420/44 DB Owners Club

[Bruce SEA 993]

Wait until you have to remove port side after cooler and fuel cooler for maintenance.

I'm stuck on the zincs. I wear a 2XL shirt size and I just cannot get in there. Need a skinny kid!

 

[Flix2]

From the factory, the 44DB had three pairs of GRP31 batteries. A bank of 2 wired in parallel (12V) for starting the port engine, starting the generator, and for house loads. This is called the port battery. Another bank of 2 wired in parallel (12V) for starting the starboard engine, helm electronics, and a few other miscellaneous low amperage loads. This is called the starboard battery. Both the port and starboard pairs were located on the port side of the boat. The third pair is a bank of 2 wired in series (24V) for the thruster(s), located as you describe on the starboard side.

The starting and starting/house banks were sized for sufficient CCA, I believe. I switched the port and starboard batteries to GRP31 AGM and added 2 more to the port bank (total of 4) for more house capacity.

It seems 2x4D for the starboard battery is overkill, unless perhaps other modifications were made to the electrical system. There are a lot of different batteries with different specs, but from what I have seen, a 4D battery provides similar CCA to a starting or combo GRP31, and a little less than twice as many Amp-hours, but is very heavy and difficult to move.

Your concerns about Li are valid. Great technology but you would presumably need to replace your charger/converter and also implement a solution for managing the alternator charging, both for extremely high charge load and zero load when fully charged.

Thank you very much for the explanation! The former owner of my DB44 installed some heavy duty steel racks for the those 4 4D's. It's impossible to trace the wires of the pair in the far back without removing the ones in the front rack. I'd like to check if wiring changes were made.

I like your setup with increased capacity for the 'port battery'. This leads to another question. Is it better to have 2 x 4d's or 4 x grp31 like yours?

Thanks!
Pete

 

[AEO]

From the factory, the 44DB had three pairs of GRP31 batteries. A bank of 2 wired in parallel (12V) for starting the port engine, starting the generator, and for house loads. This is called the port battery. Another bank of 2 wired in parallel (12V) for starting the starboard engine, helm electronics, and a few other miscellaneous low amperage loads. This is called the starboard battery. Both the port and starboard pairs were located on the port side of the boat. The third pair is a bank of 2 wired in series (24V) for the thruster(s), located as you describe on the starboard side.

The starting and starting/house banks were sized for sufficient CCA, I believe. I switched the port and starboard batteries to GRP31 AGM and added 2 more to the port bank (total of 4) for more house capacity.

It seems 2x4D for the starboard battery is overkill, unless perhaps other modifications were made to the electrical system. There are a lot of different batteries with different specs, but from what I have seen, a 4D battery provides similar CCA to a starting or combo GRP31, and a little less than twice as many Amp-hours, but is very heavy and difficult to move.

Your concerns about Li are valid. Great technology but you would presumably need to replace your charger/converter and also implement a solution for managing the alternator charging, both for extremely high charge load and zero load when fully charged.

In hindsight I think I overdid it.

I have 2 x 330 AH AGM for the port bank and 2 x 140 AH AGM for the starboard.

And I nearly always run the generator..

 

[Flix2]

In hindsight I think I overdid it.

I have 2 x 330 AH AGM for the port bank and 2 x 140 AH AGM for the starboard.

And I nearly always run the generator..

I don't know enough about batteries. Does it mean that you have 2 x 8D for port and 2 x GRP31 for starboard. Would you recommend port with 2 x 4D and starboard with 2 x GRP31?

 

[JNMNL52]

I have the 44 lb. Best anchor I ever had, sleep like a baby

Hi Mark: I am considering the purchase of a Vulcan 20 (44lb) for my 44DB. Did you have any compatibility issues with your anchor hardware configuration?

 

[AEO]

I don't know enough about batteries. Does it mean that you have 2 x 8D for port and 2 x GRP31 for starboard. Would you recommend port with 2 x 4D and starboard with 2 x GRP31?

Yes, both pairs are GRP31. I would recommend 4D’s for starboard as you don’t need all that cranking power and the GRP’s on the port side are more than enough to run the house.

My boat came with a neat battery isolator that I think is factory fitted that can tie the thruster batteries to the generator for an emergency start.

 

[Mark.60]

Hi Mark: I am considering the purchase of a Vulcan 20 (44lb) for my 44DB. Did you have any compatibility issues with your anchor hardware configuration?

I went with 200 ft chain- 100 ft line and the Mantus swivel and a bridal that was all put together by Defender’s

 

[bajturner]

Yes, both pairs are GRP31. I would recommend 4D’s for starboard as you don’t need all that cranking power and the GRP’s on the port side are more than enough to run the house.

My boat came with a neat battery isolator that I think is factory fitted that can tie the thruster batteries to the generator for an emergency start.

I view it a little differently.

The starboard battery bank does almost nothing other than start the starboard engine so CCA is important but a lot of A-hrs is not. The recommended CCA spec for the QSC-500 is 1,250. Some 4Ds can provide that, but not all. It would be possible to go with a single 4D if it's spec'd appropriately. A much simpler solution is 2 run-of-the mill Group 31s. It's easy to find GRP31s that can provide 600-800 CCA. Two of them in parallel provide double that.

On the port side, you need lots of amp-hours for the house loads. For sufficient capacity at anchor, we find 4 x GRP31s with ~125Ah rating each is just enough such that you don't have to run the generator too often. It depends on how you use the boat, of course.

@AEO, if you have an isolator of some kind between the thruster batteries, it was installed by a previous owner. This is not a factory option. The thruster batteries are wired in series from the factory to provide 24V to the thrusters alone.

There is, however, an emergency crossover installed from the factory that parallels the port and starboard banks such that any single engine can be started from the port and starboard banks connected together in parallel as a single battery. The switch is at the helm.

 

[Bruce SEA 993]

I follow what bajturner says. We sit at anchor in the cooler Northwest and do not need the generator for A/C.

I have 5 Group 31 105 amp batteries on the Port side to run the refers and a few other 12V things.

I used an online amperage calculator to see how much amperage we would need. I use a 300 watt solar but it is incredibly inefficient.

 

[Irie308]

Agree completely with @Bruce SEA 993 and @bajturner . I recently added smart shunts over the winter and found that almost everything we use at anchor runs off the port bank. This include vent fans, lights, refig, etc. As a test i fired everything up and we were pulling about 25 amps with everything running. We have what appears to be factory setup of 2 pairs of GRP31 batteries for port and starboard. I recently added another group 31 to the port bank to up the amp hours a bit so that we can run a bit longer.

 

[JNMNL52]

I went with 200 ft chain- 100 ft line and the Mantus swivel and a bridal that was all put together by Defender’s

Thanks; does the Vulcan fit on your standard Searay bow rollers without any modification; just a simple swap out of the anchors?

 

[AEO]

Agree completely with @Bruce SEA 993 and @bajturner . I recently added smart shunts over the winter and found that almost everything we use at anchor runs off the port bank. This include vent fans, lights, refig, etc. As a test i fired everything up and we were pulling about 25 amps with everything running. We have what appears to be factory setup of 2 pairs of GRP31 batteries for port and starboard. I recently added another group 31 to the port bank to up the amp hours a bit so that we can run a bit longer.

Curious to know the consensus for the starboard bank, deep cycle or starting batteries?

 

[bajturner]

Curious to know the consensus for the starboard bank, deep cycle or starting batteries?

I think a pair of dual purpose GRP31 marine batteries with 800+ CCA each would be a good choice.

Something like these: 31M-AGM battery | Interstate Batteries

 

[Mark.60]

Thanks; does the Vulcan fit on your standard Searay bow rollers without any modification; just a simple swap out of the anchors?

Yes it does

 

[Alex F]

Agree completely with @Bruce SEA 993 and @bajturner . I recently added smart shunts over the winter and found that almost everything we use at anchor runs off the port bank. This include vent fans, lights, refig, etc. As a test i fired everything up and we were pulling about 25 amps with everything running. We have what appears to be factory setup of 2 pairs of GRP31 batteries for port and starboard. I recently added another group 31 to the port bank to up the amp hours a bit so that we can run a bit longer.

As I recall, it's kind of a "rule of thumb" having PORT bank feeding majority of the house. The STBD side usually handles most items on the bridge, including the helm.

Since we stay on the hook most of the time, a pair of G31s wasn't good enough, so I added 3rd G31 battery to the PORT bank years ago and the issue was solved.

Quick tip, DBs are loaded with hyalogen lights from the factory, which draw a ton of juice. If you stay on the hook a lot and run lots of lighting, consider switching to LEDs, as the draw drops quite a bit. We're talking about from 25 to 5 amps.

 

[380 Manoverboard]

Got a dumb question. How do you "search" only "420 sundancer" posts in electronics in this forum.?

 

[Alex F]

Got a dumb question. How do you "search" only "420 sundancer" posts in electronics in this forum.?

I'm not sure how accurate the results will be, depending on what you're looking for, but it appears that there are some options.

Here's an example:

If no luck with above options, this syntax in google search usually works pretty good.

Type this in URL area
site:www.clubsearay.com "420 Sundancer"

 

[Irie308]

From what I can tell only the 42/44 DB uses the lace up option to secure the bridge canopy. I absolutely hate having to get to my arch as its a whole process. However i found out this weekend that I've been doing the lacing all wrong. I was using a zig zag pattern which would cause the zipper to shift which would misalign the polycarbonate panels which would then make the zippers hard to zip. Apparently the best way to do this is an up down then left or right pattern (depending on which side you are starting from). this was an eye opener as the zippers stay put and doesn't move when lacing. Its still a royal PIA as my fingers are shot by the end but keeps me from having to restart the process when i realize the panels are not zipping correctly. Who knew!?!

 

[Bruce SEA 993]

I used to dread taking the lacing off to access the radar arch. Now having done it a couple of times, I don't mind it other than it takes a long time to remove and replace.

Yes, the original up/down and left right works for alignment. I lace it up in about 3 stages of tightness so I do not kill my fingers. I don't worry about getting it super tight on the first go at it but instead just snug it up. Then I go back and move the cording that is in the grommets tighter and tighter after I get most of the top snugged up. It spreads the load and I don't have to pull on the end of the cord. Do that a couple of times and the top comes back to where it is supposed to be.

If the knots at the end of the cord end up in the same place they were when you removed it, then the top canvas is in the right place.

Hope this makes sense!

 

[bbwhitejr]

I used to dread taking the lacing off to access the radar arch. Now having done it a couple of times, I don't mind it other than it takes a long time to remove and replace.

Yes, the original up/down and left right works for alignment. I lace it up in about 3 stages of tightness so I do not kill my fingers. I don't worry about getting it super tight on the first go at it but instead just snug it up. Then I go back and move the cording that is in the grommets tighter and tighter after I get most of the top snugged up. It spreads the load and I don't have to pull on the end of the cord. Do that a couple of times and the top comes back to where it is supposed to be.

If the knots at the end of the cord end up in the same place they were when you removed it, then the top canvas is in the right place.

Hope this makes sense!

I used to unlace just enough to loosen things up and then unzip it from the arch w/o having to unlace much at all.

Bennett