Tragic swimming accident close to home.

ChuckW said:
This is better entertainment than spending $10 bucks at the theatre :grin:. Got my popcorn out.

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Shut up George! Go master your domain. :grin:
 
billandamy, don't get me wrong... how much of a "captain" in the traditional sense can I be mainly boating on Coralville Lake in Iowa? You missed the point by a long shot and that wasn't my intention. (Sorry if I was vague and harsh). I too could give two craps about being called "captain". I'm only playing that semantic to stress that on my boat, when safety is concerned, I make the decisions and do feel responsible for my guests...(Is that wrong?) If is it something clearly precarious or imminent, then I will put a stop to it.... period..

What if a person refused to stop riding on the foredeck of a cruiser or stand on the gunnel while on plane? Is it unreasonable to request your guests to wear a lifejacket while swimming near the boat in a fairly strong current? Leaning over the bow of a bowrider while on plane? The list could go on!

I make a point of respecting the wishes of the owner/operator/captain of the vessel on which I am a guest. Mostly common sense dictates, and I've never had a problem with anyone refusing or even complaining.

Poor choices of personal responsibility rarely ONLY effect the person making the choice. Usually their poor choices have a habit of directly effecting others. (ie. drunk driver refusing to let go of his keys kills another on the road, swimmer who refused life jacket drowns and takes down another victim who feels obligated to save him).

I know this is all very subjective and mostly accidents happen in the most extreme of circumstances, but am I unreasonable and missing something here?
 
MExcelsior said:
billandamy, don't get me wrong... how much of a "captain" in the traditional sense can I be mainly boating on Coralville Lake in Iowa? You missed the point by a long shot and that wasn't my intention. (Sorry if I was vague and harsh). I too could give two craps about being called "captain". I'm only playing that semantic to stress that on my boat, when safety is concerned, I make the decisions and do feel responsible for my guests...(Is that wrong?) If is it something clearly precarious or imminent, then I will put a stop to it.... period..

What if a person refused to stop riding on the foredeck of a cruiser or stand on the gunnel while on plane? Is it unreasonable to request your guests to wear a lifejacket while swimming near the boat in a fairly strong current? Leaning over the bow of a bowrider while on plane? The list could go on!

I make a point of respecting the wishes of the owner/operator/captain of the vessel on which I am a guest. Mostly common sense dictates, and I've never had a problem with anyone refusing or even complaining.

Poor choices of personal responsibility rarely ONLY effect the person making the choice. Usually their poor choices have a habit of directly effecting others. (ie. drunk driver refusing to let go of his keys kills another on the road, swimmer who refused life jacket drowns and takes down another victim who feels obligated to save him).

I know this is all very subjective and mostly accidents happen in the most extreme of circumstances, but am I unreasonable and missing something here?
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You are NOT being unreasonable at all. My point was not to bash anyone requesting people to wear pfd's at all, or to belittle the advice given. If I was in open waters, or in a similar channel or flow/temp etc...this occured, I would be with you asking people to wear pfd's. I havent had to do so, because being a "good boat owner", I anchor in a cove where I know it is "safe" to swim with or without a jacket because it is almost if not completely still water.

When we wakeboard of course, it is in the flow of the lake/river, but everyone will always wear a vest when involved in watersports. Besides children, that is also where i would draw the line. No vest, then no tubing, skiing or boarding. Here Id never get an argument it seems as people just inherently look for the vest. Swimming, no they dont usually.

My main point was that you can ask and request people to follow your suggestions, but cant force them. In the end, they have to decide.

And in the end, after my request, I would go on with my day whether they listened or not.
 
ChuckW said:
awwhhh, just when it was gettin' fun..:huh:
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Im quite sure this isnt going to be the last time it will be fun on this site with the many dozens of personalities...:smt101
 
So... Commander Bill... You saying you wouldn't take someone tubing unless they had on a PFD? What's the difference? I mean... if they say "I don't want to wear one", why not take them anyway? It's their responsibility... I mean... you don't need a license to tow someone around. "no license = no liability"
 
Four Suns said:
So... Commander Bill... You saying you wouldn't take someone tubing unless they had on a PFD? What's the difference? I mean... if they say "I don't want to wear one", why not take them anyway? It's their responsibility... I mean... you don't need a license to tow someone around. "no license = no liability"
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Because getting thrown around on a tube going 25+ mph with two people who can smack heads and become unconscious is a far cry from swimming, and here I feel liability plays a major role since I am involved in the action itself by driving them around. I am not involved in their swimming directly so there I can and will only "advise" but not directly involved in their actions. I have a choice of whether to pull them on the tube or not, so I am proactive in the decision making. I do not have a choice of them jumping off the boat to swim or not.

I didnt say "no license=no liability", that was another poster.

And it is "General Bill".
 
I think by now we have drifted off target here. This thread started by posting the tragic news of two teenage boys that have lost their lives because of some very thoughtless boating practices. I mean what happened here goes beyond the “boating with common sense” practice. Maybe it is time for a new thread entitled “Do you boat with common sense?”
 
billandamy said:
"Nah, I dont want to wear one" >Jumps in the water.
Ok captain, whatcha gonna do? Go in and drag him out? Make a big scene? Yell? Curse? Make your own day miserable because he didnt listen? Worry about it? He's an awesome friend except for this one aspect of not wanting to wear a life jacket. :smt001
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Cut the trip short, head to a dock, let them off. If the dock I chose is more than 30 miles away from their home by car, I'll be sure to leave them standing on it with 2 cold ones to enjoy while they wait for the cab.

I printed the news story today. Just this past weekend, we anchored by Hart Miller Island for an hour so that the admiral's 2 kids (boy - 8, girl -10) could take a swim. We were in about 6' of water. Her daughter was complaining that her PFD was riding up under her armpits, making them raw. She asked if she could take it off. We both said "no". Three minutes later, I come up out of the cabin and see her about 10' behind the boat with no PFD. I went to the swim platform and tossed her the PFD. I told her that I would head back to the dock right now if she didn't put it on immediately. That was about 5 1/2 hours before, and about 10 miles away from where this accident happened.

I am going to make them read the article before we leave the dock next time.
 
skibum said:
Cut the trip short, head to a dock, let them off. If the dock I chose is more than 30 miles away from their home by car, I'll be sure to leave them standing on it with 2 cold ones to enjoy while they wait for the cab.

I printed the news story today. Just this past weekend, we anchored by Hart Miller Island for an hour so that the admiral's 2 kids (boy - 8, girl -10) could take a swim. We were in about 6' of water. Her daughter was complaining that her PFD was riding up under her armpits, making them raw. She asked if she could take it off. We both said "no". Three minutes later, I come up out of the cabin and see her about 10' behind the boat with no PFD. I went to the swim platform and tossed her the PFD. I told her that I would head back to the dock right now if she didn't put it on immediately. That was about 5 1/2 hours before, and about 10 miles away from where this accident happened.

I am going to make them read the article before we leave the dock next time.
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Why would ya cut the trip short? If this friend is in every way fun/cool, you enjoy his company, excellent friend, just because he doesnt want to listen ya want to cut ties with him/her for the day? AND ruin your own day by leaving early? F that. Advise, guide, then enjoy yourself knowing you did what you could. If the f'er drowns, then bang out his wife in her sorrow a few weeks later and call it a day.:thumbsup:


Kids dont have a say, they wear pfd's. I dont think anyone here will argue that. They cant make a rational decision/dont know the danger. An adult is far different.

I think this thread has run its course for me. :smt001
 
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