Worry about the attacks in Mumbai?

[billandamy]

Now those Somalian freaks run around the Indian Ocean pirating every ship the can catch.

And it will be up to us to stop them, according to the majority. Why should any other country do that? The world is used to us doing it, so...

Maybe if we step down, perhaps others will take the slack up? Learn to protect their own interests instead of relying on us? Maybe, finally when we say we have had enough of getting OUR people killed, OUR money spent on military instead of infrastructure, OUR image as the world police and imperialist...



Just random thoughts.

 

[Turtlesboat]

I guess we could just wait until they blow up one of our ships before we act.

 

[sbw1]

And it will be up to us to stop them, according to the majority. Why should any other country do that? The world is used to us doing it, so...

Maybe if we step down, perhaps others will take the slack up? Learn to protect their own interests instead of relying on us? Maybe, finally when we say we have had enough of getting OUR people killed, OUR money spent on military instead of infrastructure, OUR image as the world police and imperialist...Just random thoughts.

Maybe you should read up on the history of our country starting with its founding. We had no navy and the pirates off the coast of Africa stole us blind when America was newly formed. The Europeans simply paid off the pirates so commerce could continue. We did that as well until it became too expensive for a young nation to bear. Then we built ships and defended our interests and the European were shamed into joining the fight. The issue was largely resolved as a result of those efforts for many years.

 

[billandamy]

I guess we could just wait until they blow up one of our ships before we act.

I have no problem with supporting our ships with Navy, and we should. Protect our interests.

However, going into Somalia is not something I support.

 

[billandamy]

Maybe you should read up on the history of our country starting with its founding. We had no navy and the pirates off the coast of Africa stole us blind when America was newly formed. The Europeans simply paid off the pirates so commerce could continue. We did that as well until it became too expensive for a young nation to bear. Then we built ships and defended our interests and the European were shamed into joining the fight. The issue was largely resolved as a result of those efforts for many years.

Let's just stick to the current time. 200 years ago is no logical benchmark.

 

[hack4alivin]

Let's just stick to the current time. 200 years ago is no logical benchmark.

What is that saying about history and “doomed to repeat”?

BTW you are right about the “Holding Tank” being a fun place to hang out!:thumbsup:

 

[comsnark]

Maybe you should read up on the history of our country starting with its founding. We had no navy and the pirates off the coast of Africa stole us blind when America was newly formed. The Europeans simply paid off the pirates so commerce could continue. We did that as well until it became too expensive for a young nation to bear. Then we built ships and defended our interests and the European were shamed into joining the fight. The issue was largely resolved as a result of those efforts for many years.

I suspect the Napoleonic wars had something to do with the end of piracy as well.

- - - - - -

As for Mumbai. . . . are you sure it was "Westerners" that were the target? Or "India"? India is about as much an American ally as China.

 

[Turtlesboat]

I have no problem with supporting our ships with Navy, and we should. Protect our interests.

However, going into Somalia is not something I support.

How expensive would that be, patrolling an entire ocean half way around the world all because a bunch of pirates have a safe refuge in a small third world country. If other countries don't contribute to the peace and stability in their area, then we send them the bill.

 

[tmhudson2]

We stayed out of the African continent for the better part of two centuries, until we invaded North Africa with the Brits and ANZACS in WW2 to drive out the Axis. Then we used N. Africa as a base from which to attack the Germans and Italians and launch the invasions of Sicily, Italy and S. France. Other than that we pretty much left the continent to be policed (and some would say exploited) by its former European colonial powers. Sometimes this worked, and sometimes it didn't. Most African countries are a little better off than they were prior to colonialism, but black-on-black slavery still exists there, and corrupt rulers siphon the wealth to their Swiss accounts.

We may be wise to leave the relief efforts to the U.N., but the U.N. doesn't have the means to remove the economic incentive from Somolian-Islamist piracy. The U.N. may however pass a resolution that clarifies the right of navies to deal with the pirates as they should be dealth with; at present, there is little "controlling legal authority" for anyone to do much to solve that problem.

 

[billandamy]

What is that saying about history and “doomed to repeat”?

BTW you are right about the “Holding Tank” being a fun place to hang out!:thumbsup:

Doomed to repeat what?

My feeling is simple. For years now, the world has relied on the US being the police and using us as the worlds military. When there is a problem, it is just understood we would be more than happy to invade/go to war for just causes. And some of them ARE just causes.

But we have put ourselves in a position where no one else really has to worry about fighting the "bad guys". So we did two things: 1. We are always expected to so this and 2. other countries have put that money they would have spent into their own infrastructures to pass us by.

Is it any wonder that in this way we have 1. created enemies that would go after other countries and 2. spent more on military causes than almost any other facet of our country?

So what do we do now? Continue going down this road forever? Because the more we police, the more enemies we create, the more we need to police, the more the rest of the world expects and relies on us to do so...cycles we cant ever break.

OR

Maybe we decide enough is enough, protect OUR own interests (Turtle tones pirating is a good example-maybe Navy now follows along our ships), bring most miltary home, and start letting other countries pull their weight.

It cant be both.

 

[chuck1]

What is that Gary Says:huh:

Poke, Poke

Nuke em all and let god sort them out.:huh:

 

[billandamy]

How expensive would that be, patrolling an entire ocean half way around the world all because a bunch of pirates have a safe refuge in a small third world country. If other countries don't contribute to the peace and stability in their area, then we send them the bill.

It's gotta be cheaper than the war in Iraq, Afganistan, having military bases on foreign soil...

How about not sending a bill, but having them pull their weight to protect their interests too?

 

[hack4alivin]

Here’s an idea, let’s arm Israel to the teeth and tell them we are pulling out, everything, and everywhere. We are going back to our country and not going to interfere. You all over there take care of your own business. Now that I would like to watch.

 

[billandamy]

What is that saying about history and “doomed to repeat”?

BTW you are right about the “Holding Tank” being a fun place to hang out!:thumbsup:

:lol: And yes, the HT is my favorite place here. As much as I like to argue/debate/make tomfoolery, it suits me well.

Just know this, I can disagree with any of you on any level, and go head to head on topics like this, but it doesnt make a difference how I feel about ya. I dont think there too many here I wouldnt go for a beer with or have over for my pool parties.

Heck, some of my best friends are the ones I go head to head with about certain subjects. Ill be arguing with Erik and Jerry at my house tomorrow night about something :smt001

 

[Turtlesboat]

Last night I watched a special on Game Theory and world event predictions. It seemed that the attacking country overwhelming wins the battle while the country that chooses to do nothing looses the most, much more than a country that chooses to fight back and looses.

 

[billandamy]

Here’s an idea, let’s arm Israel to the teeth and tell them we are pulling out, everything, and everywhere. We are going back to our country and not going to interfere. You all over there take care of your own business. Now that I would like to watch.

Ya know what...I hate to think of the deaths that would involve, but it MAY be the only thing left to do. Thats a tough one you gave me there. Ya had to pick the worst case scenario!!! :smt100

 

[billandamy]

Last night I watched a special on Game Theory and world event predictions. It seemed that the attacking country overwhelming wins the battle while the country that chooses to do nothing looses the most, much more than a country that chooses to fight back and looses.

I play RISK about once a week. That game is based on that theory. We play on a laptop with projector on a screen out in my cabana. Ill take a pic, think thats what we are doing tomorrow night.

 

[hack4alivin]

:lol: And yes, the HT is my favorite place here. As much as I like to argue/debate/make tomfoolery, it suits me well.

Just know this, I can disagree with any of you on any level, and go head to head on topics like this, but it doesnt make a difference how I feel about ya. I dont think there too many here I wouldnt go for a beer with or have over for my pool parties.

Heck, some of my best friends are the ones I go head to head with about certain subjects. Ill be arguing with Erik and Jerry at my house tomorrow night about something :smt001

That is what I meant; it would be cool to argue the case over a beer. I sure they would be no decision by the end of the night, but it would be fun!:thumbsup:

 

[wish2fish]

:lol: ...........I dont think there too many here I wouldnt go for a beer with or have over for my pool parties.
.................

what am I missing? A bunch of guys sitting around in their speedos?:huh:

 

[hack4alivin]

what am I missing? A bunch of guys sitting around in their speedos?:huh:

Oh thanks for that image....