Sundancer 260 Dies idling in gear

[Chris Carpenter]

Thanks for your reply.

 

[eric260]

Update:

Opened up the pump and the impeller looked fine. Changed it anyway. However, it did not seem to fix the heat issue. Boat ran fine. Was able to cruise around at 1800 rpm all day and in idle with no issues. I am now 95% sure the shut downs are due to excessive heat in the engine compartment. When I ran the motor at 4000 rpm and cruising speed temp creeps up got to about 180 I’d say and would have gone higher if I kept going I think. I didn’t run it long, so I had no issues with ECM and no shut downs. But basically I have low pressure in cooling system still.

With impeller checked and ok’d, where to now? Im planning on pulling thermostat, cus I have one and it’s easy. Any other ideas? Do I start looking for obstructions in water lines? I want to check all low hanging fruit.

 

[Espos4]

Update:

Opened up the pump and the impeller looked fine. Changed it anyway. However, it did not seem to fix the heat issue. Boat ran fine. Was able to cruise around at 1800 rpm all day and in idle with no issues. I am now 95% sure the shut downs are due to excessive heat in the engine compartment. When I ran the motor at 4000 rpm and cruising speed temp creeps up got to about 180 I’d say and would have gone higher if I kept going I think. I didn’t run it long, so I had no issues with ECM and no shut downs. But basically I have low pressure in cooling system still.

With impeller checked and ok’d, where to now? Im planning on pulling thermostat, cus I have one and it’s easy. Any other ideas? Do I start looking for obstructions in water lines? I want to check all low hanging fruit.

Google “Bravoitis” and look at the pictures. Your water inlet hose may be crushed where it enters through the transom. Over time, corrosion builds up and crushed the end of the inlet hose.

 

[eric260]

Google “Bravoitis” and look at the pictures. Your water inlet hose may be crushed where it enters through the transom. Over time, corrosion builds up and crushed the end of the inlet hose.

How would I tell if I have that without taking out drive off? Also, I changed the impeller with boat in the water. There was a lot of water flowing until I plugged it. Don’t know if that says anything

 

[Lazy Daze]

How would I tell if I have that without taking out drive off? Also, I changed the impeller with boat in the water. There was a lot of water flowing until I plugged it. Don’t know if that says anything

Check from the inside - look for the posts/pictures that Espos4 mentioned.

No, the amount coming in doesn't tell us anything - it's an entirely subjective measurement. However, you could do an impeller test - I can check my notes on the exact measurement later - but I've posted about this in the past - you can probably find it through searching and using my name to help narrow it down. But, essentially, you measure the amount of water coming through the inlet hose over a period of time and compare to specs.

There's definitely something going on outside the norm - you should be able to run that boat for 2 hours straight at 4,000RPM with no issues (look at the boats in my sig).

 

[eric260]

Check from the inside - look for the posts/pictures that Espos4 mentioned.

No, the amount coming in doesn't tell us anything - it's an entirely subjective measurement. However, you could do an impeller test - I can check my notes on the exact measurement later - but I've posted about this in the past - you can probably find it through searching and using my name to help narrow it down. But, essentially, you measure the amount of water coming through the inlet hose over a period of time and compare to specs.

There's definitely something going on outside the norm - you should be able to run that boat for 2 hours straight at 4,000RPM with no issues (look at the boats in my sig).

Thank you. Any other recommendations before checking for bravoitis? Someone mentioned backflushing the system.

 

[OllieC]

I'm curious as well. I had the same issue happening a couple of weeks ago. Temp got to about 130º, then a beep like at startup and shut off. I restarted and in 30 seconds it would beep and shutdown again. I found if I advanced the throttle, the beep happened, it tried to die, but recovered. I figured it was the IAC, so I had a spare, replaced it and it went away. However it came back one time after the IAC install. Then I discovered I had plug wires 5 & 7 crossed and corrected it. Also, I was missing a piece of sea pump gasket and the sea pump was leaking like a sieve.
Once I repaired those other things, I had it on the muffs multiple times, up to temperature and have had no beep. Haven't had it out on the water yet, so I'm hoping it's solved.

I also replaced the EIM with a Flounder Pounder replacement, so I'm hoping its not electrical.

I replaced the following;

1. New Risers, Manifolds and Elbows
2. New Starter
3. New plugs, wires and coil.
4. New thermostat 160º
5. New Belt
6. New Flounder Pounder Switch Panel
7. New Hardin Sea Pump rebuild kit x2 (screwed a gasket up)
8. New IAC after beep and shutdown

 

[liv2ryde100]

How hot are the manifolds getting when you are running? U should be able to put your hand on them and not burn them. I’ve heard of issues where the manifolds fail and water crosses over and gets in the motor which could cause all these funny issues. Pull the dipstick and see if u have water in the oil. Also while running check and make sure the water pickup hose isn’t compressing on itself restricting flow. Have seen this happen also. U can’t see this happen until h start running at speed and then the hose just collapses on itself preventing water flow

 

[OllieC]

Not sure what the other posters have, but I have dry-joint risers and elbows which prevents water intrusion into the manifold.
Also had Bravoitis in 2011 and was repaired.

edit: I guess I’ll find out this weekend if it’s okay and was just a fluke from a combo of the items I mentioned in my last post.

 

[eric260]

How hot are the manifolds getting when you are running? U should be able to put your hand on them and not burn them. I’ve heard of issues where the manifolds fail and water crosses over and gets in the motor which could cause all these funny issues. Pull the dipstick and see if u have water in the oil. Also while running check and make sure the water pickup hose isn’t compressing on itself restricting flow. Have seen this happen also. U can’t see this happen until h start running at speed and then the hose just collapses on itself preventing water flow

I’ve only put my hand on the manifold while a bit above idle in neutral at the dock. Didn’t feel hot at all, but at that rpm gauges are all good. I’d have to run it hard to check in the hose and put hands on manifold when it starts to get high in the temp gauge. I don’t really have anyone who can drive while I do that. I wouldn’t trust my wife to drive or to stick her hand around a moving engine

 

[eric260]

How hot are the manifolds getting when you are running? U should be able to put your hand on them and not burn them. I’ve heard of issues where the manifolds fail and water crosses over and gets in the motor which could cause all these funny issues. Pull the dipstick and see if u have water in the oil. Also while running check and make sure the water pickup hose isn’t compressing on itself restricting flow. Have seen this happen also. U can’t see this happen until h start running at speed and then the hose just collapses on itself preventing water flow

And no water in the oil

 

[89P270]

Read through this string. The alarm shutting down into guardian is a low water pressure like suggested or high temp. With High temp the audible is typically a continuous alarm. Definitely a partially plugged cooling line from Bravo to Impeller can cause this feature. Know that the bravo III cooling line goes from 1 an 1/4 inch to 5/8 through transom back to 1 and 1/4 to engine impeller. this is commonly referred to Bravoitis because it makes the outdrives run hot. If the outdrive was improperly installed (not uncommon by professional mechanics in a hurry) it can cause the overheating at higher RPM. Thats what happened to me but I didnt know til the outdrive was removed. The other thing I am suspicious of are the manifolds. You need to get an infrared temp gun from Harbor Freight ($24 I think) and measure the risers and other areas of the engine. Check the oil filter housing too. Oil should be higher temp than engine but not significant. Example, engine at 165 oil filter at say 190ish. If >205, Id say some kind of engine cooling issue. Check lots of spots on the risers too. Should be consistently same temp across the board. if hot spots, could be the risers getting too hot.

 

[eric260]

Read through this string. The alarm shutting down into guardian is a low water pressure like suggested or high temp. With High temp the audible is typically a continuous alarm. Definitely a partially plugged cooling line from Bravo to Impeller can cause this feature. Know that the bravo III cooling line goes from 1 an 1/4 inch to 5/8 through transom back to 1 and 1/4 to engine impeller. this is commonly referred to Bravoitis because it makes the outdrives run hot. If the outdrive was improperly installed (not uncommon by professional mechanics in a hurry) it can cause the overheating at higher RPM. Thats what happened to me but I didnt know til the outdrive was removed. The other thing I am suspicious of are the manifolds. You need to get an infrared temp gun from Harbor Freight ($24 I think) and measure the risers and other areas of the engine. Check the oil filter housing too. Oil should be higher temp than engine but not significant. Example, engine at 165 oil filter at say 190ish. If >205, Id say some kind of engine cooling issue. Check lots of spots on the risers too. Should be consistently same temp across the board. if hot spots, could be the risers getting too hot.

Thanks for the write up. A few things on this.
1. I had a tech come to the boat and hook up to computer. There were no stored alarms for low water pressure from what he said. However, while running the motor with computer hooked up, we went up to about 1500-2000 rpm (this is a guess, I didn’t pay good attention) and water psi was 1.5. By He said it should be closer to 3 psi at that rpm. His conclusion was that I did not have enough water pressure to keep motor cool at higher rpms.
2) my understanding is the water pressure sensor is on the power steering cooler. This comes right after the raw water pump from what I can see. So wouldn’t the restriction causing my low PSI have to be before the sensor? And if that is the case, it makes me think it has to be pinched at the transom. Or perhaps the hose is collapsing as others have said. Is it possible to have blockage upstream from the sensor that would cause my psi to be low?

 

[OllieC]

Well, I took mine out it beeped and stalled but caught itself because of the higher RPM. Then it did it a few more times immediately. I almost turned in, and the “viola” it stopped and ran perfectly. We ran around the bay for about 20 mins at different speeds and it seems the gremlin may have gone away. I’m still a little gun shy about taking her out too far yet, not bowing what the cause was.
I did notice low water pressure during idle (2lbs’ish) and the needle didn’t move much when increasing the throttle, but then all of a sudden, after the beeping and shutdown happened a couple of times, I noticed the water pressure increasing under load and it went away. Maybe that was the issue?

 

[eric260]

Changed out Thermostat. Doesn’t seem to have changed anything. Looks awful in there. This normal? See pic. Also, think the exhaust manifolds, at least one of them, are to blame. Left side was hot to touch, 190-200 on temp gun when I was at 2000 rpms.

 

[eric260]

Changed out Thermostat. Doesn’t seem to have changed anything. Looks awful in there. This normal? See pic. Also, think the exhaust manifolds, at least one of them, are to blame. Left side was hot to touch, 190-200 on temp gun when I was at 2000 rpms.

Oh but forgot to add, risers were nice and cool to touch. Only manifolds we’re hot

 

[OllieC]

Update - still doing it I’m driving in circles in the bay. It beeps stalls, and then continues on if I’m at 1100 rpm. Then drops down to 1000 after the beep and stall. This sucks

 

[eric260]

Update - still doing it I’m driving in circles in the bay. It beeps stalls, and then continues on if I’m at 1100 rpm. Then drops down to 1000 after the beep and stall. This sucks

Might be an ECM issue? Whipple in Fresno will diagnose it for $100 if you mail it to them. Then like $600 to fix if they can. I am going to have mine checked out if I ever get the thing to run cool again. Worst part is wife is not happy about not being able to use boat!

 

[OllieC]

It’s weird -if I’m around 2k rpm it’s fine. I I just replaced the IAC could I have replaced it with another bad one? Boat does seem a little sluggish, but that could just be me.

 

[scoflaw]

OEM IAC ? Automotive ones sometimes don't work.

 

[liv2ryde100]

Changed out Thermostat. Doesn’t seem to have changed anything. Looks awful in there. This normal? See pic. Also, think the exhaust manifolds, at least one of them, are to blame. Left side was hot to touch, 190-200 on temp gun when I was at 2000 rpms.

Is this raw water housing with impeller? Or thermostat housing