420 SD vs Tiara 4300 Sovran - help me decide.

Congrats! Great boat for a family. I have always loved Tiaras but have owned Sea Rays due to the extra space and value. Do you have a name in mind for her? Any pics?

Enjoy!!
 
BillG72340 said:
Congrats! Great boat for a family. I have always loved Tiaras but have owned Sea Rays due to the extra space and value. Do you have a name in mind for her? Any pics?

Enjoy!!
Click to expand...

May continue the Pier Pressure lineage, and name her Pier Pressure III. The existing name is "Journey", which looks really good, so I'll consult with the family and see.

I'll get some pictures posted this weekend. In the meantime if you search Yachtworld for a 2005 420 Sedan Bridge in Grand Haven you'll see some pretty good pics.

Thanks,

Scott
 
Woody said:
what was the reason for difference in shown engine hrs? stbd 33, port 606
Click to expand...

Surveyor said he talked to the dealer who said that Cummins flashed the ROM at some point and it caused the issue. I plan to talk to Cummins myself and get to the bottom of it.
 
Scott,, congrats again, but just wanted to add, Give Rusty a shout. (seeing as how he offered)
He provided info on what was done to my boat under warranty by the previous owner. Nice to know the history.
He can also answer any questions you might have about anything else.
Not to mention he is just a great guy to talk to. But You might want to tell him not to call you at 4:30 in the morning :)
 
Last edited:
sb in gp said:
Surveyor said he talked to the dealer who said that Cummins flashed the ROM at some point and it caused the issue. ...
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm not buying this story.
 
Living in Holland where the Tiara plant is we see a lot of their boats. Personally, I don't like them. Anyway, congrats on your purchase, hope all goes well.

Meanwhile, GO LIONS!
 
Alex F said:
Sorry, I'm not buying this story.
Click to expand...

Hmm, well what other ideas do you have on why this would happen? I have extensive engine service records and nothing unusual is shown. The complet boat service records are in the mail.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Before jumping in to any conclusions I would study all the maintenance records, talk to more people that have any knowledge of this boat and review this with your hull and Cummins surveyor.
 
sb in gp said:
Hmm, well what other ideas do you have on why this would happen? I have extensive engine service records and nothing unusual is shown. The complet boat service records are in the mail.
Click to expand...

This conversation tickled a memory. My Cummins surveyor told me during my survey this past November that the computers they use to hook up to the engines can actually set the hours back to whatever they want. It's proprietary Cummins software of course and can only be done by Cummins. A reflash shouldn't have rolled the hours back, but if someone pressed the wrong buttons who knows? Tell them to roll back the other engine and you'll add some equity back into your new asset!!! Congrats and good luck!!
 
I received the service records today on the new (to me) 420 DB from the seller. I found some info that has me a little uneasy. In 2010 one of the motors had a major valve issue which required the motor to be pulled and a cylinder and head to be replaced. All the work was done by Cummins in their Milwaukee location (apparently the owner was travelling to Milwaukee when the failure occurred).

Here is a link to the Cummins record of the repair.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BztUBVNhUzkPZXVwYll6bHVGYWs/edit?usp=sharing

So this led me to do a little research on the Boatdiesel site and found some evidence that Cummins had a valve seat issue - here is a PDF of some of that info:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BztUBVNhUzkPekZ5aE5Gc3ozclk/edit?usp=sharing

Any thoughts or opinion from you diesel gurus? The current owner has put another 150 hours on her since this issue was repaired, and there is no record showing any other issues (and this guy had everything done by professionals, sparing little expense, including adding water to and changing his batteries).

I've got a little under 10 days to walk away from this deal. I've got a $20K escrow to cover any issues that arise at sea trial in the spring.

Thanks,

Scott
 
Cummins did the repair, not Bob's Shell Station. It logged 150 hours since the repair. I'd believe a good engine survey and oil analysis would pick up any problems. If not you are good to go. I would insist on a separate engine survey by a Cummins tech.
 
So you have to purchase it before you can do the sea trial?

If that's true, I'd be out, even with a $20k risk reducer. I'd then come back in the spring after doing more research on this valve thing. if i were still comfortable with it then I would start all over with the same boat because I bet it won't be sold by then. Then I'd give it a good sea trial before i purchased it. But that's just me.
 
Not an easy decision, that's for sure.

I'm looking at 3 major items:
1. The first cause of the failure is overloaded engine.
2. The 2nd, but we didn't an official statement from Cummins, is a bad batch.
3. The 3rd possible contributor is lack of valve adjustment job.

Here are the questions that pop up right away:
1. What was done to reduce the load to prevent for the issue from reoccurring?
2. Assuming that there's a chance for a bad batch, the good thing is that the engine in trouble hopefully was fixed with a brand new set of a totally (and hopefully non-defective) different batch. However, this automatically points out a puzzle regarding the other engine, as they're usually have very close serial # and most likely the parts came from the same batch. So, how can you make sure that the other side won't develop the same issue? We see that people trying to be pro-active and repair 2nd side as a precaution. But, obviously that's some expensive precaution step. So, even if the props are tweaked and valve adjustment is done, the possibility of bad batch is puzzling me, b/c there's no way to prove it or prevent another catastrophe.

So, if I was in your shoes, I would need some data to gain the comfort level. I would need to see that the WOT is no less than 2680RPMs, but preferably 2700+ (of course on both sides). I would need some data from Cummins referring to the batch that might be defective and if there's any connection that it could affect the other side. Cummins can say that this is just a rumor on the forum, but I would like to get something in writing from them stating that there was no defective batch.

Just my .02c FWIW.
 
Thanks guys. Looking forward to Frank weighing in too. My surveyor reviewed the document (he is a master mechanic) and he also leans towards overloading. This clearly occurred when owner was making the 80 mile run from Michigan to Milwaukee. I will call Cummins and ask if there is anything on a bad batch of motors.

Making a decision shortly so other opinions are welcomed and appreciated.

Scott
 
sb in gp said:
Thanks guys. Looking forward to Frank weighing in too. My surveyor reviewed the document (he is a master mechanic) and he also leans towards overloading. This clearly occurred when owner was making the 80 mile run from Michigan to Milwaukee. I will call Cummins and ask if there is anything on a bad batch of motors.

Making a decision shortly so other opinions are welcomed and appreciated.

Scott
Click to expand...

Is your "master mechanic" Cummins certified and work for a Cummins dealer?
 
techmitch said:
Is your "master mechanic" Cummins certified and work for a Cummins dealer?
Click to expand...

No. However, I've got same questions into the service manager at the West MI Cummins-Bridgeway shop. Could use as many opinions as possible at this point. Does anyone know someone that is Cummins certified that might be willing to render an opinion?

SB
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,186
Messages
1,428,171
Members
61,097
Latest member
Mdeluca407
Back
Top