Why are SR's so much higher priced than Bayliners?

[El Capitan]

I've owned sea rays but not a Bayliners. Both are owned by Brunswick so given some of the overlap in target markets with some of their product lineups why are SR's so pricey in comparison?

ive read other blogs in my research but no one can justify the incremental costs of "better hardware" or "better gelcoat" etc. besides the bulk of the cost in boats that are similar is found in production/manufacturing costs not so much in materials.

I mean how much more chop strand or woven roving can a 21ft bowrider have over another built by same parent company?

Im starting to believe this is more a function of product/marketing segmentation than it is about quality.

Im all ears.

 

[Strecker25]

My experience on them both (and this is purely 'feel') is that the materials, especially the interiors, are superior. Density of the seat foam, thickness of the vinyl, dash materials and switches, etc. The other thing I always notice (more on older boats than new) is the heavy duty hardware such as cleats and bow rails on the SR's vs the bayliners. The rear cleats on our 98 290 are far superior to our old dock neighbors 302 bayliner of much newer generation. Ours are quite large stainless cleats that are through bolted with some pretty hefty bolts. His were much smaller. I feel like those little things likely add up to a much higher price product.

That being said, the marketing sure helps

 

[rcknecht]

Why does a Lexis cost more than a Toyota??? Same reason a Sea Ray cost more than a Bayliner...

 

[Woody]

Look at the thickness of the hull sides on comparable Sea Ray models and Bayliner models and you will have your answer. Sea Rays are overbuilt by comparison, Bayliner takes the minimalist approach. Add to that, the fit and finish, and it is no wonder Sea Ray are more expensive....and you know what? It's worth the extra expense.

You ready to buy the new 340 equivalent at 450-500K?:grin:

 

[Tonka Boater]

Why does a Lexis cost more than a Toyota??? Same reason a Sea Ray cost more than a Bayliner...

I was going to say something similar -- why do BMW and Mercedes cost more than Honda's -- but your's is a perfect example. Bayliner's, like Toyota's, are designed and engineered to meet a specific market and price point. I currently own a new BMW and I've owned Honda's in the past. Honda makes a fine vehicle but it's no BMW.

Everything the others have said is all correct too. I will add that hull design and the overall engineering is superior with Sea Ray. Styling is subjective but I would argue that Sea Ray wins in this area.

 

[MonacoMike]

At the factory, now closed in Knoxville, where both brands were built in the same building you could see the hull was twice as thick on a SR compared to the BL...

MM

I posted the photos in a thread somewhere...

 

[El Capitan]

I appreciate the responses but most are opinions. The Toyota vs Lexus is a perfect example that underscores my point which is there really isnt much difference. Lexus uses different badging, different trim gizmos, some more options but as far as true costs that impact the pricing dollar for dollar there is little justification for the price premium besides branding and marketing.

Hull thickness? show me the measurements. I have compared the dry weight of a couple models and they are almost identical except for variances in power plants.

Cleats? what can be the real cost difference in a SS cleat and a basic aluminum? $10, $50? $100 ? x 6 = $600. Im seeing multiples of thousands of dollars in price difference.

Sorry but noone has yet point to evidence of where the added costs are, just opinions, not that those aren't valid in a SR forum.

Im looking for specific costs i.e. SR uses xyz more fiberglass, gelcoat layers for SR are 8 vs bayliner 4, SR uses 2in thick marine grade ply vs 1in thick regular pine for bulkheads, etc.

There just is no evidence to substantiate such a gap in costs. So far. Someone might have it.

 

[Medin]

Why does BMW cost more than a Skoda? Quality and brand!

 

[El Capitan]

There is a ton of engineering differences, technology differences, performance differences, manufacturing differences, and they are different companies with products that are completely dissimilar. Not so between Bayliner and SR.

Next.

 

[CliffA]

I appreciate the responses but most are opinions. The Toyota vs Lexus is a perfect example that underscores my point which is there really isnt much difference. Lexus uses different badging, different trim gizmos, some more options but as far as true costs that impact the pricing dollar for dollar there is little justification for the price premium besides branding and marketing.

Hull thickness? show me the measurements. I have compared the dry weight of a couple models and they are almost identical except for variances in power plants.

Cleats? what can be the real cost difference in a SS cleat and a basic aluminum? $10, $50? $100 ? x 6 = $600. Im seeing multiples of thousands of dollars in price difference.

Sorry but noone has yet point to evidence of where the added costs are, just opinions, not that those aren't valid in a SR forum.

Im looking for specific costs i.e. SR uses xyz more fiberglass, gelcoat layers for SR are 8 vs bayliner 4, SR uses 2in thick marine grade ply vs 1in thick regular pine for bulkheads, etc.

There just is no evidence to substantiate such a gap in costs. So far. Someone might have it.

sounds like you have made up your mind and we will not change it.....spend some time on both boats....if that doesn't convince you that SR is superior then go get yourself a Bayliner and have fun.....

look at boats that are 10 - 20 years old....you'll find many older SR's still in good shape but I bet not so many BL's in comparable condition...

cliff

 

[HUMPH]

Sea Ray does have a more robust hull, this is not an opinion. The finishes are better, the boat is better. Lexus IS more than a stylish Honda. There is a lot of advanced engineering, equipment and upgraded materials in a Lexus. If you need to question what people are offering you, just buy a Bayliner and be done with it.

 

[JimT]

There is a ton of engineering differences, technology differences, performance differences, manufacturing differences, and they are different companies with products that are completely dissimilar. Not so between Bayliner and SR.

Next.

You asked a question and got answers you don't seem to like. If you feel so strongly about the quality of Bayliners then you should buy one.

 

[skolbe]

I look back to my 2000 - 260 Sundancer versus my old dock neighbors 2855 Bayliner. The boats had a similar MSRP. 58k for the 2855 versus 61k for the 260. The level of quality on my 260 versus the 2855 in my mind was well worth the smaller space for the same price. Today the NADA Guide values the 260 at 21k versus 17k for the 2855. Does any of it matter. Only to the person buying it. The level of service from the Sea Ray dealer was substantially better than the Bayliner dealer. What matters to you may not matter to me. Buy what you want and don't feel you need to justify a thing or put anyone else's decision down.

 

[PMC]

Wbat models are you A/B comparing? I think with a real test case you'll get some more concrete evidence that you get what you pay for.

 

[El Capitan]

I realize Im on a SR forum. Im not trying to justify one brand over the other. The reason for my inquiry is because Im considering a 21ft +/- bowrider and have noticed as I look at sea rays and bayliners because there's just so many out in the used market that are similar in size and features, that the pricing is way disparate.

For example, I can buy a mid 90's 22ft-23ft sea ray bowrider with 5.0, trailer, in good condition in the $10k range or so. For the exact same size, motor, trailer etc Bayliner I can buy a year 2005/06.

Both boats will do the same water sports, will go about as fast given same power, accommodate same number of passengers, they weigh about the same 3000lbs +/-.

So where are those extra dollars coming from really? Its just not in the materials i.e. fiberglass, gelcoat, cleats, vinyl, etc.

The price difference is shocking to me as I shop. I prefer the SR for pure resale purposes. So why is there such a perception gap? I am suspecting it is with the older model 1980' early 90's Bayliner builds with exposed balsa core that rotted but SR did the same.

I think there is a very clever perception game by SR marketing which has translated to valuations. But for an in-the-water experience, unless you're doing heavy offshore in inclement weather in an open fisherman style boat, I doubt the on the water differences merit the large price difference.

Interesting to see what the responses would be in a bayliner forum.

 

[Tonka Boater]

The price difference is shocking to me as I shop. I prefer the SR for pure resale purposes. So why is there such a perception gap? I am suspecting it is with the older model 1980' early 90's Bayliner builds with exposed balsa core that rotted but SR did the same.

I think there is a very clever perception game by SR marketing which has translated to valuations. But for an in-the-water experience, unless you're doing heavy offshore in inclement weather in an open fisherman style boat, I doubt the on the water differences merit the large price difference.

You need to drive both boats and make up your mind. The question you're really asking is, "Why aren't all boats priced similarly in the same size range?"

I currently have 1997 Cobalt 232 and a good friend of mine has a 2004 22' Larson. Similar boats in size but the difference in quality, sea keeping, comfort, everything...is waaaay different. My Cobalt is a Cadillac on the water whereas his is a 1990 Honda Civic. Yes, his Larson gets him on the water but after an afternoon on his boat I need to see my chiropractor because that boat handles so crappy and throws you around in the chop -- this is on an inland lake -- not the ocean. My boat is solid and handles like it's on rails and it cuts through the wind and chop with ease...not the case with his Larson.

It's the same with Bayliner vs. Sea Ray... you need to drive them both to know the difference. Is a Honda Pilot just as good as a BMW X5? Drive both and you decide. Sea Ray's are built solid and handle like no other boat in their class.

 

[Ididntdoit]

R&D costs money......where do you think the new "quiet ride" systems and ergonomic and safety improvements come from......sea ray has a whole facility and staff dedicated to PD&E they build prototypes and test systems and components - that costs $$$ - If none of those features are important to you.....buy a bayliner........as far as comparing the value of used boats and trying why there is such a difference......Don't - The market dictates the prices - as far as new boats go I can see your argument......some people are willing to pay for the R&D that makes sea ray a better boat.

 

[RichardS]

Guys, before I comment, let me say I have owned both brands (ok, my only Bayliner was a 175BR but that IS one of the world's biggest selling boats), and yes, I absolutely LOVE my 270 SLX, (now that it doesn't overheat every time I take it out), but to the OP, I just have to say:

Have you ever heard the saying "Don't ask a barber if you need a haircut?"

You are on a SEA RAY FORUM and you're asking which boat is better?? LOL! (Yes, I get you were asking why they are priced higher, but isn't the real question is are they actually better?)

What answer did you expect to get here? And if you ask the SAME question on the Bayliner forum, I wouldn't be a BIT surprised to hear a litany of rationalization as to why Bayliner is equal to if not better than Sea Ray. People love what they own, or at least feel they have to, having spent a lot of money to acquire it.

Please guys, I am NOT, (REPEAT-NOT!!) criticizing any of our fine members here, or making fun of anybody. But for crying out loud, does anyone think ANY member here is going to respond with Bayliner as a better product when a Sea Ray has cost them a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to get in their portfolio? We own expensive boats. And most of us (excluding those trust fund kids among us, you know who you are! LOL!) worked awfully hard to buy what we feel is the best boat for our money. You're not going to get anyone saying they wish they bought a Bayliner. Or anything else.

 

[Henry Boyd]

I realize Im on a SR forum. Im not trying to justify one brand over the other. The reason for my inquiry is because Im considering a 21ft +/- bowrider and have noticed as I look at sea rays and bayliners because there's just so many out in the used market that are similar in size and features, that the pricing is way disparate.

For example, I can buy a mid 90's 22ft-23ft sea ray bowrider with 5.0, trailer, in good condition in the $10k range or so. For the exact same size, motor, trailer etc Bayliner I can buy a year 2005/06.

Both boats will do the same water sports, will go about as fast given same power, accommodate same number of passengers, they weigh about the same 3000lbs +/-.

So where are those extra dollars coming from really? Its just not in the materials i.e. fiberglass, gelcoat, cleats, vinyl, etc.

The price difference is shocking to me as I shop. I prefer the SR for pure resale purposes. So why is there such a perception gap? I am suspecting it is with the older model 1980' early 90's Bayliner builds with exposed balsa core that rotted but SR did the same.

I think there is a very clever perception game by SR marketing which has translated to valuations. But for an in-the-water experience, unless you're doing heavy offshore in inclement weather in an open fisherman style boat, I doubt the on the water differences merit the large price difference.

Interesting to see what the responses would be in a bayliner forum.

I have no experience with Bayliner, so I can't comment on bit by bit comparison That said, look at what the market is saying to you, "a particular Sea Ray has the same asking/selling price as an equivalent Bayliner that is ten years newer". This isn't contrived MSRP pricing, but an opinion by the marketplace as to what one item is worth in lieu of the other when everything but age is held constant. Lets not forget the used boat marketplace can be pretty brutal on boat values, so the odds are this is pretty accurate. I also agree with what a lot of others have said in that if you can't see, or understand (I don't understand either, other than I know Sea Ray is a damn fine boat) the difference, then move on to a Bayliner.

Henry

 

[electricaldoctor]

When in doubt, ask Wayne about Baysinkers. :grin: