Westerbeke gas geneator

[Roger Williams]

Roger,

For what it is worth.....you may want to have your marina or a local marine mechanic at least check it out. Waiting isn't a good option and the result is somewhat binary. Either it starts and runs or it is has a more serious internal problem.

I'm hopeful if they can get the plugs out and rotate the engine it will show water got in to one of more of the cylinders. Putting some WD-40 into each cylinder and a fresh set of plugs probably will get it going.

In terms of long term damage......that is a guess. I would at least do a compression test to see if there is a compression problem and to have a baseline for the future.

It would also be a good thing to change the oil once you have it running.

Thank you,

We have pulled the oil already as we were looking for water in there as we first were troubleshooting. Problem is the boat is in a private marina with no services onsite and in a location where getting a mechanic is weeks away. The boat is 2 hours away form me so relying on my super capable dad to help out but at 80 he can't be doing yoga in the bilge . I am trying to get away and make my way up there to do this myself ASAP and will at least have a helper or be there to help.

I will need to get plugs but the manual (page 46) does not say what type (I am not close to store so need to bring plugs as I may not be able to plugs to compare) I will also bring oil which says in the manual SAE 40W oil with an API code of SJ?. Anything else?

Thanks again everyone for being so generous with your time and expertise!

Roger

 

[PlayDate]

Ironically......when I went to look up the plugs I found this old thread.....

http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/westerbeke-generator-spark-plug-mystery.75466/

WB makes it hard to figure out exactly the cross reference from their number of:
043071

That said.......it looks like this is what you need 3 of:

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p...d912d0da6ff2104c799bb3c3406e21bf&gclsrc=3p.ds

Hopefully ngk bpr5es does the trick. I would also bring a really thick blanket to lie on top of the engine. You will probably need to lie on the engine to reach back across the top of the generator. Also mark the spark plug wires so you get them back on the right plugs.

Be patient.....this will not be an easy job since you cannot see the plugs or the spark plug boots.

 

[Roger Williams]

Ironically......when I went to look up the plugs I found this old thread.....

http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/westerbeke-generator-spark-plug-mystery.75466/

WB makes it hard to figure out exactly the cross reference from their number of:
043071

That said.......it looks like this is what you need 3 of:

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/ngk-standard-spark-plug-bpr5es-solid-4006/18090161-p?c3ch=PLA&c3nid=18090161-P&adtype=&product_channel=Online&store_code=&msclkid=d912d0da6ff2104c799bb3c3406e21bf&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=b_shopping_all_ignition/emission_gen_gen_gen_evergreen_eng_aap_us_all&utm_term=4581046490038445&utm_content=Bing_All_Ignition/emission -spark Plugs_Spark Plugs&gclid=d912d0da6ff2104c799bb3c3406e21bf&gclsrc=3p.ds

Hopefully ngk bpr5es does the trick. I would also bring a really thick blanket to lie on top of the engine. You will probably need to lie on the engine to reach back across the top of the generator. Also mark the spark plug wires so you get them back on the right plugs.

Be patient.....this will not be an easy job since you cannot see the plugs or the spark plug boots.

Amazing, I have a yoga mat and carpet underlay. Will order now to pick up on the way up. Thank you again for everything. More to come

 

[PlayDate]

Don't hesitate to post a question if you run into a problem. This is one of those jobs that gets done with your hands not your eyes.

Close the seacock to the generator.

Once you get the plugs out.....crank the engine. If it cranks water will blast out of the spark plug holes but given their location .....you may not see it.

If it spins (1-2 seconds) normally........(you are half way home), then spray WD40 into the spark plug holes. You will also have to do this by feel and make sure not to lose the straw into the spark plug hole.

Let it sit for an hour or so. Crank it again for 5 seconds.

Put the new plugs back in being very careful not to drop them or cross thread them. Make sure they are gapped correctly.

Then you are ready to start it. With the seacock still closed....crank the engine and hopefully it will fire up. Once it does shut it off and open the seacock.

Then you are ready to go and let it run for 15-20 minutes.

 

[Roger Williams]

UPDATE

Thank you everyone.

Made the 2 hr drive. We have the plugs out, have emptied the water from the cylinders and still same thing it will not turn over just the clunk. I put some seafoam in each cylinder and will leave over night and try again in the morning.

Is there any way to break the seize? I should add that the generator has not run this year and last year it ran fine so this issue didn't happen while running so hope I haven't bent anything.

Open to any other suggestions people may have and thanks again.

Roger

 

[dwna1a]

So she was hydrolocked? If so did she turn over while the plugs were out?

 

[Roger Williams]

So she was hydrolocked? If so did she turn over while the plugs were out?

Yes she was hydrolocked (there was water in cylinders) but after removing plugs it still will not turn over. It still makes the same clunk and does not turn over (see original thread video). Is there a way to manually turn it to break the sieze? I also read that I may want to remove impeller.

As of now we got the water out of the top of the cylinders, removed oil that had water in the pan but not emulsified as engine never run, filled cylinders with seafoam overnight. Will go and try again this morning. If no ground then will take to mechanic when I return boat to the hard at Dagmar Everett next week (4 hrs by boat).

 

[PlayDate]

So she was hydrolocked? If so did she turn over while the plugs were out?

I have the same question.....I don't know how to get the water out if it doesn't spin the engine. In addition.....Seafoam is not a penetrant....it is a solvent. If the rings are seized to the cylinder wall.....you need a penetrant like WD-40. Unfortunately, WD-40 won't work through water or Seafoam.

How to turn a seized engine. Fortunately it is a small, 3 cylinder engine. The bad news is that it is still on the boat. There is a plastic cover that covers the belts on the front of the engine. If you can get that off. You may be able to get a socket onto the crank bolt: #7 on the diagram.

What you want to do is carefully put clockwise pressure on that bolt. If it moves the crank and belts.....that is good news. If the bolt moves and the crank does not.....that is bad news and you should stop.

Hopefully the crank and belts move. If they continue to do so.....you should be able to manually roll the engine over a few times and then try the starter again.

 

[dwna1a]

PlayD it kinda sounds like it dropped a rod or valve, now it could be jammed against a piston. ?

As Play states. Remove the front cover, go to the bottom pulley and spin with a long bar with the correct socket.

Bad news is the water is not out. WD, Marvel Mystery Oil. It must be a penetrating oil. Spin it and add more. Change the oil and filter.

IF I was on your side of the world, I’d come help. VA is to far away

I don’t fly

 

[Roger Williams]

OMG, you are all amazing and thank you again for everything. I will provide a more detailed update with pictures and what worked for me but so far you are all bang on. Bringing boat back to hard later this week and have spoken with my mechanic whom agreed with all of you and is ready to look when I am back. I will share this post with him as I figure the more info the better.

I did try to start this year but it was not starting. Obviously I ingested water but it never ran with water in it, nor had it run this year. The oil is not emulsified but there was water in the oil pan. Why I say this is that could I bend or break something just trying to start it or would it need to be running to break, bend, crack?

Here are some highlights:
- Laid a yoga mat and carpet underlay across engines. Laid down feet to Port (2000 340 sundancer) head to generator.
- Extracted oil through dipstick as drain hose is poorly designed for my set up
- Pulled plugs, totally fouled which is maybe why no start. This is a feel rather than look job but totally possible.
- Would not spin with starter after plugs so extracted water from cylinders with extractor. - 3rd cylinder lots of water, 2nd some water, 1st no water which I assume is piston position?
- Wish I had used penetrating oil but had seafoam on hand.
- Came back next day tried to spin with ratchet but did not move. Did not want to put too much pressure.

Next, bring boat home, 2 day trip through puget sound with family. All marina this trip. Put on hard and get help from mechanic. Will update when I know more.

I will add pictures for others but please DM me if you have questions. A huge thank you to everyone for your time and expertise. We are so grateful!

Roger

 

[Burg guy]

Put some red ATF in each cylinder until mechanic can get to it. It will keep the corrosion and rust down and will act as a penetrating oil. Best thing to free up frozen rings and coat the cyl walls.

 

[PlayDate]

Salt water will completely seize an engine in less than a week. Sunk boat salvors "pickle" the engine (fill the entire engine with diesel fuel) to protect it and displace the water once they get it to the surface.

If the water has been in there for a while just plan on pulling the generator and having the engine portion rebuilt. I don't think it is something broken based on the history reported.

An engine rebuild is a relatively simple job on that engine since it is only three cylinders. Mitsubishi engine rebuild kits with pistons and liners are about $700....... probably double (or triple) that from Westerbeke.

 

[Roger Williams]

Update!

Another huge thank you to everyone in this community for your help over the past months with my generator challenges (see the journey above).

We tried and we tried to free this up while in the boat with no luck. I have the generator out of the boat and home in the garage. I will ATF it and plan to have someone look at it but heading out of vacation first . I really don't have a reliable way to move this thing around. This is an absolute beast at over 300 lbs. Seems the "generating" side is the super heavy side. I was going to maybe rent a knockdown engine hoist or maybe get scissor lift dolly.

As we had to remove the starboard manifold/riser/elbow to get her out we also found a crack in the manifolder or riser. I am of two minds, one happy we found it now rather than later but, also the usual 2 $teps forward and 4 $teps back. I have been told about $5k for my mechanic to do all 4 manifold/riser/gasket/bolt/labor/etc but will do some searching.

I will keep this string updated as we navigate this project. If you have questions please let me know. I will do my best to track the prices and processes to share.

Thanks again everyone, I hope you are all well!

RW

 

[Roger Williams]

Salt water will completely seize an engine in less than a week. Sunk boat salvors "pickle" the engine (fill the entire engine with diesel fuel) to protect it and displace the water once they get it to the surface.

If the water has been in there for a while just plan on pulling the generator and having the engine portion rebuilt. I don't think it is something broken based on the history reported.

An engine rebuild is a relatively simple job on that engine since it is only three cylinders. Mitsubishi engine rebuild kits with pistons and liners are about $700....... probably double (or triple) that from Westerbeke.

Is it possible to remove the engine from the "electrical generator part" which would make it easier to transport or is it a complicated task to separate?

Thank you,
Roger

 

[dwna1a]

Yes, you can separate the two

 

[Roger Williams]

Yes, you can separate the two

Thank you dwna1a,

Just looking for opinions. Do you think that makes sense as I am going to need to move it around to the small engine mechanic then back to the boat. It is impossible to move in and out of truck from the ground by myself or really even with two.

Do you think the separation is something an amateur could do? Any chance there are instructions around, my searching has come up with nothing.

All the best,
RW

 

[Roger Williams]

Yes, you can separate the two

Hi dwna1a,
Thanks again for all your support along my journey. I think I have found guidance on removing the backend of the generator.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/681490/Westerbeke-5-0kw-Bcg-60hz.html?page=13#manual

Any advice or suggestions if I do try to tackle this?

Thanks so much again for your expertise!

RW

 

[bobeast]

Back in my hot-rodding days, I used to just rent a cherry-picker from the local auto-parts store to pull and drop-in engines. Seems like that might solve your portability issues.

 

[dwna1a]

Or just rent engine lift.

 

[bobeast]

Or just rent engine lift.

Right. We used to call those cherry-pickers, but I've been out of the game for a while and the term "cherry-picker" may have offended someone, somewhere, since then.