The bid stops

Scott is right about the whole Internet thing. When I was selling the 320 I had a few issues that I posted and the buyer saw them. Also, when my friend was buying his 460DA I told him to look here to see the history. The PO posted some problems asking for solutions and my friend was able to verify the issues with the surveyor. He negotiated the price accordingly...
 
Lord Farringdon said:
The broker should certainly be working hard (in his own interests) to make this happen. If he hasn't already made the seller aware of this then he should consider another line of business. But, have we considered the possibility that the seller has stopped negotiating on the basis there is another buyer out there that the broker has now presented as a better bid?
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I would hope the broker already brought that up but you'd be surprised how many dont, both in boating and realstate. As Ronald Reagan would say, "trust but verify." I figured there may be another offer but even still, that should be yet another negotiating tool the broker should use with/against the OP; you never just out and out cease negotiations unless its just a rediculous lowball offer of course. You tell the other prospective buyer, heh, we have another guy... Its fairly cliche, we've all heard that line, but it must work to some degree because, well, we've all heard it. Just my take on it.
 
gregkjones said:
My take on this is the seller doesnt want to sell THAT much if you are within 6K or so. Yeah the buyer can come up 6K "if it isnt that big a deal" but what I think alot of sellers forget is the buyer isnt saddled with carrying costs while he looks for boats. That is in stark contrast to the seller, who could be spending thousands a month to hang on to the boat while he haggles over a few thousand dollars. Here in Cali, slips in Newport Beach for a boat that size are going for $1300/month easily. Add to that insurance and maintenance and you could end up losing alot of money trying to eek out that last few thousand from a buyer. I know when it comes time to sell my boat I will fire sell it before I sit around and haggle for 6 months in an
attempt to save what will amount to almost nothing when its all said and done. Perhaps the OP should bring up the issue of
carrying costs to the broker, who could then talk to the seller and convince him that the difference in money isnt too bad if he can
unload the boat quickly. I know this issue is brought up in realstate all the time and it works if the subject is brought up
respectfully and carefully.
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Bingo! Thanks Greg, at least I'm not the only one!
 
Russ Calasant said:
Yeah, thanks for that. It may appear that way and I may even think I like the "game" but when I am there I do not. Unfortunately I find myself in negotiations a lot, I negotiate million dollar futures contracts for a living and I can't negotiate a $200k boat deal! Then again one is the only reason for the other!
Valuable perspective, thanks.
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Russ, you know million dollar gas futures are easier to negotiate because NG is a very liquid market with many public points of reference that both buyer and seller rely upon. Boats...not so much. Good luck on both sides of the deal, I hope to find myself there in a few weeks as well.
 
sfergson727 said:
I'm not trying to be a prick here, but I am trying to get you to see if from the seller's side. Perhaps he doesn't want to keep reducing his price in corresponding increments until you two meet in the middle, nor should you feel he has to. Bottom line, if he doesn't come down and you don't come up, the boat doesn't sell to you. I'm not even sure why you started this thread...how do you know the owner of the boat doesn't lurk here? If I were in the process of buying a boat, the last thing I would do is go on some internet forum and complain because the seller isn't discounting the price enough for you.

Good luck to you in your quest for a bigger boat, in today's climate, it's good to see that you are still willing to invest in boating. (invest may not be the right word, but kudos regardless)
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Lol, I don't think you are being a prick but we can only assume what the sellers side is, no one knows. But now I have several options, thanks to you all. I never felt the owner should have done anything, again, was just surprised when he didn't. I'm pretty clear on the fact that if we don't agree there is no sale, thanks. I hope he does lurk here, I would love to communicate with him but it does not matter, as far as I am concerned it is over. If he instigates communication, great, if this thread does- even better! I am not complaining about the seller not discounting the price enough (is this what you meant by being a prick?!)- wait! Are you the seller Scott??!! Just kidding, no I'm not complaining. I will explain, for the last time, I was attempting to explain a situation and asking for others perspective and input, thats all. A little outside perspective, constructive communication, help from a group that loves boating and SR as much as I do. I'm sure you are well intended so keep bringing it, I can take it!
 
bmac said:
Russ, you know million dollar gas futures are easier to negotiate because NG is a very liquid market with many public points of reference that both buyer and seller rely upon. Boats...not so much. Good luck on both sides of the deal, I hope to find myself there in a few weeks as well.
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Lol, you are absolutely correct Sir and it's OPM! I hope things go well for you too, Happy New Year!
 
Russ - I didn't read all of the posts in your thread, but maybe the seller is the type of person that just does not like to go back and forth too many times. Personally, I will counter-offer a time or two, but after that I am usually done. Could that be it?
 
bmac said:
Russ, you know million dollar gas futures are easier to negotiate because NG is a very liquid market with many public points of reference that both buyer and seller rely upon. Boats...not so much. Good luck on both sides of the deal, I hope to find myself there in a few weeks as well.
Click to expand...

Russ Calasant said:
Lol, you are absolutely correct Sir and it's OPM! I hope things go well for you too, Happy New Year!
Click to expand...

It is always easier to negotiate unemotional transactions. In negotiations like this the brokers often feel like a Psychologist counseling not sales people. :smt043 MM
 
If you know the boat name, you can find the sellers info.

It may irritate him or the brokers but you can figure that out pretty easy with a search of the documentation (if it's USCG documented).
 
330DA said:
Russ - I didn't read all of the posts in your thread, but maybe the seller is the type of person that just does not like to go back and forth too many times. Personally, I will counter-offer a time or two, but after that I am usually done. Could that be it?
Click to expand...

It certainly could, I suppose I never considered that at the time but it's possible. Thanks to these responses the are several plausible reasons that did not seem reasonable but now do. Thank you.
 
Russ Calasant said:
Doug, im not sure what you are referring to with Dale and as I have said I am not concerned with the sale of my boat. Although some of this info helps when I do sell her this is about me buying a boat not selling.
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I guess I was trying to get you to look at the sale of this new boat from the seller side. In the case of you 370, Dale made several comments that he was interested in it. You countered with something to effect that you weren't interested in selling at a 'fire sale price'. To me that tells me you're going to ask top dollar for your boat. My assumption was confirmed when you said you would put the boat on the market in the $89 - $109k range. Then when Caver showed asking/selling prices of 370's, it also reaffirmed to me that you were asking top dollar. So hypothetically speaking... you ask $89-$109k and in the mean time you purchase the new boat. Now you sit on your 370 for a year and continue to realize depreciation cost and carrying cost all the while using your new boat. If you would have had a more reasonable asking price initially, it would have sold faster. You'll probably spend more than the $6k that you're apart on the new boat. Again, my post was for you to just look at the new boat sale from both sides of the envelope.

Doug
 
When my daughter was 21 she had just finished university and wanted to buy a house. I found one for 174,900. It was a good deal but the seller would have taken a bit less. She hummed and howed for a couple of week and by the time she was ready to put an offer on it there were 3 others. I told her to offer 175,000. She got it.
The point is if you find what you want and wait too long you will loose it or land up paying more than you should have.
I do not know your boating requirments but a 37 footer is a good size boat to learn what you realy want. We had a 28 footer for 5 years and it taught us what we realy wanted in a boat. As the admiral says it was a good learner boat. After 6 years the 38 footer is a bit big for us. There seems to be no perfect boat.
 
Some really good advise in this thread here, I think you are definitely on the right track and I hope another boat comes along thats even nicer or this guy comes and meets you in the middle!
 
northern said:
When my daughter was 21 she had just finished university and wanted to buy a house. I found one for 174,900. It was a good deal but the seller would have taken a bit less. She hummed and howed for a couple of week and by the time she was ready to put an offer on it there were 3 others. I told her to offer 175,000. She got it.
The point is if you find what you want and wait too long you will loose it or land up paying more than you should have.
Click to expand...

Heh. Well. . .if she put in her offer *early*, then the agent/seller would have tried to sit on it until the other offers were on the table. . . and she would not have realized that she had to put in an asking price bid to make the deal.

Sometimes, to get what you want, you have to *pay*.

On my SeaRay, I bid under the asking price, but it was still an "above market" offer. It was late Spring -> it was worth leaving a few grand on the table to *GET THE BOAT TO THE DOCK*. Heck. .. I even politely informed the Seller of my intended offer value before I gave the formal offer to the broker. That way, the broker was able to tell me "Yes" as I signed the offer, and we were able to confirm the survey arrangements that very hour.
 
Russ,

I think there’s something missing in your calculations not in terms of the numbers (as you said you’ll need $30K for this 460 to get her where you want it), but in terms of expectation. Let’s say your wish list includes hydraulic lift, KVH with upgraded TVs, upgraded electronics here’s what I mean:
  1. You’re looking at 1998-2001 boats. 90% or greater of them will not have all the things from your wish list. This is where you’ll have to prioritize. I always focus on big ticket items like the lift, bow thruster (only if you need it), KVH, etc. All other items are cheaper and can be done in time at your own pace with proper research.
  2. You (just like any of us) want to find best maintained boat with all the items on your wish list. It’s all possible but not at the bargain price. The boats that are meeting your wish list and well maintained will have MUCH higher price tag and most likely won’t even make it your list of prospected boats to look at.
  3. I think it’s fair to say that your total wish list adds up to over $30K (lift $15K, KVH with TVs $5K-$7K, upgraded electronics $6K-$8K). Considering my point in paragraph #1 it sounds like the boats that priced well within your range will not have most of the things from your list, which means that anytime you’re looking at a nice and clean boat will require around $20K or so to fulfill your wish list. This is somewhat the case with the current 460, but she has all big ticket items. The situation will not change much when you go to 450 or 410. You expand your options, but the basic issue will remain with most of them.
  4. Anytime we’re shopping with limited budget there are compromises that have to take place. The question is what compromises make most sense to you, the hull size (going for cheaper or newer 410 for the same money as older 460), the design and layout (going for similar priced 450)? You have your reasons why 460 tops your list, thus IMO, I have no idea what kind of 410 you’ll need to find to justify loosing nice 460 over $6K.
From what I see, the hydraulic lift makes a huge difference in terms how big or how small your list of prospected boats will be, b/c most boats don’t have it. It’s a very nice option, but also very expensive one. If you don’t get it now I’m willing to bet that you won’t justify the expense on installing one later for $15k-$20K. So, if you really want it then we’re looking at a very short list of boats that may have other items from your list like KVH with upgraded TVs, upgraded electronics, etc. In this example you can see how giving up the lift you potentially can gain a lot. But, saving money not necessary means that you’ll be 100% happy. This is why it’s important to have prioritized wish list and know what you’re willing to compromise.


If this 460 is very well maintained, very clean, has a lift and at least one or two other items from your list (upgraded TVs or KVH or upgraded electronics) it sounds like she’s very close to the one to make you a happy man.


I hope this doesn't make it more confusing.
 
gregkjones said:
My take on this is the seller doesnt want to sell THAT much if you are within 6K or so. Yeah the buyer can come up 6K "if it isnt that big a deal" but what I think alot of sellers forget is the buyer isnt saddled with carrying costs while he looks for boats. That is in stark contrast to the seller, who could be spending thousands a month to hang on to the boat while he haggles over a few thousand dollars. Here in Cali, slips in Newport Beach for a boat that size are going for $1300/month easily. Add to that insurance and maintenance and you could end up losing alot of money trying to eek out that last few thousand from a buyer. I know when it comes time to sell my boat I will fire sell it before I sit around and haggle for 6 months in an attempt to save what will amount to almost nothing when its all said and done. Perhaps the OP should bring up the issue of carrying costs to the broker, who could then talk to the seller and convince him that the difference in money isnt too bad if he can unload the boat quickly. I know this issue is brought up in realstate all the time and it works if the subject is brought up respectfully and carefully.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more, but some sellers don't use logic. They just dig their heels in. When I was negotiating on my current boat, I almost purchased a different one. We were off by about $10K. The boat had been on the market for 6 months already. I put together a spreadsheet showing the owner the cost of keeping the boat for another 6 months (or what it had cost him to keep it the current 6 months). My estimate was around $14K. I was conservative and showed him $10K to $11K. He still wouldn't budge. I bought another boat instead.
 
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