Thrusters on a single sterndrive 270/280 Sundancer?

[Kaoru]

I would like to get everyones thoughts, comments, ideas, etc. on installing a bow thruster and a stern thruster on a 2009 270 Sundancer. What I don't want is remarks about how a good/experienced captain doesn't need thrusters. Such remarks only prove one's narrow mindness since situations do exist that even the most experienced captain cannot control. I'm an experienced boater and I'm in such situation which is causing me (on a regular basis when out on the water) stress. The whole point of owning a boat is to 1) use it, and 2) relax while using it. They don't call it pleasure boating for nothing...

So, a little background on my "situation". I was allowed by my Admiral to buy my 270 so that the Admiral can relax (as part of her stress/anxiety treatment). The bigger picture here is that I have to do *everything* with no help (or it may stress the Admiral). In short, when it comes to the launching/docking/operation of the boat, my crew of me, myself, and I is it. Now try to imagine docking stern first (because the Admiral hates walking on the finger dock; feels safer seeing the shore), with 3' clearance to my slip neighbour, with a single sterndrive on a 10,000 lb boat, gusting wind against a full camper, and no one to help with docking/lines/etc. That's my situation and I've managed it so far without fail. However, I'm not getting to enjoy my boat as much as I would like. I even find that my boat is becoming more a dock queen, given the trouble/stress in taking her out.


My answer to this is thrusters. Money is mild concern but pales to the thought of not enjoying my 150K investment (as far as the Admiral is concerned... :lol. So, I've looked at:

• Sideshift external thrusters (sideshift.com) - Affordable, minimal install, and have both bow/stern options. I'm wary on how it would look; a motor sticking out on the bow (on plane)?
• Vetus/Sidepower thrusters - obviously internal requiring expensive installation (and the hardware is $$ too).

For the bow thruster, it's a simple choice between internal or external. External is about $3K , where as internal is $10K (I'm guessing but I know it's not cheap). In either choice, I would put in an appropriate battery, charger (or connection to), and switch/fuses under the forward berth.

It's the stern thruster that's food for thought. The point is that if $10K or less relieves my stress in docking (ie. one man docking in wind and no one to catch the stern) then it's worth it. $10K+ or more, it gets harder to see the value. The other dilemema is how would one install a stern thruster on a transom with a single outdrive; obiouse being in the center is out of the question. Do you need two thrusters/tunnels, ie. port and starboard thrusters; non-reversible, or just one off center?

Thoughts?
Kaoru

 

[jason78]

I would like to get everyones thoughts, comments, ideas, etc. on installing a bow thruster and a stern thruster on a 2009 270 Sundancer. What I don't want is remarks about how a good/experienced captain doesn't need thrusters. Such remarks only prove one's narrow mindness since situations do exist that even the most experienced captain cannot control. I'm an experienced boater and I'm in such situation which is causing me (on a regular basis when out on the water) stress. The whole point of owning a boat is to 1) use it, and 2) relax while using it. They don't call it pleasure boating for nothing...

So, a little background on my "situation". I was allowed by my Admiral to buy my 270 so that the Admiral can relax (as part of her stress/anxiety treatment). The bigger picture here is that I have to do *everything* with no help (or it may stress the Admiral). In short, when it comes to the launching/docking/operation of the boat, my crew of me, myself, and I is it. Now try to imagine docking stern first (because the Admiral hates walking on the finger dock; feels safer seeing the shore), with 3' clearance to my slip neighbour, with a single sterndrive on a 10,000 lb boat, gusting wind against a full camper, and no one to help with docking/lines/etc. That's my situation and I've managed it so far without fail. However, I'm not getting to enjoy my boat as much as I would like. I even find that my boat is becoming more a dock queen, given the trouble/stress in taking her out.

My answer to this is thrusters. Money is mild concern but pales to the thought of not enjoying my 150K investment (as far as the Admiral is concerned... :lol. So, I've looked at:

• Sideshift external thrusters (sideshift.com) - Affordable, minimal install, and have both bow/stern options. I'm wary on how it would look; a motor sticking out on the bow (on plane)?
• Vetus/Sidepower thrusters - obviously internal requiring expensive installation (and the hardware is $$ too).

For the bow thruster, it's a simple choice between internal or external. External is about $3K , where as internal is $10K (I'm guessing but I know it's not cheap). In either choice, I would put in an appropriate battery, charger (or connection to), and switch/fuses under the forward berth.

It's the stern thruster that's food for thought. The point is that if $10K or less relieves my stress in docking (ie. one man docking in wind and no one to catch the stern) then it's worth it. $10K+ or more, it gets harder to see the value. The other dilemema is how would one install a stern thruster on a transom with a single outdrive; obiouse being in the center is out of the question. Do you need two thrusters/tunnels, ie. port and starboard thrusters; non-reversible, or just one off center?

Thoughts?
Kaoru

A friend recently had a Vetus on his 340DA for about $7500 (I think) and that size did not require a battery up front (but they said the next one up would have). That is more than sufficient for his boat. Given that the 340 is significantly larger and heavier, I would think you would be in at around $5,000 (pure guess) if a smaller thruster was available. I think your problem is going to be finding where they can mount the thruster in your V-Berth. I don't know about the 09 270 but I am pretty sure it is basically a 260DA of the year prior which could leave you tight on space to add it.

He asked about a stern thruster when they were there and I think the price for his boat was going to be around $5k. Obviously there is much less work to install the stern thruster.

He used Florida Bow Thrusters so you may want to call someone and get some actual quotes.

Call Sea Ray and make sure you use someone that will not void your hull warranty.

 

[tbirdvet]

I know how you feel about the stress issue. While I have dual drives I still get stressed out on windy days so I had a bow thruster installed and I really like it. My only comment on the external bow thruster would be hitting something and causing damage. I had Florida Bow Thrusters install my Vetus unit and they did a great job. They tied into my stock 4 battery pack. I'm afraid I'm not sure about installing a stern thruster on your single drive boat but I'm sure there may be a way. Perhaps others can comment.

 

[rcknecht]

I think a bow thruster would be sufficient. With an outdirve you can direct your stern thrust as needed. The real trouble is when the wind catches your bow...

 

[Hellman Huddle]

Your comment "Money is mild concern but pales to the thought of not enjoying my 150K investment"

Since when is a boat an investment?

If your having trouble docking, maybe you need some training. Not being a smart azzzzz, but a boat that size shouldn't be an issue. I know you didn't want to hear this but somebody wa going to chime in, so I guess I'll be the bad guy. I HATE TO SEE YOU SPEND ALL THAT MONEY THAT A LITTLE TRAINING CAN TAKE CARE OF.There are some great dock hands at marinas and for 50 bucks they will coach you up. The first thing when docking is to know which way the current is flowing and the wind, most of the time you can let the elements do it for you. Don't be shy get some help.
Good Luck! :thumbsup:

 

[Kaoru]

I think a bow thruster would be sufficient. With an outdirve you can direct your stern thrust as needed. The real trouble is when the wind catches your bow...

Backing into my slip, when a fellow boater is helping, the first line to go on is the stern. This does leave the bow vunerable to a gust of wind for a short time. It's only vunerable until the helping hand positions boat where I can use the outdrive to spring in the bow. In this scenario, a bow thruster would work great as the thruster can counter the wind catching the bow; with the stern kept at station (via the helping hand/line) until the bow line is done.

However, when there is no line (no helping hand) there's no well defined turning point on a single outdrive (on twins you have more options in directing thrust). In close quarters, the outdrive is too slow react/counter any wind/current. I'm at the wind's mercy. React to slowly and I'm hitting my neighbour. A gust of wind when I'm away from the helm, I'm hitting my neighbour. Actually, in this scenario a bow thruster may cause more problems. My response when I lose the bow, stern, or both is to quickly power out of the slip and try again. But if I'm using a bow thruster to correct and not exiting the slip, my stern might end up into my neighbour boat. That's why I see the necessity of a stern thruster.

I've only gotten by so far by reading the wind and trying to take advantage of it; which I consider to be an artform. Docking this way is hard, lots of variables to consider, and the consequences expensive.

Cheers,
Kaoru

 

[David Paul]

Sea Ray offers a factory installed bow thruster on the current 2011 280DA (the same boat as your 270DA). The list price they show on their pricing site is $5917. So it is do-able and I am sure a call to Sea Ray will get you all the answers you need. The stern thruster should be a much simpler install.

 

[Great lakes pirate]

Yeah docking can be a "exciting event" sometimes. Have you considered keeping your boat in a more friendly slip? I have seen people use 2" X 6" cheater boards strung accross their piles to help them get into the slip and not hit the neighbors.

 

[Tonka Boater]

Last September I got a quote from Nationwide Bow Thrusters for $6500 for my '08 280. The quote included the following:

SE40 Thruster Motor (88lb thrust, 3hp)
5 inch Fiberglass Tube
Single Joystick
Wire Harness
Battery Disconnect Switch
Fuse Holder & Fuse
Wireless Remote (free)
Complete installation out the door is $6500.00

 

[Kaoru]

Your comment "Money is mild concern but pales to the thought of not enjoying my 150K investment"

Since when is a boat an investment?

Ssshhh! Don't let the Admiral hear you... She thinks it'll grow in value. :lol: I should have completed that sentence with "150K investment in my happiness"; my happiness being stress free.

If your having trouble docking, maybe you need some training. Not being a smart azzzzz, but a boat that size shouldn't be an issue. I know you didn't want to hear this but somebody wa going to chime in, so I guess I'll be the bad guy. I HATE TO SEE YOU SPEND ALL THAT MONEY THAT A LITTLE TRAINING CAN TAKE CARE OF.There are some great dock hands at marinas and for 50 bucks they will coach you up. The first thing when docking is to know which way the current is flowing and the wind, most of the time you can let the elements do it for you. Don't be shy get some help.
Good Luck! :thumbsup:

I agree that someone was going to chime in with that advice and you got first post! :smt038

For everyone's information, experience in seamanship, docking, etc. is what I'm NOT lacking. I've docked my boat in high winds, in my slip, with my slip neighbour's inflatable outboard skeg sticking 2' into the 3' buffer ready for gelcoat damage, at night, and with NO help. Training is not the issue, it's the STRESS (and the risk/consequences) if my docking ballet doesn't go to plan. (AND it doesn't matter how experienced you are; sometimes the situation SUCKS) Well, I bought the boat to relax. I'm not going quibble over money when I can remove myself from said situation and actually have stress free docking; just by buying thrusters.

It's like having a fire extinguisher in the house. You can go for decades without using it, but it only takes one unforeseen situation to justify its need. No amount of fire safety training can replace an extinguisher nor will it remove the worry/stress of your house possibly burning down (with $$ consequences; unless your oblivious to the dangers in the common household).

Cheers,
Kaoru

 

[Kaoru]

Sea Ray offers a factory installed bow thruster on the current 2011 280DA (the same boat as your 270DA). The list price they show on their pricing site is $5917. So it is do-able and I am sure a call to Sea Ray will get you all the answers you need. The stern thruster should be a much simpler install.

Actually, a bow thruster is an option on the 2009 270DAs as I found out on CSR. It's nice to know the OEM's price for the option. Obviously, it's going to cost me more but it gives me a baseline to determine what is too expensive and what is reasonable. That's the bow thruster... supposedly the stern thruster is cheaper to install. However, I have the extra kink of having a single outdrive in the centre of my transom. What's the in & outs of that type of install?

Kaoru

 

[Hellman Huddle]

Ssshhh! Don't let the Admiral hear you... She thinks it'll grow in value. :lol: I should have completed that sentence with "150K investment in my happiness"; my happiness being stress free.

I agree that someone was going to chime in with that advice and you got first post! :smt038

For everyone's information, experience in seamanship, docking, etc. is what I'm NOT lacking. I've docked my boat in high winds, in my slip, with my slip neighbour's inflatable outboard skeg sticking 2' into the 3' buffer ready for gelcoat damage, at night, and with NO help. Training is not the issue, it's the STRESS (and the risk/consequences) if my docking ballet doesn't go to plan. (AND it doesn't matter how experienced you are; sometimes the situation SUCKS) Well, I bought the boat to relax. I'm not going quibble over money when I can remove myself from said situation and actually have stress free docking; just by buying thrusters.

It's like having a fire extinguisher in the house. You can go for decades without using it, but it only takes one unforeseen situation to justify its need. No amount of fire safety training can replace an extinguisher nor will it remove the worry/stress of your house possibly burning down (with $$ consequences; unless your oblivious to the dangers in the common household).

Cheers,
Kaoru

If money is not a problem then do it! But, docking is only a small part of what we do. In all my experiences, everybody knows docking can be tricky, that is why we have insurance. Everywhere I go, boaters and dock hands are always willing to help. I have come into some places and yelled to the dock and people will come help. If there is nobody there to help, then you don't have to worry about being embarressed and you can crash into whatever! :smt038

 

[jason78]

If you think you will have to continue to operate the boat without assistance and have any thought of upgrading in the next few years it may be worth just looking at a Twin Engine boat with Axius such as a 2009 310DA or something similiar as a possible option. That sounds like what you really want and it may be a better solution than all the thrusters if you think you will upgrade anyway. Just a suggestion.

I still stand by my earlier statement- If you get someone to install a Bow Thurster make sure it will not void your hull warranty.

 

[dpmulvey]

Personally, I would go for the externals as a first run. I have looked at them for Saint Max. Some of my weekend retreats have a constant wind tide problem. Plus they are much cheaper. It's a pretty straightforward DIY (maybe the admiral would even enjoy helping!) and it gives you a sense of need vs. want at a lower price and for the sake of argument, no commitment (no tunnel in the hull).

Additionally, the external changes the pivot point in a positive aspect for the captain. If you truly like the setup, you can then opt for a built in bow and external stern.

Have you looked at water jets as a thruster option? Very little noise and more efficient to boot.

Good Luck. Keep us posted.

 

[C-SIDE]

waste of money. You'll be fine after a few times, all you need to do is build some confidence.

Maybe you'll luck out and have great dockmates who can help you when you come in - either way, I think you'll be fine

 

[Ididntdoit]

I hear ya on the thruster - I'm finally having mine installed in March.....as for the stern if your heart is set on one there is one (I forget the name) that looks like a small pod (it is entirely self contained) it looks like a quality unit (not like side shift) - it installs with a 2" hole saw - I would think offset on the transom would be fine just make sure the "thrust" is directed under the i/o transom assembly or it will affect thruster performance - i think the unit costs about 2k installation should be far far less than the bow thruster

 

[FireIsland1]

The bow is always the trouble maker on express boats. very shallow entry, and not much weight. I have seen the best of Captains get in a little trouble with that set up. and even if they make it looks easy you know his pulse is over 70 per minute. A bow thruster should be all you need. the stern with practice should take care of itself. You may think you need a stern unit because you are trying hard to control the bow with your drive. that is putting your stern where it shouldn't be. if you had a bow thruster to nudge you over when needed you would have your drive in the proper orientation to slide right in.

spend your money on a good bow thruster , use it for a season. That should solve your docking problems.
I don't have a thruster, my boat handles great and i usually never have a problem. BUT if there were two boats for sale, I want the one with a thruster.

If you install the bow thruster and still have problems then professional help may be needed. Your right you should be able to enjoy your boat if adding 10% to your makes you more comfortable then go for it. Remember when you go to sell the thruster boat sells first

 

[tbirdvet]

I would do the bow thruster first and see how it goes. You can add the stern thruster later if required.

 

[Big Island Lifer]

Any chance you can move to a slip on the end of your dock. May help your stress level without spending a ton o money.

 

[Gofirstclass]

Kaoru, have you considered changing your boat for one about the same size with twin engines? I feel your pain with having twins, but I will say that a thruster is not the cure-all to wind and current problems when docking.

I had a thruster installed on my 550 (350 ft lbs) and I find I use it a lot less than I thought I would. The reason is the twin engines. I use the thruster more for holding the boat against the wall of a lock while we're getting tied up than I do for docking.