Why are SR's so much higher priced than Bayliners?

[boatman37]

well i have always owned American made cars but had driven a few hondas, toyotas, etc. my son bought a 2006 BMW 325xi with 80,000 miles and it is the best riding vehicle i have ever been in, and i have been in some nice cars, and many were brand new. but there is a price for that engineering

 

[Billfletcher]

We previously owned a Sea Ray. Loved it, and it was a difficult decision to sell.

We purchased a Beneteau, new from the factory, that was approximately 30 percent cheaper than a similar sized SR. Why, we liked the layout of the boat and other features. Price was not the major factor. I know the fit and finish, engine systems etc are superior on the SR, compared to my boat. IE, they are two differrent animals, with different price points and features.

It's a personal decision, so buy you want. Either way, These guys are correct in their analysis of the situation.

 

[FootballFan]

My last two boats have been SR's.

Never owned, or even been on a Bayliner.

Over the years I have spent a week or more at a time on a lot of different boats doing bare boat charters. Meridian, Tiarra, Carver, Cruisers, Sea Ray, Silverton, Duffy, and probably some others that are not coming to mind. This wasn't walking on the boat at a boat show, but 7-9 days cruising each trip.

Before we bought our 340DA - I had no doubt that in the size range we were looking at - it would be a SeaRay. The experience with that boat was such that when we went to the next boat - it would be a Sea Ray. After having 2 Sea Ray's I still feel just as strong about the brand.

Not going to pick apart the other brands. For some people they are the perfect fit for their boating requirements. That's why there are Ford's and Chevy's, Lincolns and Cadillacs, Harleys and Honda's.

Spend a week living on a boat - you start to appreciate what went into the design and construction. It's not about cleats and window shades.

If the Bayliner meets your needs for functionality, performance, and dollars - then buy the Bayliner.

Mark

 

[kiloil]

I didn't take the OP questions as being negative in any way. He just wants technical proof that state XYZ. What harm is it. Email customer service at Brunswick and they will tell you.

 

[SCORPIO]

Cadillac and Chevy are both GM cars built using similar common parts sourced from suppliers in buld, ie wheels, tires, switches, glass etc. A Chevy Cruise is a nice midsize car, but it doesn't cost as much as a Cadillac CTX, also a midsize car. Why? Well when you answer that question you will have the answer to your SR vs BL question also.

 

[katricol]

Richard, I like your response, lol. I get my answer when someone walks down the dock and looks at my 16 year old boat and thinks its 6 years old. My son owned a bayliner and we had a lot of fun on it towing skiers and wakeboards. Nobody has ever mistaken his boat by 10 years.

 

[Robf]

Let me just say that I first owned two Maxum boats, then a Bayliner, next Crownline, Rinker, Silverton, and then the last two boats have been Sea Rays. When I owned Rinkers, Maxums, and Bayliner, I assumed the people telling me how great Sea Ray was were full of crap and trying to justify what they paid for the boat. After owning two Sea Rays and the experience of all the other models I have owned, I can honestly say that the Sea Rays are the best of the ones I have owned. (Crownline and Silverton were close) This opinion was also shared by any surveyor I have talked to. The fit and finish is better, the hardware is more substantial, the labeling of wiring, the quality of components used, the quality of carpets and cabinetry..the list goes on and on. With that being said, I enjoyed my Bayliner when I owned it. It fit my needs at the time. I say all this to say that a Bayliner can meet your needs, but it is not the same quality of boat as a Sea Ray. Test drive both in some moderate seas and decide!
Rob

 

[h_gerry]

El Capitan, while I am not able to give you the XYZ differences you are asking for, I can say, as others have said, that there is a noticeable difference between Bayliners and Sea Rays. In a prior life, I worked in the marine industry selling supplies and Formula boats for a short time. I have gone to and worked at many boat shows as well. While at the shows I poked around as many boats as I could, opening every hatch and every deck plate I could put my hands on. I have ridden in many different boats as well with friends and family. My family has owned a Renken, been partners in an older Chris Craft and I have owned a Wellcraft and two Sea Rays.

The differences that exist between B and SR can be found in places that you can see and quite a lot of places that you can't see. For instance, the insides of hatches and in the stringer system under the floor. I have not owned a Bayliner, but have poked around in quite a few. You can lift hatches in the floor or look under the dash, or under molded bow seats and see exposed, unfinished rough fiberglass. On SR's you would see finished smooth fiberglass or gel coated surfaces. I have walked around inside of Bayliners (new boats at the boat shows) and felt the floor flex under my feet. SR's don't do that. Those differences are what add to the labor costs and the time it takes to build a SR vs a B. These differences also translate into the ride quality you get In Each of the boats. Crossing wakes in a B can produce a sound like you are in a hollow soda can with creaks and echos and rattles. You don't get that in a SR. As others have said, take a ride in each boat in a moderate sea and you should be able to "feel" the differences between them.

 

[FootballFan]

Maybe the reason that Bayliners are less expensive - they don't hold their value as well...

I just cannot leave this thread alone ...

Granted, you can overpay for any brand of boat...

End of the day - the market drives pricing. How many people are looking for a 10 year old non-Sea Ray vs how many people are looking for Sea Ray boats.

Mark

 

[Black Valkyrie]

definitely lower build quality on the Bayliner. we looked at Bayliner and were impressed by the styling but upon closer examination discovered the build quality to be sub standard.

 

[Fly'n Family]

For example, I can buy a mid 90's 22ft-23ft sea ray bowrider with 5.0, trailer, in good condition in the $10k range or so. For the exact same size, motor, trailer etc Bayliner I can buy a year 2005/06.

Interesting to see what the responses would be in a bayliner forum.

Why do you think a SR 10 yrs older than the Bayliner you reference commands the same price in the market? Shouldn't be too difficult to connect the dots.

I'm on the only marina at our lake, one that has a 10 year waiting list for a slip. There is not one Bayliner in a slip. The only Bayliners at the marina are rentals. The owner buys them because they're cheap and renters could give two ****s other than getting on the water. He makes a ton off them, and considers them as a disposable product with a short shelf life.

I would suggest you trial a SR and a what you think in your mind is a "comparable" Bayliner. If you can't see the difference, then buy the lessor of the two - and enjoy owning a Bayliner.

 

[Steve195]

El Capitan-
You say you are looking for a 21ish foot bowrider around the $10k price point. I think we've established that Sea Ray's are higher priced than Bayliners, new and used. We can discuss the merits of that pricing, but that is reality in the market. However, at the price and vintage that you are looking for, I think you should be LESS worried about brand, and more worried about condition. I don't care how great a Sea Ray is, if it's been abused or poorly maintained for a decade or more, I'd much rather have a Bayliner that was well cared for during all those years. Pick the boat that has the features you want, is in the condition you want, and at the price point you're willing to pay. You'll have to decide what offers the most value. If having a boat that is known as a premier brand is important to you, that will be part of your value equation. If you don't care about the brand name, that won't even factor into your buying decision.

 

[skibum]

I've spent a good bit of time on quite a few Bayliners in my life. Several of my friends currently own them, or have owned them in the past. They are decent boats that you can get lots of enjoyment out of. I could own one.

I'm not going to attempt to answer your original question. You can answer that yourself using your own eyes and hands. Simply go to a dealer that sells used boats and compare a few of similar year and type (i.e. 2- 2006 22' bow riders, or 2 2003 28' cruisers) for yourself. Knock on the surfaces, closely examine the hardware used, carefully examine similar areas of each boat (cabinetry, wiring, upholstery, etc..). Jump back and forth between the two. They are different. Take a ride on each, check a few out, and then come back here with your honest opinion. Have the dealer take you for a sea trial on a boat from each brand. Listen to the noise level, the sounds the boat makes, the overall feel. Watch the fixtures and seams between parts as you cruise along. They are different. Go figure it out. It's not difficult.

 

[skibum]

El Capitan-
... I think you should be LESS worried about brand, and more worried about condition. I don't care how great a Sea Ray is, if it's been abused or poorly maintained for a decade or more, I'd much rather have a Bayliner that was well cared for during all those years. Pick the boat that has the features you want, is in the condition you want, and at the price point you're willing to pay. ...

Excellent advice. I agree 100%.

 

[Mike Blake]

At the factory, now closed in Knoxville, where both brands were built in the same building you could see the hull was twice as thick on a SR compared to the BL...

MM

I posted the photos in a thread somewhere...

I went thru that tour before they closed. There was a big difference in the hull thickness.

 

[Jacob]

We had a 4788 Bayliner for 10 years; great creature comforts and value for money, but a light boat. Then we got our 480 DB; it was 1 foot longer and 6 tons heavier. In a big sea there was simply no comparison in stability. But the SeaRay used double the fuel on plane.

 

[Leardriver]

I've had several of both, and there is no comparison. The SR weighs about 30% more, and after bashing through some big waves, you feel like you are in a bank vault, and the BL feels like you are in a paper cup.
If you want the sleeper value out there that IMHO is 90% of a SR, get a Four Winns. That is a solid well built boat at a lesser price.

 

[El Capitan]

Thank you for all the opinions and responses. Some of you did understand my OP was not asking which boat is better -as most of you have mistakingly interpreted. I tried to be as explicit as possible in seeking specific evidence of where (thus why) there is such price disparity between two very similar models built by the same parent company.

The car analogies are irrelevant and miss my point. Again, I know better than to ask which boat is better on a SR forum.

No one has been able to demonstrate where the cost differences are for the manufacturer. At least not to the extent of thousands of dollars in similar sized models.

most missed the distinction between COST and PRICE. I'm fully aware that pricing is a function of cost plus xyz. But COST is more science than art. And this is what I was hoping someone might have had data point on vs brand loyalty and opinions. Of course if you purchased a SR and that's your boat now it rides the best of all your past boats. And if/when you buy a different brand that will be your preferred boat then. Human nature.

At at this point I think it's safe to say there is no data publicly available to the unbiased consumer to determine the cost differential between two similar Brunswick manufactured boats to justify the price disparity.

As I consider new vs old one key criteria is towards manufacturers that offer lifetime structural hull warranty.

Thanks to all, this has been quite an enlightening read.

 

[RichardS]

A buddy of mine owned a 4788 and it was a really nice "condo on the water". Almost all the comforts of home and in fact during the summer he was a full-time "liveaboard" and really enjoyed it......BUT......

He NEVER left the dock. Not EVER. He told me he no way, no how was going to take that boat out into blue water through the AC Inlet. He had done it one time, got caught in a storm, and scared the life out of his family getting back to the marina. And this guy is an experienced boater, but had fallen victim to "two-foot-itus" and was able to buy a MUCH bigger boat by going to the Bayliner. He got what seemed like an awesome deal when he bought it, and STILL lost a lot of money when he sold it three years later to buy a smaller SR that he could take out of the slip if the mood struck him. But you know he still missed the room and ability to "spread out" from time to time? So I guess it's a matter of knowing what you want to do.....if you're on a lake and the waters are always glass-like, maybe the BL is indeed the better value! If you want a condo on the water you won't take out of the slip, I suppose it is the way to go! But if you want to go BOATING, it really pays to spend the extra dough and have that piece of mind, knowing you have a well-engineered and designed,and well executed machine under you.

When I owned my 42 foot Carver, (another condo on the water), I knew I better NEVER lose sight of the shoreline when traveling to Cape May from AC and back on the ocean side. My "dream boat" at the time was a Viking that could take me far off-shore with no worries other than my own skill. Dreams change and I'm happy to have a 28 foot bowrider behind a house I use as a house instead of a boat I use as a house as I did the Carver.

Again, it's all about what you want to do with your boat and how much actual USE you'll get out of the boat you buy. If you're a 10 hour per season guy, the BL may be right for you! If you love to be out on the water and plan on a long season really putting your boat "to the test" for reliability and longevity, spend the money upfront to save it later and buy the Sea Ray.

 

[Tonka Boater]

No one has been able to demonstrate where the cost differences are for the manufacturer. At least not to the extent of thousands of dollars in similar sized models.

most missed the distinction between COST and PRICE. I'm fully aware that pricing is a function of cost plus xyz. But COST is more science than art. And this is what I was hoping someone might have had data point on vs brand loyalty and opinions.

The exact question you're asking can't be answered by anyone here. That's something the executives at Sea Ray determine. Like any other company, Sea Ray has a specific profit margin they are targeting and this margin is determined not only by the hard costs that go into each boat but it also factors in marketing, R&D, staff, overhead, etc. It's a complex model that is impossible for us to deconstruct. I don't know their pricing model but I guarantee they don't look at each boat set an arbitrary price with random profit margins.

Although they're under the same corporate parent, SR and B each operate as a separate business and thus determine their own pricing.

The only answers we can give are the ones we did give you...better quality, etc. Cobalt and Sea Ray source many components from the same vendors -- why are Cobalt's generally more expensive? Who knows? That's a model that only Cobalt knows.