Should Apple Decrypt the San Bernardino iPhone?

For those of you who think that those of us who oppose the govt's attempts to get Apple to unlock their phone must not support law enforcement, think again. I was a cop for 15 years. Few are a stronger supporter of law enforcement and LEO's than I am.

That being said, I believe the govt has zero right to force Apple to unlock the phones. Lord only knows where the govt spies will run with the unlocking tools when they have them. Govt has already shown many times that they cannot be trusted to respect our privacy. For those of you who have any lingering doubts about how widespread our govt's spying is, I suggest you peruse this article from the BBC.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-23123964

The spying and data collection go much further than the NSA eavesdropping on a few of our conversations.

I support Apple's refusal to bend over for the cops. It's none of their damned business what I have on my phone, my computer, my camera, etc. I have nothing to hide but stay the hell out of my life.
 
Random thoughts...

The "phones" in question are not just phones they are computers, information storage devices, connections to your bank, doctor, accountant and attorney.

The framers of our Constitution were unreal geniuses. It still is relevant.

I cannot believe the number of people that don't understand the importance of the 4th amendment.

Nor the fifth for that matter.

Encryption is simply a digital safe. It has never been against the law to safeguard ones valuables. And that really is what this is about.

A poor hacker could locate a typical CSR member in a short time. UNLESS, one has taken significant steps to hide their identity.

Constitutionally the government listening to your voluntary conversation over the radio waves of a cell phone is far different than opening your phone to get private data you did not transmit.

The phone is "lawfully compliant" for use on US networks. It is the security encryption for information storage that is in dispute.

The iPhone is selling like crazy in China, wonder why?

Is the US government pressuring Apple for China?

Data collection by the government that would have quickly been stopped 25 years ago is now purchased from private companies without much a whimper.

You can add your own random thoughts...

MM
 
War Eagle said:
Privacy is what YOU make of it! (For the life of me I cannot understand the attraction of FaceBook.)

IMHO devices which use public utilities (like the cell phone RF spectrum) should not legally be designed to provide blanket protection for those who would use them to facilitate illegal acts. Kinda stupid on our part don't you think?

This is not about "phones" but the security of the storage portion of the device.

If you are smart and you have something to keep private, its really not a problem. Encryption ain't a new idea.

If you are a bad guy and you are dumb enough to leave your tracks on a cell phone ... you get what you deserve ... in the case of terrorist ... a short piece of rope!

Why do we think we have to make it easy for them to kill us all!

The constitutional framers thought it important to not make it so easy to convict without a high bar of proof for justice.

Wonder how Cook would feel if the dirty bomb goes off in the Apple Lobby.

One last question, why should anyone make profit while facilitating the destruction of the system that made it possible in the first place!

Is building a safe that would destroy its contents to protect ones valuable information "facilitating the destruction of the system"?
Click to expand...

See responses in RED above.

MM
 
I think a significant part of this is a government agency compelling a corporation to change its product without law.

We are seeing this run amok.
 
Not to throw gas on a low fire but I've got to ask.

If the City owns the phone, doesn't it own the property within it?

Maybe im just brain dead from doing taxes, I don't know

one last note, if this was a Facebook based forum, I wouldn't be here!
 
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dwna1a said:
Not to throw gas on a low fire but I've got to ask.

If the City owns the phone, doesn't it own the property within it?
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I would guess that the answer to that question would be "Yes", however it was the city's choice to buy that make/model phone. Maybe they should have done a bit of research on the encryption capabilities of that phone before they handed it out to their employees.

Yes, the own the data. No, they cannot access the data. Sort of a "Catch 22", isn't it.
 
dwna1a said:
Not to throw gas on a low fire but I've got to ask.

If the City owns the phone, doesn't it own the property within it?
Click to expand...

Yes, they own it. That is how the investigators got the backup from Apple. It is the same as if you forgot your password, Apple would tell you they cannot access your phone, no matter how you proved you owned it


MM
 
dwna1a said:
Not to throw gas on a low fire but I've got to ask.

If the City owns the phone, doesn't it own the property within it?
Click to expand...

And the proolem is that they were so dumb they didn't know how to,administer that phone. Apple makes a software package that is free to download for institutions to administer their iPhones. That would have allowed unlock, wipe, lock, change passcodes, etc. remotely. The Country didn't use that software and instead issued the phones blindly to employees to use as they wish.

Like Army Intelligence, Government Intelligence is an oxymoron.

Gene
 
Thanks MM for your comments - I've added my followup in blue :



Privacy is what YOU make of it! (For the life of me I cannot understand the attraction of FaceBook.)

IMHO devices which use public utilities (like the cell phone RF spectrum) should not legally be designed to provide blanket protection for those who would use them to facilitate illegal acts. Kinda stupid on our part don't you think?

This is not about "phones" but the security of the storage portion of the device.

In a most technically narrow sense that's true - but I suggest that the data of interest contained in that protected storage is most likely the detail and content of communications carried out over the public networks. My argument is that because the data most likely of interest was generated by the use of the "phone" over a public network it should be accessible by the court via provisions also provided in the constitution.

If you are smart and you have something to keep private, its really not a problem. Encryption ain't a new idea.

If you are a bad guy and you are dumb enough to leave your tracks on a cell phone ... you get what you deserve ... in the case of terrorist ... a short piece of rope!

Why do we think we have to make it easy for them to kill us all!

The constitutional framers thought it important to not make it so easy to convict without a high bar of proof for justice.

Agreed, as it should be, and limited unreasonable search and seizure. But they also provided for "probable cause" search warrants.

Wonder how Cook would feel if the dirty bomb goes off in the Apple Lobby.

One last question, why should anyone make profit while facilitating the destruction of the system that made it possible in the first place!

Is building a safe that would destroy its contents to protect ones valuable information "facilitating the destruction of the system"?

Answer is YES if that "valuable information" is widely shared across a fanatical criminal enterprise whose goal is to destroy all those who refuse to kneel to their demands .... and should that safe fall in to the hands of those who could prevent an armageddon but don't ...for lack of access.

Let me close this by saying I am sympathetic with the privacy/slippery slope arguments in this matter. In a perfect World I would be the first to defend absolute privacy. But this is not a perfect World.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) I have lived and worked in the heart of the Islamic world for several years and I can tell you it would be a serious mistake to underestimate these ISIS folks. If they get their hands on a WMD - THEY WILL USE IT! Make no mistake about it.

I have also walked the streets of Nagasaki and Hiroshima (what was left) and I can tell you with absolutely no hesitation ... I'll give a little on privacy to keep that from ever happening in this country.

Apple should open the phone and stop building ubiquitous devices that with "no conscious effort" thwart legitimate search warrants. IF they don't we need some new legislation.

If an individual wants to add encryption to one device - that's another issue.

W
 
So - do we think that the bad guys sent a huge PDF document with their overall plans to the phone?

history has shown - they are very compartmentalized.

WSJ has an article that came out tonight that said the Justice department had 12 other phones that they wanted to break...
 
In the beginning I was thinking why not just give them the information. Then I start thinking about it, reading more in the news and here (smarter group than the media!) and my opinion has climbed the fence and jumped over. Our information is private unless you threaten this country. Opening a back door as much as not providing the information. With all of this considered, I say no, to forcing a private company to alter their product to allow the Gubment to access data. Be careful what you wish for. We know who did it, we know they were tied with certain groups and people, find them, kill them.
 
Whether I agree with opening the phone or not is not an issue to me. The fact that Apple is defying a court order pi$$es me off! Like big banks and other corporations they just get away with breaking rules and laws. BS
 
Gary Hill said:
Whether I agree with opening the phone or not is not an issue to me. The fact that Apple is defying a court order pi$$es me off! Like big banks and other corporations they just get away with breaking rules and laws. BS
Click to expand...

It's not about breaking the rules because they're a big corporation. They're standing up for a principal and they're challenging the order legally. If they give into the demand it sets a very dangerous precedent that the government can order private companies to alter their products to suite the governments needs.

If you were personally presented with a court order you could appeal it and challenge just as Apple is doing.
 
Strypes said:
Huge. HUGE difference. Do you know who I am? Could you find me on here if you did know who I was?
Click to expand...

Anyone with a few skills could find you if they wanted just from the information published here.
 
Strypes said:
Huge. HUGE difference.

Do you know who I am? Could you find me on here if you did know who I was?
Click to expand...

How much personal info would like to have posted? I would never do it, but that's the point of this thread....your information is your information.

With only 5 minutes of research I was able to find out where you live, what you do for a living, the marina where you keep your boat, which pier and the slip #, your boats name, your dock neighbor, the year/make/model of your boat, your boating affiliations. That is plenty of information to get me your name, address, phone # and cell #.

Creepy, huh? With another 5 minutes of research I could call you on your cell phone.

I don't have the time or interest in stalking people but I'm illustrating a point. This is how I feel about the government or a hacker gaining access to a back door in my device. My info is very public so I don't make any attempts at staying anonymous online but when it comes to my cell phone....that's nobody's business but my own.

http://www.boatingsuite.com/about/
 
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Since the phone belongs to the County....not the Terrorist, it should be opened if the County says open it! A work phone should never be considered private!
 
Tonka Boater said:
How much personal info would like to have posted? I would never do it, but that's the point of this thread....your information is your information.

With only 5 minutes of research I was able to find out where you live, what you do for a living, the marina where you keep your boat, which pier and the slip #, your boats name, your dock neighbor, the year/make/model of your boat, your boating affiliations. That is plenty of information to get me your name, address, phone # and cell #.

Creepy, huh? With another 5 minutes of research I could call you on your cell phone.

I don't have the time or interest in stalking people but I'm illustrating a point. This is how I feel about the government or a hacker gaining access to a back door in my device. My info is very public so I don't make any attempts at staying anonymous online but when it comes to my cell phone....that's nobody's business but my own.

http://www.boatingsuite.com/about/
Click to expand...


All that doesn't bother me at all! I believe that anything you found is public knowledge.

If someone is desperate enough to find my info, address or phone number, because they need to get a hold of me that badly, they're more than welcome to stop on by or give me a call! I've got nothing, nothing to hide!

Now, in your searches of me, you were to find out that I had plans to rape and pillage a town, or run down somebody with my boat or car, or go on a killing spree, or harm myself, wouldn't you do something about it or contact the proper authorities? Or would you just let "nature" take it's course?



Cheers
 
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