What would you do - prop shaft breaks, drops, engine room is flooding

[PlayDate]

I don't think running an inboard fast with water coming in will help. First, you are down one screw and you have water coming in so the boat will weigh a lot more in a few minutes. Second depending on the damage....you could be scooping water into the boat by going anything faster than a slow speed.

About the only reason I can think of to push the throttle of the good engine far forward is to run it aground hopefully on a nice sandy bottom where you will have plenty of time to sort things out.

 

[gerryb]

I was wondering if a can of expanding sealant might work underwater even with some water rushing in. Might try an experiment in our marina inside of a bucket one day to simulate the hole and a dripless configuration. Would be a fast and easy way to get a decent seal if it works. Obviously wouldn't work if you just had a hole as when a thruhull gets ripped out but with enough contact area around the dripless...??

 

[gerryb]

I was wondering if a can of expanding sealant might work underwater even with some water rushing in. Might try an experiment in our marina inside of a bucket one day to simulate the hole and a dripless configuration. Would be a fast and easy way to get a decent seal if it works. Obviously wouldn't work if you just had a hole as when a thruhull gets ripped out but with enough contact area around the dripless...??

I definitely would not go overboard where we in the ocean. Even with protective headgear, that far under the boat you're likely to make a bad problem much worse.

 

[Stee6043]

No it won't.
A 2000 GPH bilge pump will remove 33 gpm of water in perfect conditions. I also have 3 of those in my ER, and they are not perfect. Hose friction, head, etc.
A 2" diameter hole 3' below the surface will let in 136 gallons per minute.
If something happens that the shaft leaving the boat takes the dripless seal and tears the hose, my 3 1/2" shaft log will let in 415 GPM.

Reduce the depth below water to just 2' and you start to get close in a PERFECT world, 111 GPM for a 2" hole but 340 GPM for the 3 1/2" hole
Edit: 3 feet of head reduces a rule 2000 to 1650 +/- at 13.6 volts.

This is the troubling math I had in mind. The mechanic that pulled my boat agreed with your assessment. He suggested that the three pumps in my rig would not have kept up with a missing prop shaft.

Well my foam plugs delivered today! Still no replacement prop shaft but I'll take what I can get

 

[ttmott]

Picking back up on the posts here - there is some pretty esoteric thinking; actual execution is hardly reasonable in several suggestions. This isn't that complicated - hole in boat - plug hole and let bilge pumps do their job. Hole in boat too big - either ground the boat or let it sink and take care of the passengers.
Regarding using engines to pump a bilge - if the water is that deep then batteries, starting motors, and the like are under the water and no electrical and no engines - end of story end of game.....
Remember also that many of the access hatches require electrical to open - oops now all the time to pull that dang release pin... Straight rational thinking becomes a rare commodity in these situations so set simple priorities and execute.

 

[Stee6043]

Regarding using engines to pump a bilge - if the water is that deep then batteries, starting motors, and the like are under the water and no electrical and no engines - end of story end of game.....

My strainers are mounted to the stringers with the tops at about the oil pan level. I've got a good 8-12" above the strainers before my batteries would get wet. Starters a bit before that. But to your point, execution could be complicated. Especially with the sound of water rushing in around your feet...

 

[fwebster]

ttmott echos my thoughts except that I would add that you just cannot make generalizations on this subject. Every boat and every circumstance is different so an immediate and emergent need to dewater in order to save lives and the boat almost always requires quick thinking and a sound knowledge of the both the physics and mechanics involved.

In 30 years of boating in a coastal area I have experienced this 3 times:

1. A friend had just changed his oil (in a 1998 diesel 370DA) and wanted a "crew" to handle lines and check for leaks. The US Corp of engineers was dredging the Panama City channel entrance to get the depth they needed for coastal freighters. The dredge was set up in the center of the pass and was pumping the spoils from the bottom thru a 36" steel pipe to the east shore to restore the sand dunes. Normally the 36" pipe is full of water and is submerged, but if the dredge pauses, the pipe can get filled with air and will rise to the surface. There were yellow marker bouys but they were in poor condition and were rusty and hard to see. I pointed out the location of the dredge pipe based on where it entered the water at the dredge and where it emerged on other end at the beach. The owner didn't see the marker bouys and figured the 36" pipe was submerged. Dredges stir up a lot of quick, mud, silt and turns the nearby water murky. The dredge pipe was lurking about 18" under the surface and we hit it, giving the boat a haircut......we later saw that the rudders, props shafts, trust, underwater exhaust ports, and transducers we're all sheared off flush with the bottom of the hull. We could easily have lost the boat if the struts had sheared off and had not just been pushed up between the engines. We grabbed every beach towel we could find and jammed towels into every hole water was coming into.

What I learned........shoving towels into holes with water flowing in is a lot harder than it sounds because the holes are usually ripped and torn fiberglass and nor perfectly round smooth holes. The guy manning the radio at the CG station (2 miles away) isn't really an idiot but he is a young inexperienced coastguardsman working from a script of questions on a laminated plastic form. After being asked 3 times "How many souls are onboard?", "what is your location?", I explained that he needed to get the officer of the day on the radio because I was trying to save a boat from sinking and didn't have time to answer questions multiple times. Luckily, our marina heard our distress call and sent SeaTow, who was at the fuel dock fueling up at the time. They arrived in minutes with a crash pump, took the boat in tow and immediately towed us to the haul out well at the marina. The USCG arrived at the marina in about 30 minutes and proceeded to interrogate the owner wile I took care of the boat. I look back and realize that we were lucky.....we could have easily lost a very nice boat and had a long swim in the cold December water. Financially, I don't know how the insurance company settled this but I do know the claim submitted was $78K.

2. In 1996, Sea Ray was selling everything that even looked like a boat. To get a delivery position, dealers had to submit a signed sales contract. Our dealer had 400DB hull #1 and agreed to let Sea Ray use it in the Ft. Lauderdale Boat show. I went to the boat show with the general manager of the marina to pick up the 400DB and run it back to marina in Panama City Beach. Beautiful scenery, beautiful water, great running boat and a great trip........up until we were about 50 miles offshore of Apalachicola in NW Florida. All of a sudden, the boat was gripped by a sudden shaking like I have never experienced before. I have dealt with driveline vibration as long as I have been running inboard boats and this was not a typical shaft, prop, or alignment issue. I climbed down into the bilge and found nuts and bolts everywhere, but no water entering other than from the Tides shaft seal with the bilge pumps were handling well. I found only one bolt and nut holding the coupler halves together on the port side. That one bolt/nut was only finger tight. Apparently, the coupler bolts were never tightened at the factory and eventually they worked loose and the coupler was in the process of separating. I was able to find 4 nuts and bolts scattered about the bilge, robbed one bolt, nut and lockwasher from the stud coupler and we limped on to Panama City Beach at about 1000 rpm. There was no damage to the boat and we replaced all the coupler bolts and put a new Tides seal on the port side before the buyer took delivery.

This could have been a disaster (in the absolute middle of nowhere) if we had not caught the problem before the coupler separated.

3. I was helping a friend move his charter boat (a 56' G&S Custom with 8v92's) from his slip at our marina to a boat yard 10 miles north of town. We were about 200 ft from the slip with the stbd exhaust hose burned in two and separated (an 8" rubber hose connecting the engine exhaust fitting to the exhaust outlet on the transom) An 8" hole in the transom lets a lot of water in real quick. The owner realized that this area has dredged channels around the slips on several marinas so he nosed the boat up on the dredge spoils far enough keep the water level in the boat below any critical components.

The owner replaced the exhaust hose and pumped the boat out, fired her up and backed her off the spoil bar and ran a charter the next morning. He had the replacement exhaust hose on the boat since that is why he was going to the boat yard in the first place. We didn't even get wet that day......

So, if you get in such circumstances, keep your wits about you and do not over react. In the meantime, be sure you understand the systems on your boat like where are the batteries?, how would you get to the bilge in an emergency?, Where is the hammer you are going need to drive those wooden tapered plugs into the hole the water is coming thru? etc.


Frank

 

[Rgdodson54]

I don’t know either, but forward motion reduces the water that would come in the shaft log. How fast does the boat have to move before the shaft seals Start to burn up from lack of water without the engine running without a crossover Hose? Another game time decision I guess.

Look at it this way. It is reasonable to expect whatever action resulted in the shaft breaking may well have broken the seal on the broken shaft. Many modern boats have a crossover from one shaft seal to the other. I would also think with that much water coming in, the shaft seals would be under water thus difficult to tell if by running the good side are you pumping more water into the boat.

 

[Stee6043]

ttmott echos my thoughts except that I would add that you just cannot make generalizations on this subject. Every boat and every circumstance is different so an immediate and emergent need to dewater in order to save lives and the boat almost always requires quick thinking and a sound knowledge of the both the physics and mechanics involved.

In 30 years of boating in a coastal area I have experienced this 3 times:

1. A friend had just changed his oil (in a 1998 diesel 370DA) and wanted a "crew" to handle lines and check for leaks. The US Corp of engineers was dredging the Panama City channel entrance to get the depth they needed for coastal freighters. The dredge was set up in the center of the pass and was pumping the spoils from the bottom thru a 36" steel pipe to the east shore to restore the sand dunes. Normally the 36" pipe is full of water and is submerged, but if the dredge pauses, the pipe can get filled with air and will rise to the surface. There were yellow marker bouys but they were in poor condition and were rusty and hard to see. I pointed out the location of the dredge pipe based on where it entered the water at the dredge and where it emerged on other end at the beach. The owner didn't see the marker bouys and figured the 36" pipe was submerged. Dredges stir up a lot of quick, mud, silt and turns the nearby water murky. The dredge pipe was lurking about 18" under the surface and we hit it, giving the boat a haircut......we later saw that the rudders, props shafts, trust, underwater exhaust ports, and transducers we're all sheared off flush with the bottom of the hull. We could easily have lost the boat if the struts had sheared off and had not just been pushed up between the engines. We grabbed every beach towel we could find and jammed towels into every hole water was coming into.

What I learned........shoving towels into holes with water flowing in is a lot harder than it sounds because the holes are usually ripped and torn fiberglass and nor perfectly round smooth holes. The guy manning the radio at the CG station (2 miles away) isn't really an idiot but he is a young inexperienced coastguardsman working from a script of questions on a laminated plastic form. After being asked 3 times "How many souls are onboard?", "what is your location?", I explained that he needed to get the officer of the day on the radio because I was trying to save a boat from sinking and didn't have time to answer questions multiple times. Luckily, our marina heard our distress call and sent SeaTow, who was at the fuel dock fueling up at the time. They arrived in minutes with a crash pump, took the boat in tow and immediately towed us to the haul out well at the marina. The USCG arrived at the marina in about 30 minutes and proceeded to interrogate the owner wile I took care of the boat. I look back and realize that we were lucky.....we could have easily lost a very nice boat and had a long swim in the cold December water. Financially, I don't know how the insurance company settled this but I do know the claim submitted was $78K.

2. In 1996, Sea Ray was selling everything that even looked like a boat. To get a delivery position, dealers had to submit a signed sales contract. Our dealer had 400DB hull #1 and agreed to let Sea Ray use it in the Ft. Lauderdale Boat show. I went to the boat show with the general manager of the marina to pick up the 400DB and run it back to marina in Panama City Beach. Beautiful scenery, beautiful water, great running boat and a great trip........up until we were about 50 miles offshore of Apalachicola in NW Florida. All of a sudden, the boat was gripped by a sudden shaking like I have never experienced before. I have dealt with driveline vibration as long as I have been running inboard boats and this was not a typical shaft, prop, or alignment issue. I climbed down into the bilge and found nuts and bolts everywhere, but no water entering other than from the Tides shaft seal with the bilge pumps were handling well. I found only one bolt and nut holding the coupler halves together on the port side. That one bolt/nut was only finger tight. Apparently, the coupler bolts were never tightened at the factory and eventually they worked loose and the coupler was in the process of separating. I was able to find 4 nuts and bolts scattered about the bilge, robbed one bolt, nut and lockwasher from the stud coupler and we limped on to Panama City Beach at about 1000 rpm. There was no damage to the boat and we replaced all the coupler bolts and put a new Tides seal on the port side before the buyer took delivery.

This could have been a disaster (in the absolute middle of nowhere) if we had not caught the problem before the coupler separated.

3. I was helping a friend move his charter boat (a 56' G&S Custom with 8v92's) from his slip at our marina to a boat yard 10 miles north of town. We were about 200 ft from the slip with the stbd exhaust hose burned in two and separated (an 8" rubber hose connecting the engine exhaust fitting to the exhaust outlet on the transom) An 8" hole in the transom lets a lot of water in real quick. The owner realized that this area has dredged channels around the slips on several marinas so he nosed the boat up on the dredge spoils far enough keep the water level in the boat below any critical components.

The owner replaced the exhaust hose and pumped the boat out, fired her up and backed her off the spoil bar and ran a charter the next morning. He had the replacement exhaust hose on the boat since that is why he was going to the boat yard in the first place. We didn't even get wet that day......

So, if you get in such circumstances, keep your wits about you and do not over react. In the meantime, be sure you understand the systems on your boat like where are the batteries?, how would you get to the bilge in an emergency?, Where is the hammer you are going need to drive those wooden tapered plugs into the hole the water is coming thru? etc.


Frank

This is an awesome post. Thank you so much for sharing!

 

[Stee6043]

UPDATE - All is well, brought my boat back home to Michigan from Wisconsin over the weekend. Had a smooth ride. Ran like a champ though I need to loosen up the newly repaired rudder. It's way too tight at the moment.

I figured I'd share what I put together as a "crash kit" during my two week hiatus from boating. I figure this is a good start. Of course I already have my VHF programmed with my MMSI, the wife knows how to use the red button, and I keep a PLB at the helm anytime we're out on the big lake. But prior to now I've never had anything setup to deal with a potential hole in the boat.


Inside a 2L waterproof bag (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BKWCD89/ref=dp_prsubs_1), hanging in the engine room, I now have the following:

1. One large foam plug/cone - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VWQZ9DE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2. One small foam plug/cone - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BFWXT36/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
3. Two wax toilet bowl rings - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XSWN2WF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
4. Two rolls of rescue tape - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ZTM72U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
   
5. An assortment of zip ties (a bunch of 18" sizes included)
6. A leatherman/multi-tool
7. A small towel
8. About 10' of paracord

The waterproof bag itself could be hugely useful for something like a prop shaft coming out of the boat. Push it over the dripless, tie it off, keep an eye on.

Thanks for the awesome discussion in this thread, gentlemen! I learned a lot...

 

[ttmott]

UPDATE - All is well, brought my boat back home to Michigan from Wisconsin over the weekend. Had a smooth ride. Ran like a champ though I need to loosen up the newly repaired rudder. It's way too tight at the moment.

I figured I'd share what I put together as a "crash kit" during my two week hiatus from boating. I figure this is a good start. Of course I already have my VHF programmed with my MMSI, the wife knows how to use the red button, and I keep a PLB at the helm anytime we're out on the big lake. But prior to now I've never had anything setup to deal with a potential hole in the boat.


Inside a 2L waterproof bag (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BKWCD89/ref=dp_prsubs_1), hanging in the engine room, I now have the following:

1. One large foam plug/cone - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VWQZ9DE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2. One small foam plug/cone - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BFWXT36/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
3. Two wax toilet bowl rings - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XSWN2WF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
4. Two rolls of rescue tape - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ZTM72U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
   
5. An assortment of zip ties (a bunch of 18" sizes included)
6. A leatherman/multi-tool
7. A small towel
8. About 10' of paracord

The waterproof bag itself could be hugely useful for something like a prop shaft coming out of the boat. Push it over the dripless, tie it off, keep an eye on.

Thanks for the awesome discussion in this thread, gentlemen! I learned a lot...

Did they give you any idea what the root cause of the shaft failure was?

 

[Stee6043]

Did they give you any idea what the root cause of the shaft failure was?

Hitting something submerged They think the impact fractured it at the coupler. 90 seconds of running post-impact was just enough time for the vibration to completely separate the shaft.

They mentioned the alignment may have been slightly off before the impact but I've never had any kind of vibration in the boat. Smooth as silk, always.

 

[MattB92]

This thread has been a good read...

I'll try to make this long story short. Last night the wife and I went to the marina just to hangout and have a cold one. I wanted to empty the water tank, so i turned on the galley sink.. Just as the tank was about empty, water started coming out at my feet from under the berth steps.. I did not realize that all of my grey water goes to a sump under the steps and from there the bilge pumps it to the holding tank.. Yes as you can tell this was a sh*tty situation. The pressure coming back from the holding tank was so high the bilge blew out of the rubber thing, think its a type of check valve? Anyway I managed to plug it back up so water from the tank wasn't rushing in.

It was around 8pm at this time, as I was cleaning up I started questioning.. what if this was lake water coming in and I couldn't stop it? The marina had the ramp blocked off.. I don't have a trailer. My only option would of been to try and get a hold of the service manager and see if somebody can come back to open the ramp and lift the boat out. What other options would I have? Let the boat sink, or fire her up and try to beach it somewhere safe to reduce the damage?

Anyway, my fault for not understanding how my system works.. that is one way to learn. I will definitely be changing the plumbing so that my grey water goes overboard. So much for long story short..

Whoops, appreciate any feedback

 

[J.Wilt]

UPDATE - All is well, brought my boat back home to Michigan from Wisconsin over the weekend. Had a smooth ride. Ran like a champ though I need to loosen up the newly repaired rudder. It's way too tight at the moment.

I figured I'd share what I put together as a "crash kit" during my two week hiatus from boating. I figure this is a good start. Of course I already have my VHF programmed with my MMSI, the wife knows how to use the red button, and I keep a PLB at the helm anytime we're out on the big lake. But prior to now I've never had anything setup to deal with a potential hole in the boat.


Inside a 2L waterproof bag (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BKWCD89/ref=dp_prsubs_1), hanging in the engine room, I now have the following:

1. One large foam plug/cone - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VWQZ9DE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2. One small foam plug/cone - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BFWXT36/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
3. Two wax toilet bowl rings - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XSWN2WF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
4. Two rolls of rescue tape - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000ZTM72U/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
   
5. An assortment of zip ties (a bunch of 18" sizes included)
6. A leatherman/multi-tool
7. A small towel
8. About 10' of paracord

The waterproof bag itself could be hugely useful for something like a prop shaft coming out of the boat. Push it over the dripless, tie it off, keep an eye on.

Thanks for the awesome discussion in this thread, gentlemen! I learned a lot...

Glad you guys made it back to GH safely, this has turned into a great thread, now time to go shopping for emergency kit.