the 4 problematic gaskets, so you should be good to go. I've had a couple of small leaks from the turbo oil return line, which have been replaced. Can't wait to hear about your trips....How old are the boys now?

 

Horn air tank leak: My Parts Diagram shows the tank next to the Kahlenberg pump above the port engine batteries in the ER on the stbd side. Mine is not there - Sea Ray customer services assured me that it is...It is not. Found mine on the bridge behind the removable MAN engine panels. My dock mate's '06's is up there as well. My other dock mate's '05 55DB (basically same layout as a 58DB) has his in the ER. Your mileage may vary...

Was losing pressure in the horn system. Kahlenberg stated it is probably the fittings and sent me a kit with a number of different ones. Found two leaking fittings using the soap spray method...easily replaced...It seems the plastic retainer rings internally fail in the fittings...

 

Carter can you send me info to contact Kahlenberg as I need the same kit they sent you - thanks so much - Scott Covington Trinity 58 Sedan

 

Hi Scott,

I called 920-793-4507. Our horn is a 24v P449-18...

 

Thanks so much for your reply - i will call them today -- my air horn compressor is in the engine room and my leaking valve is behind the Man Screens on the bridge --
thanks again

 

The MAN screens have long cables and you can lay it on some towels on top of your helm when you pull it. It helps to have a second person "stuff" the cables back in when you lift the screens up to re-screw them in place. The second person can also help you hold it as you remove screws to take it down. My air tank was on the left side and two of the fittings were leaking. Easy replacement!

 

Thanks Carter - we did find the leak was in the plastic fitting behind the Man screens and my compressor is in the engine room - we went to the local hardware store and bought fittings and it seemed to work but recently the compressor comes on just a bit every once in a while - so I still have a leak either at the compressor or behind the screen - I called and ordered the kit and much appreciate your part number -
will tackle it again soon -

On another note I am trying to find a vendor to make a carpet runner for the stairs - Searay made them internally they told me and I can't find a supplier with a templet -
any suggestions -

 

Hey guys! This is timely - mine has a slow leak as well. My tank is adjacent to compressor in ER. I’ll order the replacement kit as well!

 

I called today and just got the operator and she sent me to the correct person - gave him the part number - cost was $27 and it's coming out of Wis.

 

That's what I paid - think I talked to "Steve" - very helpful...

Take a spray bottle of water, add a little Dawn, and spray it on the fittings. It will quickly show slow leaks...or big leaks!!

I had one that I could easily hear/feel and find. I needed the spray to find the slow leak that was running my pump every 20-30 mins...

 

No ideas on the carpet...sorry.

 

I currently own a 2006 44 Sedan Bridge, I'm considering either a 52 or 58, Id rather go with the 58 but I have real reservations about the Man maintenance requirements and reliability rumors, could someone chime in and help me make a decision?

 

I just had the major maintenance completed two weeks ago. I’m away on the boat now but when I get home tonight I’ll give you a breakdown of what to expect. Carter also had this maintenance completed this spring.

 

Airplane Guy - I had my first major service done in January. $18,500. This is done every two years (in warranty), and can go 3 years once warranty is over. Yes, parts are more expensive then my CATs were, BUT - these engines run great! We've put 750 hours on in the two years we've owned them, and I am more impressed each day. We now have 1600 hours on them total. I'm glad I bought the '58 with them.

 

One more thing - I would not buy one that did not have extensive records, and definitely have an authorized MAN "man" do the engine survey. They take two hours of readings and provide you with great printouts of the data (load blocks, etc.)
Best $1200 you can spend.

 

Thanks for the info, so many boats have Mans, they must be doing something right. The boat I'm looking at is a 2006 with 1200 hrs, 1000hr service done 200 hrs ago. The boat looks like its brand new, even the white 50 amp power chord looks like they installed it yesterday. I've downloaded the Mans maintenance schedule from someone on this forum and will get a look at the records.

 

On the CRM-900s there is not a 1000 hr service...on the older non-common rail engines, there was...when you get your maint schedule, you will see 400/800/1600/2400 services and the two year major service...

I can send you one if you don't get it soon...

 

So I had the generator serviced at the same time as my major MAN service this past January. Now, 200 hours later, at 2800 hours, we ran it for 3 days over Memorial Day weekend, rafted up with another 58DB. On Monday morning (3rd day of running), I noticed some steam in the exhaust, and my flow was less then my dockmates, hotter water, and the exhaust was louder. Engine temp was about 200° instead of the usual 185°. You can guess where this is going...

At about 1PM she shutdown with a code of 58 - high EGT. So this Saturday, I checked the impeller - OK (only 200 hrs), open up the HE access cap - what a mess of calcium buildup! Took a wooden skewer and carefully rodded out each tube.- they were badly clogged. Mixed up a gallon of Frank W's "magic elixer" - 50% Strip Eaze (mild phosporic acid) and 50% water and poured it in the strainer while cranking the motor. Let it sit two hours, and then started the genny - it put out a foam curtain on the water for 30 seconds! Flow was back to normal, temp normal, sound normal! Fixed it just fine. Added a new AL anode (as we are now in fresh water) and it's good to go. I'll have "speaks" with the folks who did the major service!

If you are getting near that hour mark, you might want to remove your end cap and take a look...

 

As Carter said, there is no 1,000 hour service on these engines. When someone claims the 1,000 hour service has been done that is the first sign that they don't know what they are talking about with regard to the MAN service schedule. It doesn't really matter if the engines have been serviced "JUST" 200 hours ago. If you look at the M1-M5 service intervals and in particular the A1 and A2 services in the MAN manual you'll see why.

 

So there is a common perception that MAN maintenace is extraordinarily expensive. I only have prior Cummins QSC500 and QSM 11 experience to compare against and service for these engines is indeed more expensive than for those. I don't have personal experience with CAT. Some of the added costs is due to parts (though not as much as you would think) some of it is due to complexity (these are German designed and made...think Mercedes or BMW) and some of it is due to size; 15 Liter V8's producing 900 HP. There is a major maintenance schedule that MAN calls for to be performed every 2 years. This is comprised mostly of Cooler and Inter-cooler inspection and cleaning. Before I bought this boat I had a long discussion in person with the MAN US Engineering lead from their office in Pompano Beach, FL.. MAN told me that a typical Northeastern operated boat could safely go 4 years between this interval. That also nicely matches the A2 interval (coolant change). I just completed the service and the mechanic told me I could definitely extend to 5 years. This is the second time I've had this service performed. The first time was at purchase to provide a base line. As Carter has indicated, a Southern boat can probably go 3 years between this maintenance. So here's a cost breakdown of annual and periodic maintenance;

Annual (M1-M4)
Engine oil and filter change, Filters $26 each x 4 = $104, Filter washers and O-rings $7.50/filter = $30, 9 gallons synthetic 5W40 x 2 x $30/gallon = $540; total $674 ( I do oil and filter changes myself).
Transmission oil and filter change, Filters $25 each x 2 =$50, 2 gallons oil each x 2 x $18/gallon = $72, total $122
Fuel filters - Primary $66 each x 2 =$132, Secondary $50 each x 4 = $200, total $332
Total oil and filter changes annually $1128 (I've heard if you had this service performed it's about $2,000). Yes, there are 2 oil filters per engine and 3 fuel filters per engine, remember, think German. There are 2 Racors per engine also but that's not MAN specific.
Major (A1 and A2)
I have the break out for all of the parts and labor for this, but it's fairly extensive. The summary is 70 hours of labor @ $135/hr. = $9,450, travel time 4 hours @ $135/hr. = $540, remove, clean, test and reinstall; the engine heat exchangers $325 each x 2 = $650, gear oil coolers $225 each x 2 = $450, fuel oil coolers $200 each x 2 =$400, inter-coolers $200 each x 2 =$400, air filters $85 each x 4 = $320, engine coolant (Shell ELC) 10 gallons each x 2 x $30/gallon = $600, raw water impellers $120 x 2 = $240, miscellaneous belts, gaskets, washers and O-rings $3100. Although not on the maintenance schedule, I also have the mechanics change both drive belts on each engine. The fuel coolers and gear oil coolers are also not on the schedule but I do them anyway while they are down there as cheap insurance. All in bill for this service was $16,200 plus sales tax.

While I had the mechanics on the boat this year I also had them service the generator. Turns out my raw water pump drive shaft was worn and needed replacing. Apparently, this is an Onan update and should be looked at. That cost me another $700, parts and labor.

So, in summary, MAN engine maintenance is not cheap, though a lot of it can be done by anyone mechanically inclined. All of the work performed could be done by any competent diesel mechanic. Other than the parts, which can be ordered by anyone, none of this work required MAN specific knowledge. I really don't know how these costs compare to a new CAT C18 ACERT or equivalent MTU or Volvo engine, but I would expect their fluid (oil and coolant) volumes to be similar. One thing I do know now, once you get in to this boat size and horsepower range you need to be prepared for bigger expenses, both for the engines and all of the other boat systems.