When are the seas too rough to take the boat out?

Four Suns said:
I could have sworn someone said earlier their 20 foot bow rider could handle 8 foot waves... Probably a Tiara.
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While Tiara does not build a 20 foot boat, the boats they do build are as comfortable or more comfortable than other comparably sized boats. My current boat is faster, dryer, stronger and more comfortable than any other boat I've owned and that includes several of the most popular brands such as Formula, Chris Craft, Boston Whaler and Sea Ray. Not considering lightening storms, the 32 will handle any sea condition Lake Michigan is likely to produce between April and October. It has seen some large seas with water breaking over the sea walls marking the entrance to Grand Haven Harbor. Not pleasant but you need to practice in these conditions to maintain seamanship skills. Sounds like your TE is kicking up Gary.
 
Where I boat wave lengths tend to be short. 2-3 footers sometimes chase boats under 30 off the lake. Just too much banging around and not comfortable. Rarely have I been able to stay on plane in anything over 5-6 foot. I'm talking breaking waves not rollers.
 
sbw1 said:
While Tiara does not build a 20 foot boat, the boats they do build are as comfortable or more comfortable than other comparably sized boats. My current boat is faster, dryer, stronger and more comfortable than any other boat I've owned and that includes several of the most popular brands such as Formula, Chris Craft, Boston Whaler and Sea Ray. Not considering lightening storms, the 32 will handle any sea condition Lake Michigan is likely to produce between April and October. It has seen some large seas with water breaking over the sea walls marking the entrance to Grand Haven Harbor. Not pleasant but you need to practice in these conditions to maintain seamanship skills. Sounds like your TE is kicking up Gary.
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I have to ask. What is your definition of handle it?
 
Teak Exterior? Tiny Exoskeleton? Timbale Extraordinar?
 
sfergson727 said:
Oh wait a sec...the lightbulb just went on. I forgot, people tend to mock what they don't understand. My apologies, boy is my face red.Cheers,
Scott
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How do expect to get any respect coming from Indiana? You are no where near the ocean and boat only on an inland lake. From what I've seen, your lake never has waves greater than 19-20 feet and that is usually in December or January when your boat is put away. The rest of the time it's just pond.
 
Coming from Cleveland, Lake Erie was as fierce as I ever want to be in. The Chesapeake is mild compared to Lake Erie's irrational behavior. Along with Frank, my main concern has always been getting back into the slip when the wind is pushing me down the fairway ripping off anchor pulpits. There has been many days I snugged into the t-head and waited the storm out prior to going into the slip...you don't want to be known as the person people run to the bow of their boat when you come in to dock....I think to sum it up, common sense plays a big part in boating.
 
Woody said:
I have to ask. What is your definition of handle it?
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Let's just put it this way. I agree with the comment someone made that most people can't judge wave heights accurately and period really counts for alot. When I bought the current boat, I did what I always do with any new boat I buy. I take it out on Lake Michigan during the day in snotty weather to see how it handles. The day I tried this one out, the lake had seas running from the SW and the wind had been blowing 25+ for 24 hours. Water was breaking over both walls at the entrance to Grand Haven. Once clear of the harbor, which took awhile because of the pitch and roll, I headed south for about 7 miles to see how the Simrad auto pilot worked at different headings going into, on the beam and with the sea. Checked out how the radar's sea clutter worked in the offshore mode and whether any lockers or doors opened. Then I headed home. Coming into the harbor, I encountered the Coast Guard practicing inlet runningin their 41 footer. That's about the roughest water one is apt to encounter on Lake Michigan during April to October, especially if you do any trip planning and watch the weather.
 
All I can think of reading all of this, is the song "The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald".

Lots of good info, I'll have to see if our lake bouys are active, I bet not. bummer. What I do, before I go out, is look at the radar animated maps, the local weather reports, NOAA weather report and I also look at a couple web cams one on the VT side (http://www.echovermont.org/weather/echocam.html in Burlington), and 2 on the NY side(www.shipstore.com - Westport Marina) of the lake to get an idea of wave activity. I'm always looking for better webcams.

VtSeaRay
 
sbw1 said:
How do expect to get any respect coming from Indiana? You are no where near the ocean and boat only on an inland lake. From what I've seen, your lake never has waves greater than 19-20 feet and that is usually in December or January when your boat is put away. The rest of the time it's just pond.
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I think everyone knows the Great Lakes are not "lakes"... I grew up on Lake Huron and know the fury mother nature dishes out up there... it'll sink freighters.

Wave height and period based on wind direction and how long its been blowing is very location dependent. I've cut across the Bay here (about 20 miles) just so I could get out on the ocean fishing where the period is much longer. My answers for Greg were really what I do around the southern Chesapeake Bay which is where he wants to boat.
 
mrsrobinson said:
[FONT=&quot]I was not sure where to post this so I dropped it in here. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If you have seen some of my recent threads, you probably know the Mrs and I want to step up to a bigger boat. We currently own a 330DA and we boat on the James/Appomattox Rivers, occasionally venturing down to Hampton/Norfolk, VA. So we are fresh water river boaters and the 330DA does great for us. We occasionally get some chop on a windy day or where two waterways meet, but nothing serious. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We want a bigger boat for 2 reasons: 1) we want to keep our boat in Hampton so we are closer to the Chesapeake Bay and 2) since Hampton is a 90+ minute trip for us from home by car, we would stay on the boat for longer periods of time when we go down there so we want more room. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Still with me? Bueller, bueller....[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]So we keep hearing from other 330DA owners and even 40DA owners that when they bay is choppy/rough they do not go out. We have even heard nobody goes out when it's too choppy/rough. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The unknown to us, since we are river boaters, is what/when is the point where you do not go out? How does one know this? Sure, if a storm is coming I am not going out. But if the forecast is great, how do I know we can take the boat out? Is this something you learn from experience or are there some guidelines? Is there a broadcast of some kind folks listen to and they hear something that tells them "not going out today, too rough". And, if it's too rough at 9AM, will it be better at noon? :huh:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thanks,[/FONT]
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Mrs Robinson, I'll try to get you back to your OP and a discussion of seamship.

This issue isn't theory, but one first of skipper skill, the boats sea worthy condition, strength and ability of the crew and boating traffic & enviroment. We are still talking about the choice of leaving the dock or going to a movie.

A windy day where you see the water totally covered in white caps, sea foam skitting accross the surface in clumps and spray hitting your face as you stand on the dock, if you have to ask the question is it too rough, the answer for you is YES, it is too rough. Perhaps for Frank or others here the answer is maybe.

Mrs Robibnson the old adage is simple, "you can't pick the weather you get on the water, but you can pick the weather you leave the dock on." A fair rule for any skipper to use is NEVER venture out in conditions you can not handle and I mean KNOW you can handle. No copy of Chapmans will save your boat and its crew in the thick of it.

Seamanship refers to a state of ability and knowledge for skipper & crew. The boats condition is a factor of owner maintenance and the original design of the boat. Some designs simply can not handle as much weather as others. Knowing what your design limits are is critical as well.

In another recent post discussing a similar issue we discussed not only wave height but wave frequency and the condition of break brought on by short frequency. Understanding this at a technical level is important for the open water boater. But this isn't a technical solution. Heavy Chop is wet, its hard on the crew, its hard on the boat and gear, its slow and creates ill will amongst the crew and guests towards the skipper.

How can you eye-ball wave height you asked? Wave height is based on the vertical distance from the bottom of the trough between wave crests and the wave tops. Six foot waves will cause the bow of the boat to travel down and back up 6 feet from trough to wave height. To develop this judgement, always listen to NWS your VFH radio for wave hieght estimates for your area. Learn to relate the knowledge to the actual enviroment your boat is experiencing. Judgement comes from experience.

Boating in chop is almost always encounted by a skipper in his first few seasons boating experience. Many will never experience 6+' chop, or white water breaking over the bow, or constant risk of broaching in every wave face. But these conditions arise from getting out there in good conditions, and then getting slapped in the face with challenging weather.

Whats the solution. Go boating don't push your limits to take insane risks, go boating with more experienced skippers when challenging conditions might be encountered, and yes read soild proven knowledge based books on boating, seamanship and heavy weather boat handling. Get out there and you will learn, just do not beg for these lessons, because if you are out there you'll get them soon enough.

What is wonderful about boating is it is a life time effort, be patient.
 
sfergson727 said:
A rule of thumb is that a boat can handle seas up to 1/2 it's length.
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Who's rule of thumb? I looked and could not find that in Chapmans. BTW, I've had my 10' LOA PWC out in 10+ foot seas.

Best regards,
Frank C.
 
if I am taking my girls out I won't go out if the spacing is too close or over 2 ft. They don't like being beat by the waves. I do a lot of fishing in the gulf and listen to NOAA each morning and unless I hear a storm is comming I'll head out and just see how it is. I have found that most of the time in the area I fish NOAA's reports are often in excess of the actual wvae height and spacing. However I fish in a 25 FT center console designed to handle the wash. I've been out in 5ft 5sec that made the fishing trip very tiresome . Caught our limit though! I've also been out in 2ft 3sec that just beat you to death and made the runs in and out very long. It's much more fun on a calm day when you can run WOT and anchor with ease on the spot.
 
Is there any way to get the sirius/XM weather feed data online? Most of my weather monitoring is done before the voyage and I can generally get a wifi connection. I would love to get the Raymarine weather overlay, but if I could achieve 70% of that with solid internet mostly-realtime data, that would be a huge improvement.

We got caught coming back from Oxford to Annapolis, and it was not a pleasant trip. But what was worse was the uncertainty - didn't know if it was going to get even more unpleasant. Had we had confidence to just sit tight, we'd have had a better time.

Hopefully the last bottle of red wine we break underway.....
 
fwebster said:
I don't think I'm freaking nuts, check with Gary on that one........but posting a rule of thumb followed by an example of a 33 ft boat being theoretically safe in 16' seas on a forum where we have people who want to run a 24 ft. Sundeck some 90 miles across the Gulf Stream to the Bahamas may well be.
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Hey Frank I only said to Bimini less than 50 Miles and ONLY, ONLY, ONLY when the weather permitted and you had a group to make the run with.:thumbsup: I hope nobody would try an open water 90 mile run in bad weather alone.:smt021 That would be just plain dumb.
 
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