What would you do - prop shaft breaks, drops, engine room is flooding

How far offshore are those posts? I guess this makes a good case to keep anodes on my shafts....
 
Just another thing to think of. There was no assurance that the shaft was going to stay in place since you couldn’t verify what was happening under the boat. Lucky for you it did. If I saw that, I think I would have clamped my vise grips on that shaft just to make sure it wasn’t going to fall out........
 
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cod said:
Just another thing to think of. There was no assurance that the shaft was going to stay in place since you couldn’t verify what was happening under the boat. Lucky for you it did. If I saw that, I think I would have clamped my vise grips on that shaft just to make sure it wasn’t going to fall out........
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Good idea!
 
It could be far worse if you are by yourself. I hit a submerged log while on plane that wedged itself in the prop tunnel. The torque cracked the hull strut pad, bent the port shaft and destroyed the prop ......all in a matter of a couple of seconds. The engine alarm sounded and the rear bilge pump light lit up. Water was coming in from the crack in the strut pad. Even though I had plugs....they were of no use since the shaft was still in place.

I started the port engine and put it in gear and the engine died. Water was still coming in. So I started the port engine with the idea that I would pull the strainer cover if the bilge pumps could not keep up. I also started the generator. I carry an AC powered pump as well that I have never used. Water was still coming in but the bilge pumps were holding their own pumping it out of the boat.

Next I untied the dinghy on the swim platform so that I at least had a backup plan. I grabbed a small go bag and tossed it into the dinghy. I checked the chart plotter for the nearest soft shoreline and was about 3 miles away from a marina with a lift. I put the starboard engine in gear and slowly headed for the marina while keeping an eye on the water level.

The marina did not answer Channel 16 but they picked up when I called them on my cell phone. They had the lift ready to pick the boat up as I motored what seemed like an 20 minutes with the bilge pumps running most of the way.

$5k later (shafts, props and a rebuild of the strut pad) the boat was back in the water.

So....I feel your pain even though it was 16 years ago. It taught me a valuable lesson to think through the scenarios and ensure you have a mental checklist to get you (and anyone else on board) to a safe ending.
 
Just a thought here and maybe this scenario is different but in my career in law enforcement we were trained to call for help before reacting. In this scenario if you try to plug the leak before calling for help and you aren't successful then will you be able to call for help? I do understand that time is critical here in stopping a leak but would it be a good idea to call for help first? Now if you have company onboard then they can call for help.
 
boatman37 said:
Just a thought here and maybe this scenario is different but in my career in law enforcement we were trained to call for help before reacting. In this scenario if you try to plug the leak before calling for help and you aren't successful then will you be able to call for help? I do understand that time is critical here in stopping a leak but would it be a good idea to call for help first? Now if you have company onboard then they can call for help.
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To me it's 1 and 1a. Need to quickly evaluate your ability to control the leak. That will buy you time to call for help. If you look at it and there's just no way, then call for help first cause you're probably going down. Calling for help can take some time communicating with authorities and allow the small leak you could control to swamp the boat.

The "easiest" leaks to control are holes that are already cut into the hull -- thru hulls, shaft openings, etc. They are usually a certain diameter and plugs work well. Even a towel or rag can slow it down enough. Leaks caused by impact are a bigger problem. Those are the ones you want to call for help first.
 
If you were in water that deep, it's possible your shaft sheared due to imbalance, misalignment, or a microfracture near a keyway.

Glad you're OK. Have someone or a 3rd party evaluate the broken parts to get to root cause.
 
In Lake Winnebago last year a boat hit an inlit buoy. The chain caught the prop and yanked it clean out. I don't know the people personally but there were many posts on FB about it. She sank but in shallow enough water to still see the windshield above the water.
 
First of all, it's great to hear that everyone was safe and you've managed to get to a nearest port without issues. And also thanks for sharing your story. Besides gathering some suggestions, these discussions are serve as a good "wake up calls" and reminders we all could use from time to time.

There were number of good suggestions, but I have to admit that toilet bowl wax rings was something I haven't heard yet. It could definitely come handy to seal a crack where cone or wooden plugs would be useless. I'll add that to my list as well.

As you think though what had transpired, you probably already realized that the biggest issue was the fact that you had no plan B. If she was to go down, everyone onboard would end up overboard. The worst part in this scenario, is the fact that you've mentioned very cold water temps. This means that survival rate is dropped drastically, due to hypothermia. At 50 degrees you got only 30-60 min. Having said that, when putting together solutions for plan B, you need to keep in mind how to keep your crew dry and warm as long as possible.

Years ago, when we started doing more extensive cruising, a tender was a must have. Over the year, the tender grew with a mothership. An 11'er with 40HP can get you to safety quick. As we started doing more offshore cruising, a liferaft became a must have equipment. That's my plan C. I don't recall if it was mentioned here yet, but a ditch bag (with waterproof handheld VHF) is another must have. Depending on your offshore cruising plans, EPIRB or PLB is something worth looking into.

My steps in this scenario:
1. Everyone - PDFs are on.
2. Stop the "bleeding". Do a quick assessment on how bad is the damage and if I'll be able to keep it under control.
3. Make the VHF call and know what you need. Meaning, if the situation is under control, it's just an FYI for the CG. If not sure and help is needed, you ask for it ASAP.
4. Lock the bad shaft and head to nearest port.
5. Use whatever means possible to keep the mothership afloat and stay with it, as it'll increase your survival chance, if a tender or a liferaft is not available.

Oh, BTW, I have all the diving rig, but diving in 50 degrees would be pretty far on my to-do list. I'd first exhaust all of my options to do everything from the inside. And as Steve mentioned, I had the same thought as I was reading your post. Use whatever tool possible to ensure that the shaft stays in place without falling off. It was the most effective "plug" for the hole. Otherwise, you'd need to have helping items to act as an emergency plug.
 
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Be mindful on the sequence of activities that when or if the batteries go under water you are doomed for electrical power including any use of a VHF and just as importantly lighting that is wired to the batteries.
In the case of the OP's sheared shaft if it was me and thinking at the time that it could slide out thus dramatically changing the situation and distance from safe harbor I would make the PAN PAN
 
I was coming back from Thunderbay Canada a couple years ago and decided to go to Isle Royale to check out a spot that I wanted to anchor out at on a future trip to the Island. I hit rocks and luckily only damaged my props.

When it happened I had alarms squealing, felt the impact, and port engine killed all at the same time. I was startled by it all, mostly because of the alarm squealing, and shut everything down. I shut down the stbd engine first and it was then that I realized the port engine wasn't running. It was the starter relay/solenoid that went out that kept the port engine from starting I found out after it all. Why that happened I have no idea.

There I was in the boonies, luckily it was a dead still day. I was slowly drifting toward shallow boulder covered bottom. On the 420DA you have to power up the ass of the cockpit for access to the bilge. I've never timed it but it seemed forever waiting so I could get in to look for leaks. While waiting those extra seconds I decided to run it on the rocks(softly) if water was pouring in, I was imaging a gaping hole. That would likely be the end of the boat if weather kicked up but I had no where else to go, and no help is near.

As it turned out I had no leaks. I fired up the stbd engine and made my way out of there without hitting anything else. Once I got myself in some deeper water. I jumped in the water to see what the damage was, luckily only props. I've been in the cold water many times, I'd guess the temps were upper 50's that day but it's tolerable. Colder than that and it's hard to stay in and it wouldn't take long and you'll be losing dexterity and fumbling around if you try to do something.

I had about 100 miles to go, took about 12hrs, ran through the nite and arrived at the marina at daylight the next morning.

I had nothing specific onboard for plugging holes and leaks but yet we all carry stuff that can be used, you have to think about it...towels, bedding, rags, life vests, pieces of carpet. I've got a foam ski vest that could be quickly cut to make plugs for example. I also have a knife kept near the helm that is emergency use only, never used or moved from it's spot. Don't touch it or you'll catch hell.

I did purchase after this incident some rescue tape, Stay Afloat(it's waxy stuff like a toilet ring), and some foam plugs. One thing I was considering was to carry a piece of like conveyor belting. Something I could put over a large hull hole from the outside and screw in place with a cordless. They will run under water I'm told, I'd have to verify that though.

This is the waxy stuff I bought
 
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One time I heard a call from a boater in trouble. They were taking on water, bilge pumps weren't running and they were hand bailing they said. The folks on the boat didn't know much about anything. We ended up closing the seacock unhooking the intake water line for the air conditioning and using it's pump to help empty the bilge. Once we got things emptied out and investigated we found there were no hull leaks. What had happened was a line had come loose in their water system and the water tank had emptied into the bilge. On top of that it had rained cats and dogs the whole night before and they accumulated some more water with bilge pumps not working.
 
One decision we've made is we've stopped cruising offshore. Lots of reasons why. Fuel consumption. So much hit and miss if conditions will be comfortable. General safety concerns. And we now find it very boring. We just go up and down the ICW and except for that crappy St Andrews Sound, the dingy on the swim platform will get you to shore in short order on all the skinny waterways.
 
Alex F said:
First of all, it's great to hear that everyone was safe and you've managed to get to a nearest port without issues. And also thanks for sharing your story. Besides gathering some suggestions, these discussions are serve as a good "wake up calls" and reminders we all could use from time to time.

There were number of good suggestions, but I have to admit that toilet bowl wax rings was something I haven't heard yet. It could definitely come handy to seal a crack where cone or wooden plugs would be useless. I'll add that to my list as well.

As you think though what had transpired, you probably already realized that the biggest issue was the fact that you had no plan B. If she was to go down, everyone onboard would end up overboard. The worst part in this scenario, is the fact that you've mentioned very cold water temps. This means that survival rate is dropped drastically, due to hypothermia. At 50 degrees you got only 30-60 min. Having said that, when putting together solutions for plan B, you need to keep in mind how to keep your crew dry and warm as long as possible.

Years ago, when we started doing more extensive cruising, a tender was a must have. Over the year, the tender grew with a mothership. An 11'er with 40HP can get you to safety quick. As we started doing more offshore cruising, a liferaft became a must have equipment. That's my plan C. I don't recall if it was mentioned here yet, but a ditch bag (with waterproof handheld VHF) is another must have. Depending on your offshore cruising plans, EPIRB or PLB is something worth looking into.

My steps in this scenario:
1. Everyone - PDFs are on.
2. Stop the "bleeding". Do a quick assessment on how bad is the damage and if I'll be able to keep it under control.
3. Make the VHF call and know what you need. Meaning, if the situation is under control, it's just an FYI for the CG. If not sure and help is needed, you ask for it ASAP.
4. Lock the bad shaft and head to nearest port.
5. Use whatever means possible to keep the mothership afloat and stay with it, as it'll increase your survival chance, if a tender or a liferaft is not available.

Oh, BTW, I have all the diving rig, but diving in 50 degrees would be pretty far on my to-do list. I'd first exhaust all of my options to do everything from the inside. And as Steve mentioned, I had the same thought as I was reading your post. Use whatever tool possible to ensure that the shaft stays in place without falling off. It was the most effective "plug" for the hole. Otherwise, you'd need to have helping items to act as an emergency plug.
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Great thoughts, thank you! I do have a dinghy and that is for sure the Plan B if sinking offshore were to become inevitable. I also carry a PLB at the helm anytime we're away from shore.

I've heard a couple folks suggest locking the broken shaft. How would you do this short of line around the prop? In my case there was less than an inch of shaft still showing in the boat. I'm not sure how (or why?) I would have secured it from inside the boat? I suppose the why would be to keep it from falling the rest of the way out.

Good stuff. I'm learning a lot from this thread. Including the fact that Amazon prime has toilet bowl wax rings for $5 delivered to my door :)
 
Stee6043 said:
Great thoughts, thank you! I do have a dinghy and that is for sure the Plan B if sinking offshore were to become inevitable. I also carry a PLB at the helm anytime we're away from shore.

I've heard a couple folks suggest locking the broken shaft. How would you do this short of line around the prop? In my case there was less than an inch of shaft still showing in the boat. I'm not sure how (or why?) I would have secured it from inside the boat? I suppose the why would be to keep it from falling the rest of the way out.

Good stuff. I'm learning a lot from this thread. Including the fact that Amazon prime has toilet bowl wax rings for $5 delivered to my door :)
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Each situation would be different. Need to call upon your inner McGyver. :)
 
Stee6043 said:
...I've heard a couple folks suggest locking the broken shaft. How would you do this short of line around the prop? In my case there was less than an inch of shaft still showing in the boat. I'm not sure how (or why?) I would have secured it from inside the boat? I suppose the why would be to keep it from falling the rest of the way out...
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It's relatively easy when a shaft is attached to a coupling. I've done it many times, during my experiments running on one engine. I used a short dock line, put a loop on one of the bolts on the coupling, do several rotations on the shaft and tie the end to a motor mount or anything close and has a solid holding. It took me no more than a minute to get that in place. I did this few years ago, but I left those short lines securely attached right in the spot where I need them.

In your particular situation, it's obviously much more challenging, having the shaft separated from the coupling. As Golfman said, you'd need to become a McGyver. As you see, few people here had the same immediate thought. How do you prevent from the shaft escaping and if it continues to spin, chances are too high for it to slide out. Let's face it, you had no confirmation and were under a great assumption that the prop is still in place leaning against the rudder, which saved the day. It's was a blessing that all held in place as you did a short run to your port. If you had to go much further, the luck you had could have easily run out.

I'd use any kind of tools like large vise grips and channel locks to grab the shaft and move it inside as far as it goes. This would give you much more surface to work with. To lock it, vise grips would probably be most effective tool as it has a constant grip (if you had two that would be a total saver). You could then use a short line to wrap it around the shaft, when the vise grips acting as an "anchor". If no vise grips available, I'd be thinking on using anything with a good grip (rubber, leather, vinyl, etc.) in combination of using the line wrapped around the shaft. BTW, you need to be mindful which way the shaft is spinning, so you wrap the line in the correct direction.

A rescue tape or any available tape as close to the dripless seal as possible would also help. I'd use any means to prevent or at least slow down the shaft sliding event.

If this happens in warmer water, where taking a dive is not a big deal, if you can clearly see that the prop is doing all the work by leaning against the rudder, perhaps more effective and easier job is to use a line to secure the prop in the same position, being attached to the rudder (just do few loops around the prop and the rudder).

Just quick thoughts. Maybe someone has better ideas on locking it with no attachment to coupling.
 
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Use hose clamps on the shafts to hold the rope in place or as a stop to keep the rope from sliding off. Every one should be carrying a few hose clamps of different sizes for that sudden broken hose!
 
Wow Stee - that’s a scary event. I’m glad to hear it wasn’t worse. It certainly could have been!

This statement gave me pause...

Stee6043 said:
Obviously in either scenario the co-captain is hailing the Coast Guard....
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I thought you had DSC fully configured. Do we need to have an awkward conversation?
 
boatman37 said:
Just a thought here and maybe this scenario is different but in my career in law enforcement we were trained to call for help before reacting. In this scenario if you try to plug the leak before calling for help and you aren't successful then will you be able to call for help? I do understand that time is critical here in stopping a leak but would it be a good idea to call for help first? Now if you have company onboard then they can call for help.
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I agree, call for help first. Thinking about how I would handle this, my first action would be to activate the distress button on the VHF, and then investigate the issue. I'm not sure what the next steps for the distress would be though, so I need to think through that. I assume that it would send out the alert, along with my GPS coordinates, so I would at least throw that flag up while I turn my attention to the problem at hand.

Really good thread, sorry it came at your expense, Stee. But it does highlight the need to think about this kind of stuff ahead of time so we're ready for it.
 
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