So Packer... what country on this planet is better? Which one do you see "working" and a model for our country? Inquiring minds want to know.
The REAL WAR we are fighting (and losing)
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So Packer... what country on this planet is better? Which one do you see "working" and a model for our country? Inquiring minds want to know.
Pack66Dad
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That is just so damn condescending and simplistic I don't think it even bears consideration... good gawd!
So you can't point to a country or form of government on this planet that you like? You just don't like this one?
skibum
Well-Known Member
None of what he is saying makes a damn bit of sense unless you believe that there is a fixed amount of income to be had. They had to take over the education system and sucessfully dumb down the population in order to get them to believe this dribble.
Pack, I think you drank the Kool Aid and ate the paper cup.
Pack, I think you drank the Kool Aid and ate the paper cup.
Au Contraire,
You are proposing to redistribute wealth, plain and simple. Cite another country or form of government where this has worked and provided a better way of life for the majority than here in the United States? If you want an objective measure, I believe there are about 50-60 million boat owners here in the United States which is close to 20% of the population. What form of government through wealth distribution has created a more pervasive level of boat ownership on a percentage of population basis?
VTSeaRay
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When you head to Cuba, please, please, please take Bernie with you.... he can be your cabana boy. (and don't forget to give him half of whatever $$ you have - it's only fair to both of you)
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Exactly. These idiots spout off stuff like "The top 1% of the population took 23% of the country's income." The country doesn't have "income". The country doesn't own "income." And believe it or not, "income" is not a fixed quantity. They spout this stuff off like the top "grabbed" the income from the lower end of the pay scale... it's just absurd. If you want more income, go get it. Nothing is stopping you and you are not stealing it from anyone. Go open a business or two... become a CEO... great fun... Maybe you can upgrade to a bigger dog and get some more Christmas tree lights for your boat.
This reminds me of something as an example here. I used to be the finance chair of an education foundation for a University. We had a lot of scholarships available from people that would create scholarships in the name of their dead pet and other stuff. About half of them went unanswered. That's right... Families that put these scholarships out there would typically have a basic requirement to write an essay and half of them would have no applicants. My wife is a teacher at a high school and the problem is that students tell her it's too much trouble to write essays for scholarships... Mom and dad and the government can pay for it. Parents don't even know about these unanswered scholarships at the schools and the kids don't tell them. There is absolutely no reason kids can't get money for school. My oldest son got a full scholarship to college and I had people tell me it wasn't fair because I could afford to pay for it. Bullsh!t. He filled out all the paperwork, applied for many scholarships and got one. What is "not fair" about that. He found an opportunity and grabbed it.
If I grow twice as much corn in my backyard than my neighbor, why do I have to give him corn to make us even? How did my "greed" for corn hurt him?
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I am not a fan of welfare. We do have a serious problem in this country in that many are not willing to WORK for results.
But that does not mean there isn't a problem on the other end: Those that are willing and able to work have an issue as well: They are competing for jobs against those willing to work for pennies per day.
They are not DIRECTLY competing, but the basic calculus of many business's I see is "Why pay $20/hr for factory workers HERE, when I can pay $2/yr for factory workers in China?"
Now the problem for the hard working individual here is that $20/hr doesn't really equate to a high standard of living in American terms. . . and they certainly can't live on say. . $4/hr. But there are plenty of Chinese willing to work for $2/hr and make a decent living. As I see it, the logical conclusion is that American manufacturing will continue to sink into the toilet until Chinese and American wages equalize.
And don't give me the standard B.S. line about Unions. . .Union jobs were first -> but white collar non-union jobs are now beginning to transition as well. The only thing that is slowing *engineering* from moving oversees is related to *quality issues* -> which many companies are trying to rectify to enable shipping white collar $100K/yr jobs overseas.
Don't ask me what the answer is. . I don't know. But there is definately a problem out there.
I guess the answer is as Four Suns suggests: Become a CEO. Everyone can do it. If you can't that's your own problem. . .
But that does not mean there isn't a problem on the other end: Those that are willing and able to work have an issue as well: They are competing for jobs against those willing to work for pennies per day.
They are not DIRECTLY competing, but the basic calculus of many business's I see is "Why pay $20/hr for factory workers HERE, when I can pay $2/yr for factory workers in China?"
Now the problem for the hard working individual here is that $20/hr doesn't really equate to a high standard of living in American terms. . . and they certainly can't live on say. . $4/hr. But there are plenty of Chinese willing to work for $2/hr and make a decent living. As I see it, the logical conclusion is that American manufacturing will continue to sink into the toilet until Chinese and American wages equalize.
And don't give me the standard B.S. line about Unions. . .Union jobs were first -> but white collar non-union jobs are now beginning to transition as well. The only thing that is slowing *engineering* from moving oversees is related to *quality issues* -> which many companies are trying to rectify to enable shipping white collar $100K/yr jobs overseas.
Don't ask me what the answer is. . I don't know. But there is definately a problem out there.
I guess the answer is as Four Suns suggests: Become a CEO. Everyone can do it. If you can't that's your own problem. . .
Where does my post suggest I am addressing you? A bit presumptuous, aren't we? And come on...."jackwad"...I would think even you could do better.
Look cornpop. If you need help go here:
http://www.legalzoom.com/
99 bucks and you're a CEO. Oh yeah... you'll have to build a company too... or you can work for $20/hour for someone else and ***** about it. Pick one... and do it. and don't punish people that spent the 99 bucks at legalzoom.
Great link... I like this:
Dr. Rossiter says the liberal agenda preys on weakness and feelings of inferiority in the population by:
- creating and reinforcing perceptions of victimization;
- satisfying infantile claims to entitlement, indulgence and compensation;
- augmenting primitive feelings of envy;
- rejecting the sovereignty of the individual, subordinating him to the will of the government.
skibum
Well-Known Member
Chinese copmpanies don't have the EPA, Social Security, labor unions, or high corporate taxes to deal with. So, they can use their $2 labor to make the product, pay $13 to send it over here, and make $7.
US companies have to deal with the EPA, Social Security, labor unions, government regulations, and high corporate taxes, it costs $19 to make the product here and the company only makes $1 each.
If YOU were starting a company of your own, what would you do? Build a factory so you could earn $1 per unit, or pay someone in China to make it so you can earn $7 a unit?
Come on, man... Can't you see that we are forcing companies to do this?
skibum
Well-Known Member
And why doesn't $20/hr go very far in the US?
Because of all of the taxes, labor costs, and regulatory costs built into everything that we buy.
Ya'll just don't get it. :huh:
If I open a business... MY business... and I draw $1,000,000/year and pay 1000 people $12/hour, what's wrong with that? Let's say I have a business of growing earthworms in garbage and collect their poop and bag it up and sell it on the Internet for $50/bag to all the dumbsh!t greenies/tree huggers out there and all my employees just bag and ship earthworm sh!t all day... Why does the government say I should pay them more? Because I'm making too much? Huh? If you don't want the $12/hour sh!t job, go somewhere else and work... I'll hire your moo-moo wearing wives instead.
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Pack, after seeing your posts here, and in other threads, I gotta say.... You have issues..... Especially after you even went so far as to erase your posts from other threads? Shame shame.... You don't stand behind your words? Why would anyone here bother listening to your drivel if your just going to run from the thread(s)? I forgot, your a lib.... That's an automatic disability under the Obama Health care Plan, right?
OK, I am done venting on this jackwad.... lol
OK, I am done venting on this jackwad.... lol
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spoken like someone that's never been to China. Do you know what $2/hour buys in China??? the same thing it buys here. In fact I would rather make $2/hour here than in China. Here I get housing, food, healthcare, education, government checks, Transportation... Hell I can garbage pick and earn more than Chinese workers AND live better.
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Of course! On this point you and I are fully agreed.
My company is non-union. We now have outsourced our non-union IT to Mexico. Our *Human Resources* group was partially outsourced.
The only groups that are NOT being seeing outsource pressure are Executive, legal, and tax groups.
Yes you would. This is a great country in which to own a buisness. You just want to have all your manufacturing and labor overseas.
Argh! And just when I was ready to open a beer!
While those factors exist. . .I don't buy that completely. There is another factor: People here have bigger houses. Cell phones. Big TV's with Satallite service. Health care. Don't tell me that people here don't live better than in other places. . they do.
Even if you took out all the regulatory stuff. . you would find two things;
1) Prices for most things are market driven: Reducing production costs would result in increased profit; not reduced consumer cost. Think of it this way: If you cost for a $20 item dropped from $19 to $1. . .
and you wanted to pass savings on to the consumer. . would you try to charge $2. . .or $18 (or $21 if you could get away with it?)
2) Even if the price of everything dropped radically because some waved a magic anti-regulation wand. . .people far away don't have the 2.4 kids with 4 cars in the driveway and the 2500 sq ft house with full medical coverage. American labor would always cost more.
Nothing wrong with that. And you should keep your money. Just deduct some to fund the police, military, and pave the roads. As I said above; I am not a fan of welfare and SS.
BUT. . the point I raised early is just like not everyone can be a rock star; not everyone can open a business and hire 1000 people.
AND. . most people who open a business will hire 1400 people in Korea, China, India, or vietnam instead of 1000 in the U.S. -> if they could.
That is a bit of a problem on the Macro level. . isn't it?
Pack66Dad
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Name calling and talking points is all you have..... weak
I have read through this thread and its appalling. The total lack decency, and civility is shocking. I think its shameful and cowardly the way many of the people on this board use their "internet anonymity" to say things and make accusations that they would never dare say to my face.
I have met some very nice people on this board and I have been helped with boating issues by many members. That part of the board is wonderful. This constant sniping at every junction by a few childish bullies is really getting out of hand and IMHO should be condemned by the CSR community, not encouraged.
wish2fish
Active Member
What did you expect when you post a thread like this? :huh:
You mention talking points but you are doing the exact same thing. Your talking points are coming from MSNBC, Air America, Sirius Left!!!
wish2fish
Active Member
See, here is an example where you try to be the victim but below shows that you do the same thing by calling someone a name. At least do it in different threads.
