The bid stops

[Russ Calasant]

Well, I spent the last two weeks in a bidding tennis match going back and forth. Quite painful actually. I wish I had good news to report but the owner has stopped and refused to go any lower. We ended up $12k apart on a high six figure number. I came half way and offered $6k more and he is staying at his previous number, now $6k away from my last offer. His broker suggested I wait for winter to settle in. I cannot extend my self any further. I suppose there is not much else I can do but keep looking, this is not all fun. He has dropped 10-11% from asking price and it was a fair starting price. In this climate I expected more flexibility, I guess you never know the circumstance. Is 15-16% too much to ask? Or did I just answer my own question!? Did I miss anything?

 

[moparlvr4406]

something is only worth...
#1 what someone else will give for it
#2 what the owner will take for it

sorry this one didn't work out for ya but it's probably for the best
if it is extending you that far...who knows what next year will bring

 

[Russ Calasant]

something is only worth...
#1 what someone else will give for it
#2 what the owner will take for it

sorry this one didn't work out for ya but it's probably for the best
if it is extending you that far...who knows what next year will bring

That's true, thank you

 

[Carver370]

I think this has been the norm in my experience this season. I haven't sold a boat yet for over 9-10% off asking price. Sellers hold firm and buyers are becoming more realistic, the majority of sales I have been involved with have been more in the 5-8% off asking price in my area.

I believe the days of stealing something are few and far between, at least for a well maintained straight boat that hasn't been molested.

Not to sound like a salesman, but if it is the boat that you actually want to own, 6K in the grand scheme of things doesn't equate to much.

Does the seller have anything else he can throw in that may be of further value to you so you can justify the added expense?
Is the boat full of fuel?
Does the boat need anything replaced?
Is this still a 460 DA or something else?

I have seen both sellers and buyers come regret some decisions on purchasing or selling when it comes to numbers, there have been buyers who wish they would have come up the little bit extra and a lot of sellers who wish they would have been a little more flexible when it comes to accepting an offer.

Generally if you are within 10K of each other on a 100K plus boat something is usually worked out in some way or another, at least in my past experience.

 

[Dani-Lu]

If you are at your ceiling and the seller is at his basement price, then you have 2 options, and you know what they are. Personally, if we are talking about a 150k+ boat, I can't believe 6k sends you into the poor house. If it does, then you may want to buy less of a boat for a lot less than the 6k difference, or keep your beautiful boat. Please don't misread this as me trying to be a wise-ass. If the boat is exactly what you want and in phenomenal shape and at a good price, then buy the boat! Or maybe it becomes the best deal you never did because something better comes along this winter. You know as well as I do, 6k does not change anything when you own a boat. We're talking a prop or two, or having a diesel guy spend a couple of days working on an engine. Good luck!

 

[Russ Calasant]

If the seller has a bottom line, that is it. To expect him to go below his bottom line just because of the climate is not realistic. He's made up his mind, it's probably time for you to either ante up or go look for a new boat to make an offer on. There's some saying about squeezing blood from a turnip keeps coming to mind.

You say that the asking price is reasonable, so why should the seller give up another 6K? A lot of times, sellers price their boats aggressively to give a good deal so it moves, they shouldn't be expected to whack even more off the top just because people se
to think they should automatically get x% off the asking price. This is exactly why my boat's asking price is $329K.....

I disagree but appreciate your point of view. In my view the climate is the market and it's unrealistic to expect him not to consider the market. I am also selling a boat and I can tell you from my experience buyers are considering the economy. I also did my homework and have seen selling prices averaging 15-20% below asking. Which of course is not a clear indicator of this particular buyer but also may or may not be the norm which is what I am trying to determine. Didn't the blood from a turnip saying come from a money situation (law suit), or blood from a stone - something he doesn't have? Maybe he can't go lower- is that what you are saying?
I did say it was a reasonable asking price but didn't say it was what I am willing to pay, it was a good place to start. I am not automatically assuming he would wack off a certain percentage. However when you engage in a two week negotiation, knowing both of the starting points, it's not difficult to figure out where the middle is. If that was unacceptable why continue?

 

[douglee25]

I think the boat gods are trying to tell you something... You just got your 370 this past season. Save your money and enjoy it for a little while longer before moving up.

Doug

 

[Russ Calasant]

I think this has been the norm in my experience this season. I haven't sold a boat yet for over 9-10% off asking price. Sellers hold firm and buyers are becoming more realistic, the majority of sales I have been involved with have been more in the 5-8% off asking price in my area.

I believe the days of stealing something are few and far between, at least for a well maintained straight boat that hasn't been molested.

Not to sound like a salesman, but if it is the boat that you actually want to own, 6K in the grand scheme of things doesn't equate to much.

Does the seller have anything else he can throw in that may be of further value to you so you can justify the added expense?
Is the boat full of fuel?
Does the boat need anything replaced?
Is this still a 460 DA or something else?

I have seen both sellers and buyers come regret some decisions on purchasing or selling when it comes to numbers, there have been buyers who wish they would have come up the little bit extra and a lot of sellers who wish they would have been a little more flexible when it comes to accepting an offer.

Generally if you are within 10K of each other on a 100K plus boat something is usually worked out in some way or another, at least in my past experience.

Thank you, very helpful

 

[Russ Calasant]

If you are at your ceiling and the seller is at his basement price, then you have 2 options, and you know what they are. Personally, if we are talking about a 150k+ boat, I can't believe 6k sends you into the poor house. If it does, then you may want to buy less of a boat for a lot less than the 6k difference, or keep your beautiful boat. Please don't misread this as me trying to be a wise-ass. If the boat is exactly what you want and in phenomenal shape and at a good price, then buy the boat! Or maybe it becomes the best deal you never did because something better comes along this winter. You know as well as I do, 6k does not change anything when you own a boat. We're talking a prop or two, or having a diesel guy spend a couple of days working on an engine. Good luck!

Thanks, all good points and well taken. In this situation I want to pay cash and I only have so much to work with while having to allow substantial output to close the deal and perform necessary service. The platform is solid and has my preferred options. So bottom line is that I may be over extending a bit to purchase but we all know that it is the least expensive part. I have the long haul budgeted for. And I am oh so close to fitting this one in to the purchase budget! I guess time will tell.

 

[Russ Calasant]

I think the boat gods are trying to tell you something... You just got your 370 this past season. Save your money and enjoy it for a little while longer before moving up.

Doug

Maybe so Doug! But I didn't just get my 370, I have owned her for 4 years.

 

[douglee25]

Did you just register here this past season? Maybe that's why I thought that.

Doug

Edit - I see December 2009.

 

[Nehalennia]

Well, I spent the last two weeks in a bidding tennis match going back and forth. Quite painful actually. I wish I had good news to report but the owner has stopped and refused to go any lower. We ended up $12k apart on a high six figure number. I came half way and offered $6k more and he is staying at his previous number, now $6k away from my last offer. His broker suggested I wait for winter to settle in. I cannot extend my self any further. I suppose there is not much else I can do but keep looking, this is not all fun. He has dropped 10-11% from asking price and it was a fair starting price. In this climate I expected more flexibility, I guess you never know the circumstance. Is 15-16% too much to ask? Or did I just answer my own question!? Did I miss anything?

You mentioned that you thought the starting price was already fair. Then you mentioned you expected more flexibility. If the boat is in good shape and the Price IS fair + you've been granted the 10-11% you stated, it seems that your are in better than fair shape with the price he is willing to go down to. I know the market is depressed but many of us that would like to move into a bigger or better boat will need to sell one to get there. You don't want to have to give your boat away to reach for the next one. It would seem that you're ready except you were hoping for far better than fair. I understand that in todays climate, but it just may be too unfair.

 

[Carver370]

I guess the question begs to be asked. Are you willing to accept 15-16% off of your current boats asking price to sell her? Can you see yourself getting in this situation when you are dealing with a potential buyer?

This is not a condescending post, just playing devils advocate since I have seen both sides many many times.

 

[douglee25]

I believe Russ already mentioned something about not selling at 'fire sale' pricing on his 370 when the other gentleman wanted to buy.

Doug

 

[Alex F]

Well, I spent the last two weeks in a bidding tennis match going back and forth. Quite painful actually. I wish I had good news to report but the owner has stopped and refused to go any lower. We ended up $12k apart on a high six figure number. I came half way and offered $6k more and he is staying at his previous number, now $6k away from my last offer. His broker suggested I wait for winter to settle in. I cannot extend my self any further. I suppose there is not much else I can do but keep looking, this is not all fun. He has dropped 10-11% from asking price and it was a fair starting price. In this climate I expected more flexibility, I guess you never know the circumstance. Is 15-16% too much to ask? Or did I just answer my own question!? Did I miss anything?

Russ,

Carver370 summed it up pretty well and I agree with most of it. Throw ins are good suggestion, but I wouldn't count on it.

In terms of finding great boat for less, the possibilities are always present, but the chances are low, which is the case most of the time. If you're looking to "steal" one (and I know you're not) you'll have to invest lots of time and effort. In most cases, no one wants to give their boats away and you'll be faced with the same puzzle about 3 months from now when selling your 370DA.

In the end I totally agree that it boils down to this:

...Not to sound like a salesman, but if it is the boat that you actually want to own, 6K in the grand scheme of things doesn't equate to much....

When I was shopping and was $7K apart from 2002 400DB in FL, I asked myself the same question and the boat wasn't worth all the compromises that I had to make. So I backed off. On the other hand, when similar situation occurred in the deal on my 420DB, my wife and I knew 100% that if we are going for 420DB this is the one we need to own. At that point $10K difference and more in hidden costs didn't play a role of a showstopper, b/c in our opinion in the grand schema it was worth it.

So, the answer to the question if this boat is the one will drive your decision. If you loose this one b/c you were off by $6K will you feel sorry?

As for what's the next step, IMO the picture is clear with this boat. You pretty much know the bottom line number, which means that if you meet the number the boat is yours. So, why not wait for another couple of weeks (let the holidays pass), continue searching for other candidates and you'll have better idea where you stand.

BTW, it's possible that the owner is not moving much, b/c he's aware of the fact that there are two surveys (hull and mechanical) are coming and there's a chance that he might have to drop couple of grand to fix functional items. Maybe not, but just a thought. The bottom line here is that you want to feel his position (maybe asking the direct question will be the best thing to do) in case if there's something that will have to be addressed as result of the surveys.

Good luck and hope it works out to your favor,
Alex.

 

[All's Well]

I don't think that it should be about a percentage discount from an asking price but a fair value for that year / model boat.
If you're in the range for what that year / model & condition of a boat is you should be fine. If you're too high and the seller won't budge - move on.
There are fewer 460 DA's on the market right now so maybe the seller thinks he has less competition, who knows.

 

[MonacoMike]

I did say it was a reasonable asking price but didn't say it was what I am willing to pay, it was a good place to start. I am not automatically assuming he would wack off a certain percentage. However when you engage in a two week negotiation, knowing both of the starting points, it's not difficult to figure out where the middle is. If that was unacceptable why continue?

Russ, You are at an impasse that needs to simmer on both sides. If you would not be disappointed if someone bought it for just $6k more than where you are now hold to your position, but if the opposite is true find a way to make it happen. Simple to say hard to wait out.

If you reread your quote above you are having it both ways, you agree it was a "reasonable asking price ", but since the seller wouldn't meet you in the middle, of a figure that you chose, they are being unreasonable. No one is happy with the financials of anything they buy right now, buyers think they pay to much because they heard the market was bad and sellers feel agrieved by low offers. Oh to be a fly on the wall when the seller got your offer, they are trying to sell so any good broker will get them to engage you even if it is remote the two sides will agree. The world is full of buyeres and sellers that did exactly what they said they wouldn't when negoations began in earnest.

Good Luck, MM

 

[Russ Calasant]

You mentioned that you thought the starting price was already fair. Then you mentioned you expected more flexibility. If the boat is in good shape and the Price IS fair + you've been granted the 10-11% you stated, it seems that your are in better than fair shape with the price he is willing to go down to. I know the market is depressed but many of us that would like to move into a bigger or better boat will need to sell one to get there. You don't want to have to give your boat away to reach for the next one. It would seem that you're ready except you were hoping for far better than fair. I understand that in todays climate, but it just may be too unfair.

Hi Todd, yes I did but maybe I should qualify a little better, fair for an asking price. In my mind I expect the seller to be prepared to negotiate, it was a fair place to start. That is why I engaged him after looking at the boat. If you start at $200 and I start at $175, you counter with 195, I respond with 180. Where do you think we are going to end up? 187.50? If that process was spread over 2 weeks and several bids would you have said something earlier if you were not going to agree? Such as I see where this is going but 190 is my bottom. Or if not that okay too, I'm just looking for others opinions. It is certainly the sellers perogative to negotiate however he likes. Turn all this around and consider he is going to let a qualified buyer go, in the winter, over $6k?
No more negotiation?
I'm not in a position to have to give my boat away and am prepared to keep her for sometime but I would like to sell her. Makes no sense to use both of course but it depends on the market, maybe this seller is on the same position. But I do not think that getting so close to the money and meeting half way is "unfair". This is helping me to understand possible sellers perspectives, thank you.

 

[moparlvr4406]

Hi Todd, yes I did but maybe I should qualify a little better, fair for an asking price. In my mind I expect the seller to be prepared to negotiate, it was a fair place to start. That is why I engaged him after looking at the boat. If you start at $200 and I start at $175, you counter with 195, I respond with 180. Where do you think we are going to end up? 187.50? If that process was spread over 2 weeks and several bids would you have said something earlier if you were not going to agree? Such as I see where this is going but 190 is my bottom. Or if not that okay too, I'm just looking for others opinions. It is certainly the sellers perogative to negotiate however he likes. Turn all this around and consider he is going to let a qualified buyer go, in the winter, over $6k?
No more negotiation?
I'm not in a position to have to give my boat away and am prepared to keep her for sometime but I would like to sell her. Makes no sense to use both of course but it depends on the market, maybe this seller is on the same position. But I do not think that getting so close to the money and meeting half way is "unfair". This is helping me to understand possible sellers perspectives, thank you.

just an observation from this post..
you appear to enjoy the "game" of negotiation
some including myself do not
when buying my home I made 3 offers...my lowball...my counter...my final.
had they not come to my final I would have walked and found somewhere else.
and some of us really do price things we sell at what we really want or need out of them for an efficient sale
I am not saying your original offer was not a fair price in your eyes...just saying it wasn't in the sellers

 

[Russ Calasant]

I guess the question begs to be asked. Are you willing to accept 15-16% off of your current boats asking price to sell her? Can you see yourself getting in this situation when you are dealing with a potential buyer?

This is not a condescending post, just playing devils advocate since I have seen both sides many many times.

Excellent question!! Complicated answer, yes and I would advertise her at the appropriate asking price. However if the circumstances were as such I wanted or needed to sell her, didn't need to advertise and didn't have a broker I would be willing to start much lower, negotiate much less and pass on savings to buyer, netting about the same and much less hassle for both. Example, traditional sale I may put her on the market for $109k. If I were approached prior I would offer her at $89k. Being a professional, what is your opinion of this approach?