Tragic swimming accident close to home.

[billandamy]

Spoken like someone that has never seen someone drown.

P.S. It's not because I feel I have to protect everyone from themselves while they are on my boat, It's to protect ME. I don't want to ever be put in the position of having to decide to jump in after someone and endanger my life. Even if you know it's not the right thing to jump into a dangerous situation to try and save someone from drowning, I defy anyone to look into the eyes of someone drowning and not jump into the water to try and save them even if it could mean certain death to you.

Sorry, didnt see that PS part, did you add that after the fact?

I understand what you are saying, but here is where you and I may differ.

I feel like I have done my part by explaining to someone they need to wear a pfd. I am not going to argue over it, and not going to play babysitter to an adult. At the point of a refusal to wear one, my responsibility has ended. Anything resulting from that decision is not my fault.

I have 3 kids, thats enough for me to worry about in life. THERE I have say, as I would for any other child. If my borther's 3 kids want to go swimming without a pfd, I draw the line and Ill argue with my brother or any other adult all day until they put one on or we go home.

Adults...nope. I can advise and recommend and hope, but in the end, Im a big personal responsibility guy. You choose to go in at your own risk, Ill go have a drink.

 

[Four Suns]

You choose to go in at your own risk, Ill go have a drink.

And that, my friend, is why you'll lose everything you have in life in a court of law.....

Heck... I'm such an assh0le with life jackets that I make the ADULTS wear them all the time whether they are swimming or taking a dump on the toilet. If you are on my boat, you'll put on a PFD... if you don't, you'll stay at the dock.

 

[gerryb]

Adults...nope. I can advise and recommend and hope, but in the end, Im a big personal responsibility guy. You choose to go in at your own risk, Ill go have a drink.

I guess you're right... plaintiff's attorneys have mouths to feed as well.. some of them might even be SeaRay boat owners...

Seriously, be aware that the current state of tort laws in our country DOES NOT move forward the notion of personal responsibility the way you would like it to.

 

[fc3]

Adults...nope. I can advise and recommend and hope, but in the end, Im a big personal responsibility guy. You choose to go in at your own risk, Ill go have a drink.

And that, my friend, is why you'll lose everything you have in life in a court of law.....

Heck... I'm such an assh0le with life jackets that I make the ADULTS wear them all the time whether they are swimming or taking a dump on the toilet. If you are on my boat, you'll put on a PFD... if you don't, you'll stay at the dock.

I can see both points. I am a big believer in personal responsibility and agree somewhat with Bill. However, since Bill's point of view requires a big gamble on my part, I make inviolate rules as Gary does. Anyone who does not wish to follow my rules can stay on the dock. I'll listen to better ideas that increase safety, but won't agree to anything that compromises it. Anyone who wants to do something silly, idiotic, or efing stupid on a boat can just go and buy his own where he's not, I hope, going to be my problem.

Best regards,
Frank C

 

[Vince_nj1]

And that, my friend, is why you'll lose everything you have in life in a court of law.....

Heck... I'm such an assh0le with life jackets that I make the ADULTS wear them all the time whether they are swimming or taking a dump on the toilet. If you are on my boat, you'll put on a PFD... if you don't, you'll stay at the dock.

Gary,

I know you had a larget toilet installed, but is so big that you need to wear a life vest to take a dump? :grin:

On a serious note, I'm of the opinion that everyone should have a life vest on when swimming. I have expierenced most of the scenarios posted here. I have to confess that I even got caught in currents without a life vest and my friend had to jump in with a life vest to save me. (I didn't make that mistake again)

I'm not as conservative as Gary, but I respect his position. His boat, his rules.

 

[Four Suns]

I just don't want to have my whole afternoon ruined with filling out paper work and doing coast guard interviews why I can't find a body... sheez...

 

[billandamy]

And that, my friend, is why you'll lose everything you have in life in a court of law.....

Heck... I'm such an assh0le with life jackets that I make the ADULTS wear them all the time whether they are swimming or taking a dump on the toilet. If you are on my boat, you'll put on a PFD... if you don't, you'll stay at the dock.

I could worry about thousands of ways in which I could be held liable everyday. Kids come over and jump on our trampoline, people are in our pool continually, they drink at our cabana bar, people play tennis at our house, we go wakeboarding with noobs who have never been on a board before...the list is endless.

I dont worry.

 

[hack4alivin]

It would seem we are drifting off the topic here. Rather that worry about the responsibility afterward I would rather take the preventative measures beforehand.

 

[Turtlesboat]

Well I'm not a life jacket nazi on my boat. After I throw the anchor, I'll hock a luggy into the water to see what the current is like. I then throw out a float line with a life jacket tied to it. I offer life jackets to anyone that wants one. If they don't want to wear it, fine, but they ARE going to take a flotation device of some kind. I've got manual CO2 suspenders, easy to swim in and with a quick pull of the handle they are floating. I have float belts, I have float toys, I have floating noodles, and you can use the life jackets to straddle and float. I've got rafts, tubes etc... NO ONE turns down something to float on, if for nothing else so they can hold a drink in their hand. I have my dinghy ready to go, not to save people although it would help, but to collect all the floaty things and bring them back so people are never without something to float on. If someone has something to float on, in, around, I don't have to worry so much about them getting to the point of needing saving which makes it more enjoyable for me.

In this instance, if the skipper of the boat had thrown out a float line and sent everyone out with say a floating noodle. We wouldn't have read it in the paper.

 

[gerryb]

I'll hock a luggy .

:thumbsup:

Simple and Effective..

 

[chuck1]

In this instance, if the skipper of the boat had thrown out a float line and sent everyone out with say a floating noodle. We wouldn't have read it in the paper.

ding, ding, ding.:thumbsup:
It's all about thinking and planning.

 

[Presentation]

......I make the ADULTS wear them all the time whether they are swimming or taking a dump on the toilet......

Gary, are you saying this for effect or is it what you actually do? We take the jackets off the kids when they take a #2. The little kid’s jackets have a line that runs between their legs. This line would get full of poop. My wife is right there with them and as soon as she is done wiping their bottoms the life jacket goes back on.

 

[Turtlesboat]

But a new rule on my boat this year is, everyone wears a PFD when the engines are running. After the anchor is out, you can take them off. It's funny how I don't even have to ask, I put mine on, point to them without even saying a word. 5 min later, everyone has one on.

 

[Woody]

A while back I wanted to check out a rocky little cove like area to see if I could sneak my boat in. I decided to swim in and look it over. I’ve got a bad knee that can’t be trusted and often acts up when swimming. When it happens that leg is unusable for awhile. I used to be a very good swimmer and would have went without a PFD but times have changed and PFD it is. This was a protected area, wind or waves moving my life jacket wasn’t an issue so when checking something out underwater I would take the PFD off and come back to it when I surfaced. My 27yo nephew wanted to come with me so I told him to grab a life jacket. He refused and said “I can swim and I’m not an old fart like you”. I told him to get a jacket or stay on the boat. I knew he was out of shape and his swimming abilities pretty weak.

Here’s a pic of the “old fart” waiting to drag his sorry butt on the rocks so he can have a rest. Notice he has rolled on his back, mouth open, huffing and puffing, he had no kick left, totally exhausted. Without a PFD he would have been in deep sh-t long before this. I don’t automatically make everyone swim with a PFD. It depends on where we are, who it is, how many, conditions, etc. but when I make my call I insist it’s followed.

 

[MExcelsior]

I personally am not in the habit of consciously having idiots on my boat who will not listen to the Captain. I'm sorry, but if you feel the need to be delicate with your passengers and feel uncomfortable forcing an issue, then by definition you are simply a watercraft owner or operator. By historical definition (certainly not LEGAL), a "Captain" or "Commander/Skipper" is responsible for all aspects of conduct of persons aboard and the vessel itself along with the safety of both. (I don't take the "conduct" too seriously : ), but do take it seriously when safety is involved.)

I think that in short, some don't believe that it is considered an imminent threat to float or swim without a vest and leave it up to the responsibility of the adult swimmer. However, where do you draw the line? Would you handle it differently if someone was "foredeck" sitting with feet hanging while underway WOT.? If they refused, would it simply be "their personal responsibility" that they were turned into ground beef if they slipped?

I've never in 20 years of boating had anyone refuse a request concerning safety aboard my boat.

Grow some and become the captain of your vessel.

 

[tobnpr]

Not debating the use of life jackets at all and, of course, they are required on my boat for children. But I'm not aware of any maritime law or otherwise that specifically charges a "captain" with the legal responsibility for the safety of persons swimming off your boat. Not trying to split hairs here either but how many of us are actually "captains" versus boat owners/operators who may or may not have taken safety courses? I have to imagine being a "captain" requires specific licensure and the operation of specific type of vessel, no?

Is someone aware of such a law or is this simply an unwritten rule you follow?

I agree with this as well.
I would expect that only a licensed captain, on a commercial, for-hire vessel could be held to that high of a standard of care.
I think most of us in conversation on this board when using the word "captain" utilize it in a lighter context, meaning the dude (or dudette) driving the boat- including you or me. But, I'm no lawyer...

I'll add that the argument which says as a boat operatore you're held to higher standard won't hold water. Any of you guys go boating on the weekends? Everyone knows what they're doing? In Florida at least- there is no license required to operate a vessel. No license= no liability.

I'm an ex-lifeguard, water polo player and diver. More at home in the water than dry land. If some guy playing captain demands I put on a life jacket to go over the side, we're gonna find out how well HE can swim...

 

[comsnark]

<<double double post post>>

 

[comsnark]

In Florida at least- there is no license required to operate a vessel. No license= no liability.

Heh. So I guess the huge liability insurance I have on my boat is a waste of money? Let me tell you. . .I am thinking to UP the policy. . not decrease it.

I'm an ex-lifeguard, water polo player and diver. More at home in the water than dry land. If some guy playing captain demands I put on a life jacket to go over the side, we're gonna find out how well HE can swim...

I hate to say it. . .but a guest with that attitude won't be on my boat more than once.

I am pretty sure the owners of other boats on which I am a guest would be the same way.

I've never in 20 years of boating had anyone refuse a request concerning safety aboard my boat.

Grow some and become the captain of your vessel.

I am captain of the vessel. Unfortunately, there is generally an Admiral aboard. That is one guest it is hard to "uninvite".

IIRC, I have only had to stop the engines once (or was it twice?) as we discussed some point of water craft operation. I forget the topic. I think it had to do with a honda generator at the house running while we were sittiing 150' away on the boat. Or perhaps it was the stereo while we were at the fuel dock. . . . Good thing we are past that phase. This weekend we watched a 310DA approach a mooring ball from upwind. While the Admiral was admiring the nice lines of the boat, I scored points by correctly predicting that it was the Starboard (not port) prop that was going to get snagged. . . .

 

[barryg]

Just out of curiosity, what was the water temperature? As it hovers around 80 down here right now, there's no risk of hypothermia, but there are strong tides and even in my favorite lake where we raft up, you can get pulled way away from the boat in a short amount of time if not careful. I always tie lines to the stern and attach floats and lifejackets, and have two types of emergency "throw" sticks just in case..

 

[hack4alivin]

Just out of curiosity, what was the water temperature? As it hovers around 80 down here right now, there's no risk of hypothermia, but there are strong tides and even in my favorite lake where we raft up, you can get pulled way away from the boat in a short amount of time if not careful. I always tie lines to the stern and attach floats and lifejackets, and have two types of emergency "throw" sticks just in case..

75 degress...