410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

Sliding that pipe over isn't easy. Well so far it has been impossible. I did get that fitting on the right all the way unthreaded but even with leverage I can't get the whole assembly to slide left. I did soap up the fitting.

What I have found is that if I rotate that fitting on the left side it unscrews and pushes the pipe into the tank. I am hoping if I back that all the way out it will shove the pipe in far enough for me to get everything out. This job sucks. I wish I had started recording when I did this so I could put it on YouTube for the next poor shlep who has to do it. Cause it is nothing like the stbd side, as far as access.
 
RollerCoastr said:
I'm afraid my AP is too old be a guide for a new system, but after seeing that antique VHF in the video I'm glad to hear about the panel project. :D Have you decided what you're going to replace it with?
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LOL, if you think my VHF is old, you should see my radar. But it's the open array and looks cool.

I'm gonna replace my panels with the ones from Flounder Pounder. Are you familiar with that site?
 
I got those damn duckbills changed. They were bad and needed it.

The trick, at least what worked for me was to soap up the left side tube and then start backing out that fitting which pushes the tube into the tank. Once you reach a point where the soaped up section is fully into the tank it can be moved by hand. Not really that hard had I known what to do from the start.

But the water still runs continuously. I can make it stop by sort of jiggling the foot flush lever. So the real problem must be there. I think there are plenty of discussion about that around these parts so back to search I go.
 
gmaki said:
I got those damn duckbills changed. They were bad and needed it.

The trick, at least what worked for me was to soap up the left side tube and then start backing out that fitting which pushes the tube into the tank. Once you reach a point where the soaped up section is fully into the tank it can be moved by hand. Not really that hard had I known what to do from the start.

But the water still runs continuously. I can make it stop by sort of jiggling the foot flush lever. So the real problem must be there. I think there are plenty of discussion about that around these parts so back to search I go.
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mine is a very slow leak somewhere as well so I’ve opted to remove the toilet and vacuum generator completely and rebuild every part including the hoses. I’ll do it while the boat is laid up

i cleaned the vacuum tank on my old boat, it’s appalling what it looks like after 20 years
 
RollerCoastr said:
Yep - it sounds like that's what it's doing. The Garmin thinks you have 2 starboard engines. Set the DIP switches to port/starboard?

If that sorts it, you might want to hit demo mode (#4) before closing the gateways back up so you can configure the Garmin without the ignitions being on.
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Got it sorted yesterday. It was the master/slave setting that was messing it up. She’s good to go now. Pretty cool toys! Looking forward to putting some miles on these gateways next year. Wish I hadn’t waited so long
 
Bummer :( Great season, though.


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midexp said:
Guys, here's what I get fuel economy with my 400 gassers. \

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Little late replying, I appreciate the video such great insight! Your burn rate at that speed is lower then I was expecting (I calculated 22mph/.75mpg) = 30 gph. I was told big blocks ran at 35 gph at cruise in a boat our size. I think when many think of the 454's they compare to the older carb versions or the new 8.1's, both of which have a higher burn rate.

My 3116 cats at 2250 rpm do 23-23.5 mph and burn 20 gph, which is about 1.15 mpg. They actually burn less fuel than the pair of 4.3 V6's I had in my previous 290 Sundancer, I have been very impressed with them! I think the mileage with both the diesel and gas has more to do with hull design then the fuel type, as both power choices do very well for a 40' cruiser.
 
Ezsteps said:
Wishing I would have done the same. Mines coming out Monday the 17th. Gotta love cold rain.:mad:
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Hauled ours earlier this week, looking like low 60’s next weekend so I may get to wax/polish her before Shrinkwrap.
Last season I waited until spring, when do you do yours?
 
Firemedic181 said:
Hauled ours earlier this week, looking like low 60’s next weekend so I may get to wax/polish her before Shrinkwrap.
Last season I waited until spring, when do you do yours?
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I do quick coat of wax/sealant after a wash before it gets wrapped then the full polish and detail in the spring. I find it helps keep it clean through the winter and speeds up the process in the spring

I’m also finally to the point where it won’t need a full 3 step process on the hull sides so it’ll just be a polish/sealant before we splash it.
 
Strecker25 said:
I do quick coat of wax/sealant after a wash before it gets wrapped then the full polish and detail in the spring. I find it helps keep it clean through the winter and speeds up the process in the spring

I’m also finally to the point where it won’t need a full 3 step process on the hull sides so it’ll just be a polish/sealant before we splash it.
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Any particular brand you find to work better then another?
I waited until spring last season as we just got the boat end of last year, and I painted bottom and waxed the hull this spring but may have rushed the process as it was all new to me
 
Firemedic181 said:
Any particular brand you find to work better then another?
I waited until spring last season as we just got the boat end of last year, and I painted bottom and waxed the hull this spring but may have rushed the process as it was all new to me
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Detail products tend to spark conversation similar to religion and politics lol, but I switched to Starke products this year (from 3M) and I’m very happy with the results and durability.

this is after a full northern season with only washes, no mid season wax.

4187B440-E5FA-4A6B-A78B-6C42D69E5EBB.jpeg
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midexp said:
Guys, here's what I get fuel economy with my 400 gassers. \

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Greg, I finally watched your video, great work. As we have discussed my 2000 410 doesn't get the economy that yours does. After a 300 mile trip last summer I averaged about .64 mpg, now that did include getting on plane, rough weather on Lake Erie etc. but clearly not as good as what you get. What size props are on your 1999? Mine are 4 blade 21x21.

Attached is the graph I put together from my Fox Marine Gateways a few years ago. The big gap in the data is the transition from cruise to on plane. Some of the data is interpolated but in general just as you described the faster you go you see a drop off in MPG:

410 gasser Fuel Economy.JPG
 
Captain Brian said:
Greg, I finally watched your video, great work. As we have discussed my 2000 410 doesn't get the economy that yours does. After a 300 mile trip last summer I averaged about .64 mpg, now that did include getting on plane, rough weather on Lake Erie etc. but clearly not as good as what you get. What size props are on your 1999? Mine are 4 blade 21x21.

Attached is the graph I put together from my Fox Marine Gateways a few years ago. The big gap in the data is the transition from cruise to on plane. Some of the data is interpolated but in general just as you described the faster you go you see a drop off in MPG:

View attachment 135392
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i think something often unaccounted for is the brief periods of big burn. As you said, getting on plane is a great example. Although my gateways reported 1.4mpg once up to cruise (on our 290) the overall economy per tank of fuel was much less since our normal boating is a lot of getting up on plane, dropping down, back on plane, etc. On long trips where we’d burn nearly a full tank in a single run it was always very close to what the gateways were reporting in real-time.
 
I would expect every boat will have slightly different burn numbers depending on how it’s loaded (fuel, passengers), bottom condition, sea conditions, tab usage etc. But this data gives pretty good real world idea of what you can expect and make fuel planning a lot easier.
 
A diesel version for comparison. This is based on CAT published burn numbers and actual speeds of my boat on a calm inland lake, 1 person, 3/4 fuel, clean bottom.

My best mpg is at 700-800 RPM where I'm getting over 3 NMPG at about 6.5 kts. My cocktail speed is at 950 RPM at about 7.5 kts and 2.9 NMPG.

For cruise, I get a slight bump in efficiency between 2200 (.99 NMPG) and 2400 1.00 NMPG). My best Efficiency is at 2300 RPM and 1.07 NMPG.

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