fropleyquark
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- Dec 30, 2007
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Sorry, I guess the previous, previous.... I meant like this one that was posted earlier....
New 350 Sundancer
- Thread starter Red Stripe
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Sorry, I guess the previous, previous.... I meant like this one that was posted earlier....
sbw1
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Do you think that is too high? A 2008, 32 foot Tiara open is 35 feet loa without a swim platform. Add that and it's 38 loa with a 13 foot beam and weighs around 19,000 pounds. Sounds very similar to the 35' SR. The retail on the Tiara with popular options is $332,355. It can be bought for $292,272 or $28,000 less than the 35 SR.
The options I included in this example are: bottom paint, upper cockpit carpet, swim platform w/ladder, ice maker in lieu of cockpit fridge, genny, ARC spotlite, macerator, a $24,000 allowance for electronics, full hardtop, and drop curtain. Standard features on the 3200 include the usual things like a 12 volt fridge, a microwave, coffee maker, flatscreen 12volt tv and 12 volt dvd player, shower w/ over 6' of stand up head room, queen sized bed with full interspring mattress, lots of storage space, ultra leather upholstery, solid teak 3/4" hardwood floors and 16,000 BTU reverse cycle a/c and heat. Power is by Crusader, 385 HP 8.1s with straight inboards.
The Tiara has a keel and is slightly flater (18 degrees) but has sharper entry than the 35 SR. Its range is 204 miles and the gassers deliver about .8 mpg with a cruising speed of about 23 knots.
People in the market for a 35 foot boat (which is a great size for a lot of reasons) should look at a Tiara 3200 Open as a part of their shopping experience.
jrcinnh
New Member
SBW the Tiara 3200 is a nice boat but it's a lot different boat than a 340 DA or the new 350. The 3200 is only 35' if you're counting the pulpit, its 32' 7" without. The Sundancers don't have pulpits. Length wise a 3200 compares to a 320/330 DA. Now the 3200 is a lot wider, it's 13' versus 12' for the 340/350. Also the 3200 does not have a mid cabin, so it's hard to make an apples to apples comparison. The mid cabin on a 340/350 is pretty big, that's a lot of usable space to give up.
I think the new Searay's including the 350 are priced too high, even when compared to similar sized boats. They're starting to get to Formula levels. Luckily the market will sort this out.
I think the new Searay's including the 350 are priced too high, even when compared to similar sized boats. They're starting to get to Formula levels. Luckily the market will sort this out.
sbw1
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Do you have a site where the 35 SR specs are posted? I looked and did not find them. I think the match up with the 35 may be closer than you think. The Tiara's length is taken at the water line the way a navel archietect measures length. The 32 Dancer length includes the swim platform according to the web site, so it really does not match up with the Tiara. It's also thousands of pounds lighter. I know the aft cabin is below the helm, so the mid cabin is below the windshield in my way of thinking. The Tiara has quite a large mid cabin so I don't understand your comment. It also has an airconditioned 8' by 11' enclosed helm that adds gobs of usable space. It would be interesting to see actual specs on the 35.
wkearney99
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Mmm, what are you talking about? Just stand on the deck next to the pass-through windshield and turn the knob to loosen and tilt the antenna. What climbing on the arch?
SBW1 - Would you like to place an ad for a Tiara. I know we all look at other manufacturers but this like a person coming into a BMW dealership and saying anyone looking for a sedan should consider a Lexus (you can save $10 and they are exact same). Let me show you the window sticker for the Lexus and then you make the call. No there is not a lexusclub so I am here at the BMWclub to try and get you to buy a lexus.
sbw1
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Nope. Not trying to do that at all. Several have mentioned other competitors such as Regal, Cobalt,........etc. The specs that you provided (thank you) confirmed what I was thinking. The 3200 and 35 are very similar in size. Weight is about the same. Features and power very similar. Price for the SR is higher. Don't you find that interesting? I do.
wkearney99
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I agree. I've been wanting to see a 3900 Convertible in person. A friend has a 3200 and it's great boat, quite a lot of space inside. Not as 'comfy' as the typical express though, but fantastically well laid out in the engine compartment.
I am not looking for a 35 foot boat so don't really know. I know the 350 price that was mentioned was probably not the 25-30% off MSRP that people usually claim to get off their boat. I am not familiar with the 3200 except for what I read in postings from you, did they come up with a new model this year that you are quoting or is that the same model that has been around for a while and the wow factor is gone (not from customers but from dealers point of view). There is definately a difference between the negotiation of a boat that you can not find at your local dealer and a fourth year production boat. Take that away am I surprised that SR is higher, I don't know should Tiara be more? I know they are built by a small company that care about their customers at least that is what I read on the board from you and Sea Ray are mass produced and for that reason they don't take care of their customers. Maybe I am wrong but here is my impression, it seems like alot of your postings are trying to sell someone on Tiara over Sea Ray (a decision that you made several years ago) either the boat or the company. Again maybe I am wrong. There is nothing wrong with owning a different boat and participating in clubsearay, so do not take this the wrong way. The posting that I referenced was basically an ad telling people to come buy the Tiara, with options priced out, etc. Was just an observation by a member of the board not the moderator of the board.
Also I think when the others were mentioning the other manufacturers they were talking about the look of the other boats going in the same pattern of Sea Ray. But maybe I am wrong about that too....it is probably time for me to go to bed.
Wesley
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Woody
Well-Known Member
Sounded to me, like an attempt at a detailed comparison including pricing. Although it clearly had a "list"(another boat term) toward Tiara. Wesley, shouldn't you always be the moderator? How are we supposed to know which identity your are using, moderator or member?
jrcinnh
New Member
There's a link in this thread that leads to a LOA spec for the 350. The 340 specs are on line. The 340 and the 350 are around 37'6". Yes, this includes the swim platform, thats why they call it a 340/350 not a 370. Yes, Searay and others cheat on the model number sometimes but not this time.
What's this whole naval architect thing? The Tiara website says this:
L.O.A. without Standard Pulpit: 32'7" - 9.93 meters
L.O.A. with Standard Pulpit: 35'1" - 10.69 meters
If Tiara measures LOA at the water line then why does the length change when you include the pulpit? Tiara measures their boats just like everyone else.
Well I don't want to get into semantics, so lets just say that the 3200 doesn't have a cabin under the helm like most express cruisers.
SBW you know that the 3200 is a great boat as it stands, it's just different and hard to compare with an express cruiser.
I'll chime in on the Tiara versus Sea Ray versus (insert brand name here).
I have never seen a Tiara in person only in the magazines and on the net. That's because I have only been boating for seven years and only on our inland lake and also because there are no Tiara dealers in Charlotte that I am aware of. But here is my impression of Tiaras. They are an extremely well built boat but kind of "stodgy" styling wise. Maybe "classic" would be a better description but they certainly aren't leading edge styling wise. Overall they are priced higher than most other "mass produced" boats like Sea Rays or Regals. In the end, choosing a Tiara is a personal choice. The quality end of the boat and it's apparent sea worthiness appeal to me. The styling does not but then I feel the same about Regals with their odd angled radar arches and weird looking windows.
But we are all boaters on this board and we all have different tastes and reasons for buying what we do even if we stay within the Sea Ray line up. I respect everyone else's choice in that regard as long as we are just "discussing" the differences and not bashing or criticizing someone for their choice. But since the overwhelming majority of us are Sea Ray owners (this is a Sea Ray board after all) we tend to be more passionate about our Sea Rays than we are about other brands. We will also tend to chastise Sea Ray more for a new model we don't like for the very same reason. Those of us from the old SRO board that remember the huge posting that ensued when Sea Ray announced the 290 know exactly what I mean. There were not too many nice things said about that boat when it first came out but it still with us and many people do like it and have purchased it. At the same time it's intended replacement, the 280DA, is still here too so obviously folks like both style of boats despite the fact they are basically the same LOA. The same can be said about the 240 Sundeck and the 260 Sundeck which are identical in length as well. Both boats are still around. Obviously there are many who don't like the new 350 Sundancer as they have stated in this posting whether that be because of styling, price, weight or whatever. And since the current 340 is a very popular boat it is only natural to not like the 350 if one does not feel it is an improvement over the existing 340DA. In the end though the sales figures will tell the truth about whether the buying public likes this boat or not. I am betting that the 350 will be a big hit. If I am wrong then maybe there is a possibility the 340DA may not go away.
I have never seen a Tiara in person only in the magazines and on the net. That's because I have only been boating for seven years and only on our inland lake and also because there are no Tiara dealers in Charlotte that I am aware of. But here is my impression of Tiaras. They are an extremely well built boat but kind of "stodgy" styling wise. Maybe "classic" would be a better description but they certainly aren't leading edge styling wise. Overall they are priced higher than most other "mass produced" boats like Sea Rays or Regals. In the end, choosing a Tiara is a personal choice. The quality end of the boat and it's apparent sea worthiness appeal to me. The styling does not but then I feel the same about Regals with their odd angled radar arches and weird looking windows.
But we are all boaters on this board and we all have different tastes and reasons for buying what we do even if we stay within the Sea Ray line up. I respect everyone else's choice in that regard as long as we are just "discussing" the differences and not bashing or criticizing someone for their choice. But since the overwhelming majority of us are Sea Ray owners (this is a Sea Ray board after all) we tend to be more passionate about our Sea Rays than we are about other brands. We will also tend to chastise Sea Ray more for a new model we don't like for the very same reason. Those of us from the old SRO board that remember the huge posting that ensued when Sea Ray announced the 290 know exactly what I mean. There were not too many nice things said about that boat when it first came out but it still with us and many people do like it and have purchased it. At the same time it's intended replacement, the 280DA, is still here too so obviously folks like both style of boats despite the fact they are basically the same LOA. The same can be said about the 240 Sundeck and the 260 Sundeck which are identical in length as well. Both boats are still around. Obviously there are many who don't like the new 350 Sundancer as they have stated in this posting whether that be because of styling, price, weight or whatever. And since the current 340 is a very popular boat it is only natural to not like the 350 if one does not feel it is an improvement over the existing 340DA. In the end though the sales figures will tell the truth about whether the buying public likes this boat or not. I am betting that the 350 will be a big hit. If I am wrong then maybe there is a possibility the 340DA may not go away.
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The same argument ensued over the introduction of the new 290DA. Many 280DA owners reacted with disdain, and posted their disappointment/anger in long drawn out threads over the many changes and what THEY felt were shortcommings. So much so that some even called or wrote to SeaRay voicing their opinions. Changed nothing. The new styles are here and they are here to stay. Like them or don't.
As for SBW1, he seems to me to be a very knowledgable boater who was a former SeaRay owner. He knows both boats very well and from time to time points out the differences in construction, handling dealer services, etc. I never felt he was pushing the Tiara brand nor do I think he compares the two unfairly.
As for SBW1, he seems to me to be a very knowledgable boater who was a former SeaRay owner. He knows both boats very well and from time to time points out the differences in construction, handling dealer services, etc. I never felt he was pushing the Tiara brand nor do I think he compares the two unfairly.
jrcinnh
New Member
The boat makers, like car makers have had this dilemma for years. If you change too fast then people balk at the style, too slow and you look dated. What features are trends and which are fads, its hard to tell until a few years later.
I'm very curious about the 350 because I chose not to wait for it. Am I going to regret that decision, only time will tell? I owned two previous Searays, it was a tough decision to buy another brand.
As a fellow former Searayer, I hope SBW and people like us can continue to point out some of the places where competitive boats made different tradeoffs. If we get carried away set us straight.
Besides it's still winter up here and I'm going a little crazy...
I'm very curious about the 350 because I chose not to wait for it. Am I going to regret that decision, only time will tell? I owned two previous Searays, it was a tough decision to buy another brand.
As a fellow former Searayer, I hope SBW and people like us can continue to point out some of the places where competitive boats made different tradeoffs. If we get carried away set us straight.
Besides it's still winter up here and I'm going a little crazy...
sbw1
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First, the easy part. Navel archietects measure a boat at the water line (LWL). The 3200 is a 32 foot boat because its water line is little north of 32 feet. The builder's web site is actually wrong when it adds the pulpit and platform and calls everything LOA. Regardless of the terminology, I was struck by two things about the the new 35. It is very similar to a 3200 in almost every way except for the higly stylized shape of the hull which has been SRs trade mark in recent years. The space that is lost to an aft cabin is more than made up in the helm which is really another room on the 3200. Other than that, the layouts are very similar. It looks to me like SR looked at the 3200 and made a SR copy. I'm not suggesting this is a bad thing as the 32 is Tiara's largest selling boat as was the 3100 before it. Boats in this size range, when done right are comfortable, easy to find slips for, clean, you name it. They definitely serve a need for couples or small families. SR is smart to offer a similar model.
We see lots of both brands because SR is a volume dealer and Tiara's factory is twenty minutes from where we live. Discounts on Tiaras are typically around 12% whereas SRs are known to sell for as much as 30% off. I was able to do that on my last SR. My surprise is SR appears to have launched a new boat that lists for as much or more than a Tiara and reportedly sold one at a boat show without the traditional pricing. All I was attempting to say in the post, is that's unusual. Once buyers are into a new price point, new options become available. Semantics aside, the Open series is an express cruiser. If you are looking for an express, you should look at a Tiara because the 35 is the same price and possibly more expensive.
This is a discussion board, right? I've bought a lot of GM cars coming from Michigan. I've discovered that Acuras and Audis are more fun and have fewer problems than the Olds I used to drive. It was considered heresy to switch from the Big Three when I made the change in 1986. All I'm saying is shop around. You may learn something by looking at things in a different way. Competition improves everyone's brand.
We see lots of both brands because SR is a volume dealer and Tiara's factory is twenty minutes from where we live. Discounts on Tiaras are typically around 12% whereas SRs are known to sell for as much as 30% off. I was able to do that on my last SR. My surprise is SR appears to have launched a new boat that lists for as much or more than a Tiara and reportedly sold one at a boat show without the traditional pricing. All I was attempting to say in the post, is that's unusual. Once buyers are into a new price point, new options become available. Semantics aside, the Open series is an express cruiser. If you are looking for an express, you should look at a Tiara because the 35 is the same price and possibly more expensive.
This is a discussion board, right? I've bought a lot of GM cars coming from Michigan. I've discovered that Acuras and Audis are more fun and have fewer problems than the Olds I used to drive. It was considered heresy to switch from the Big Three when I made the change in 1986. All I'm saying is shop around. You may learn something by looking at things in a different way. Competition improves everyone's brand.
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Robski97
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JG,
Once the horse is out of the barn u cant bring it back in. Searay has made changes after customer backlash. IT is limited though by cost. Sadly since the saturn chic fired all the age old designers all the old mistakes will be made again and again. I have some 35 pics to post.... More vomit material
Rob
Once the horse is out of the barn u cant bring it back in. Searay has made changes after customer backlash. IT is limited though by cost. Sadly since the saturn chic fired all the age old designers all the old mistakes will be made again and again. I have some 35 pics to post.... More vomit material
Rob
Bottom Line
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I did not mean to offend any Tiara owners like yourself or SBW1 so if "Classic" works for you Dan that's fine with me too.:thumbsup:
